First, let me say that I'm super-excited to see the Oracle class. I started to design a class several years ago to fill this niche but never got it quite where I wanted it. The Favored Soul had some of what I wanted, but too much of what I didn't. Then the Oracle comes along, and it's got just about everything--even the flavor text is almost exactly what I had in mind for my class (which I was going to call the Hermit).
The only downside for me is I don't like the Cleric BAB progression ... in my campaign, I never thought of this class as melee-oriented at all. I thought of them as mostly being good for NPCs, filling the role of mysterious stranger living alone in the woods as a source of mystic knowledge, but maybe also an interesting choice for a PC, if the player in question was experienced and looking for a challenge. The class would mainly be a source of utility spells, buffs, and knowledge ... perhaps a bit of healing, but mainly a non-combatant.
So the Oracle for me is very close, especially with the flexibility afforded by foci (although I do agree with another thread that "focus" is really not the right word to use here). But I would like to do a bit of tweaking. Now, I certainly wouldn't want to force my vision of the class on anyone, but I do want to be able to adapt the class for my purposes. So what I was pondering is a set of alternative class features, similar to what's proposed in the Unearthed Arcana (the more recent one, which is, I believe, primarily composed of open gaming content). ISTR reading that the APB would (might?) include something along those lines for the other classes, so I'd like to propose one for the Oracle. What do folks think of this?
Lose: Cleric BAB, d8 hit dice, shield proficiency.
Gain: Wizard BAB, d6 hit dice, good Fortitude save, good Reflex save, Oracular Knowledge (works exactly like Bardic Knowledge).
Does this seem balanced? It takes the Oracle firmly out of the melee camp, returns to the "all good saves" idea of being protected by the gods (like the Favored Soul), and tosses in some mysterious divine knowledge, which fits with the class name. I'm going to try this out as an NPC and see how it goes, but I wondered if others had any thoughts as well.
Your ideas work for an oracle that represents something relatively inoffensive, such as an Oracle of Knowledge. But why would an oracle with a focus such as Strength (assuming that becomes a focus) be exceptionally knowledgable? Also, you just cut the BAB and HD of the oracle. How will an oracle with the Battle focus function?
Your version of the oracle (I note you took pieces of the cloistered cleric, always fun) might do well when a Knowledge focus becomes available. I'd playtest it up into higher levels; I'm still playing a cloistered cleric now converted to Pathfinder and I'd like to hear what differences come up.
From a power-gamers standpoint, I don't see medium BAB and a loss of a hit die to be worth bardic knowledge and 3 good saves.
That's just me personally, though. Giving them some extra oomph would help, since they're much more fragile now.
Your ideas work for an oracle that represents something relatively inoffensive, such as an Oracle of Knowledge. But why would an oracle with a focus such as Strength (assuming that becomes a focus) be exceptionally knowledgable? Also, you just cut the BAB and HD of the oracle. How will an oracle with the Battle focus function?
Oh, you're definitely right that not all foci would work with this. But that's why I wanted it be something optional rather than a new take on the class.
Your version of the oracle (I note you took pieces of the cloistered cleric, always fun) might do well when a Knowledge focus becomes available. I'd playtest it up into higher levels; I'm still playing a cloistered cleric now converted to Pathfinder and I'd like to hear what differences come up.
Yes, a knowledge-type focus was exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of. I'm working on a Secrets Focus myself right now.
I'd suggest that you just wait and see what the full class is like. It is very possible that version of the oracle will do something along those lines, (like the Ballte Oracle can get armor).
Well, I doubt that the full version of Oracle will include different BAB progressions, as that hasn't ever occurred before in any product from a major gaming company, at least that I'm aware of. But if the APG will include alternate classes such as UA did, then perhaps.
From a power-gamers standpoint, I don't see medium BAB and a loss of a hit die to be worth bardic knowledge and 3 good saves.
That's just me personally, though. Giving them some extra oomph would help, since they're much more fragile now.
Okay, that's what I feared. Perhaps I need to up their hit points somehow ... my original conception (i.e. before Pathfinder) had them at d8's, but I don't want to break the BAB-HD tying thing that PF has going on now. But I'll ponder something along those lines.
Thanx.
Honestly, if you wanna push the "full caster" route, metamagic feats/tricks aren't a bad idea.
Honestly, if you wanna push the "full caster" route, metamagic feats/tricks aren't a bad idea.
Hmmm ... what exactly did you have in mind?
I know it's different but I see no reason why the "Battle Oracle" couldn't have 3/4 Bab as part of his "package".
I know it's different but I see no reason why the "Battle Oracle" couldn't have 3/4 Bab as part of his "package".
Well, as presented, my idea is that the standard Oracle does have 3/4 BAB. As an option, you could choose the "Studious Oracle" or somesuch (actually, following the UA model, they wouldn't even have alternate names, but personally I like having them be distinguishable from the standard class names in some way) and get the 1/2 BAB + other stuff.
Maybe my attempt to shoehorn the Bardic Knowledge feature here is ill-conceived. Probably I should make that a revelation in the Secrets Focus that I'm working on and add something else here. Something to help keep them alive ... extra HP is so banal though ... ooh, how about giving them the damage reduction of a Barbarian? The only bad part is that it doesn't kick in until higher levels ...
Still pondering.
I was thinking 1/2 bab as standard and then increasing that to 3/4 for Battle Oracle.
How about hit points linked to bab. 2xBAB [or 3x, 4x] extra hit points, that way the Battle Oracle would get more because his BAB went up from 1/2 BAB to 3/4 BAB?