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I've never played an game like this before... ever. I know enough to understand the basic function of playing a game like this, but some of the terms and stats are going way over my head. Like what is the difference between hit points and hit dice? Skeletons, for example have a HP of 4 (1d8). My only guess is that I can either let the Skeleton have 4 hp, or have 1d8 hp. Or maybe I'm supposed to add 1d8 to 4 to get the total hp? I'm totally lost. I've been scrutinizing the "example of play" on page 13 of the core rulebook, and another thing I don't really get is where the DC 15 Will saving throw comes from. Does the 15 come from the skeletons stat block? Or does this come from the Paladin's channel positive energy? And finally, when I dove even deeper I found that channel positive energy uses two of the lay on hands ability, which doesn't allow the Undead a saving throw... If someone could just explain some of this to me, I would really appreciate it. I've heard so much about this game, and I love the books I've bought so far, I just want to finally understand some of it.
I've never played an game like this before... ever. I know enough to understand the basic function of playing a game like this, but some of the terms and stats are going way over my head. Like what is the difference between hit points and hit dice? Skeletons, for example have a HP of 4 (1d8). My only guess is that I can either let the Skeleton have 4 hp, or have 1d8 hp. Or maybe I'm supposed to add 1d8 to 4 to get the total hp? I'm totally lost. I've been scrutinizing the "example of play" on page 13 of the core rulebook, and another thing I don't really get is where the DC 15 Will saving throw comes from. Does the 15 come from the skeletons stat block? Or does this come from the Paladin's channel positive energy? And finally, when I dove even deeper I found that channel positive energy uses two of the lay on hands ability, which doesn't allow the Undead a saving throw... If someone could just explain some of this to me, I would really appreciate it. I've heard so much about this game, and I love the books I've bought so far, I just want to finally understand some of it.
Hit Points
Hit Dice are the dice that could be rolled for HP. For the Bestiary stats, for quick game play, the creatures have average HP. So for skeletons you can either use the 4HP they list, or in the alternative roll a 1d8 (their Hit Die). For more complex monsters with other modifiers to their HP, it can be quite complex to roll the HP and add everything in (even Paizo made a few rare errors in the HP stats). Its usually easier to just take the listed HP's.Channel Energy
The DC15 would be from the paladin's channel energy ability, which is calculated as 10 + 1/2 the paladin's level (rounded down) + Charisma Modifier. So if Seelah was a 6th level paladin with a 14 Charisma (+2 modifier), then her DC would be (10 + 3 + 2 = 15).
Lay on Hands
Lay on Hands and Channel Energy are 2 different abilities. If you use 2 Lay on Hands uses, then you can Channel Positive Energy as per the normal Channel Energy rules (you do not gain any of the Lay on Hands benefits, including the undead effect you mentioned). Essentially, you Channel Energy instead of using Lay on Hands. This was just an easier mechanic to reference rather than saying you get "x" amount of "divine points" per day, in which you can use 1 divine point to Lay on Hands or 2 divine points to Channel Energy.
Pathfinder
I won't lie, this system is somewhat complex and it really helps to have other people around to bounce questions off of. It can be a very fun system though, but never be afraid to house-rule something. This forum is a great place though for bouncing questions off of, so feel free to keep the questions coming. Everyone here is quite helpful so I'm sure you'll have no problems with getting help / clarifications. It is unlikely people will jump over you for asking a "silly question", and if someone does, there will be about a dozen people jumping on them for doing that :) Its a good community here with the added bonus of having the Paizo staff actively posting here as well.
Congrats on giving Pathfinder a try! Try not to get too overwhelmed, but there is a lot to learn. Once you have caught up to the learning curve required, you will then see this game has a lot to offer most any playing style. (Some people prefer combat intensive sessions, where-as others prefer more roleplaying interaction). Which ever your style is, Pathfinder accommodates.
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Ok, great! :) I think I got the Hit Dice thing down now, thanks for the help, and the kind welcoming! I also understand the Channel Energy Spell now, so that's a huge help. One more thing I can think of now is "touch" and "flat-footed." I understand that if we begin a round and my initiative is higher and I attack you before you've had a chance to do anything, your AC is flat-footed... at least I'm pretty sure. My question is what is touch AC and when is it used as opposed to the regular AC?
Assuming the regular AC is used after one round of battle, is that when the modifiers are used? A skeleton's AC is listed as: AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural). What do the modifiers mean and when are they used?
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Ok, great! :) I think I got the Hit Dice thing down now, thanks for the help, and the kind welcoming! I also understand the Channel Energy Spell now, so that's a huge help. One more thing I can think of now is "touch" and "flat-footed." I understand that if we begin a round and my initiative is higher and I attack you before you've had a chance to do anything, your AC is flat-footed... at least I'm pretty sure. My question is what is touch AC and when is it used as opposed to the regular AC?
Assuming the regular AC is used after one round of battle, is that when the modifiers are used? A skeleton's AC is listed as: AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural). What do the modifiers mean and when are they used?
The modifiers are how the AC gets calculated. They're like the hit dice in the entry. They're there for when you want to customise the creature. If you want to use it as is, don't worry about them too much.
Touch AC is when a touch attack is made. This is a special type of attack, usually the result of a magic spell such as Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch, where just touching the creature is enough, rather than hitting it hard enough to get through their armour/tough skin. It does not include natural armour, armour or shield bonuses. As the Skeletons's AC contains +4 from armour and natural armour, it's touch AC is four less.
You're correct on flat-footed, but that AC also applies when you're unaware of an attack, such as from an invisible or stealthed attacker. It ignores Dexterity modifiers (+2 in this case).
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Gotcha! Thanks for the help! I've started to take lots of notes as I read through the rulebook, but I have another basic question. This probably applies to roleplaying in general, but as a GM, would you ever establish a minimum ability score to prevent a player from having to use a 3, when they've already rolled 4 or 5 decent ability scores? My thought was that 7 would be a good number, since it's pretty easy to get using the standard method, and it's modifier is only and -2. What do you guys think?
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Gotcha! Thanks for the help! I've started to take lots of notes as I read through the rulebook, but I have another basic question. This probably applies to roleplaying in general, but as a GM, would you ever establish a minimum ability score to prevent a player from having to use a 3, when they've already rolled 4 or 5 decent ability scores? My thought was that 7 would be a good number, since it's pretty easy to get using the standard method, and it's modifier is only and -2. What do you guys think?
It is suggested in point-buy that you are only allowed to buy down to 7 (although ability modifier can reduce it further). But if you're rolling for it, I'm of the 'let the dice fall where they may' school of DMing. I'd recommend using the point-buy in the book as rolling can produce characters of very different power levels which makes the job of balancing encounters trickier.
So, to answer the question, no, I personally wouldn't, but it's not a terrible idea and won't make the game fall apart if you do. 7 would seem to be a reasonable place to set it, if you're going to do that.
Hi avgbountyhunter, and welcome to Pathfinder!
To answer your question re: ability scores the simple answer is 'whatever you feel is fair'. I personally hit upon the following method (though I can't recall if it's in the Core Rulebook or not).
Whenever my players roll their ability scores (and I prefer them to roll rather than point-buy), I allow them to bin the lot and re-roll if the total modifiers from all ability scores adds up to -1 or less.
For example, 14, 13, 16, 9, 8, 7 would add up to +2, +1, +3, -1, -1, -2 = +2, so that would be okay. Whereas 9, 15, 8, 10, 9, 11 would add up to -1, +2, -1, +0, -1, +0 = -1 so that would allow a re-roll.
Hope that helps.
Babbage
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Hmmm, I'll have to think about it. I like the idea of using dice but the purchase system would let players make the character they want to make every time. I also really like the system BabbageUK uses. I'm actually leaning towards it. Thanks for the input and I'm sure I'll have more questions later!
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Avgbouintyhunte. Welocme to the game.
You are going to find lots of advice, bushels of advice, more advice then you can shake a stick at.
As for generating ability scores? I personally prefer rolling the dice. Particularly prefer die rolling if it is a “home” game where you are getting together with your friends.
The method we use is this we roll 4d6 per ability score. That’s rolling the six sided die 4 times (or rolling 4 six sided dies at once), and we drop the lowest number. If anyone rolls a 1 on the die, we re roll it. You add up the highest three numbers to generate a random number between 3 and 18.
Once a player has generated six scores, he can assign them to his character’s ability scores as desired.
Three things to remember:
1) Is everyone (yourself included) having fun?
2) Don’t worry about getting things wrong. We all do, even after playing this game in one incarnation or another after 30 years. Just make your best guess at the time and look it up later.
3) A DM’s best friend the +2 or -2 modifier to a roll.
Oh and I almost forgot
4) take a look at page 396 of the Pathfinder rull book, top lefthand collum. It gives you an excellent description of DMing.
Oh DM= Dungoen Master = GM = Game Master. The two terms mean the same thing.
Good luck, and please ask us lots of questions. We will do our best to share with you a little of our own confusion.
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Some advice, if you're new and your players are as well:
Get your players to read through the rules as well.
When I started GMing it was with some good friends and I learnt a huge amount that I had missed from them saying: "I think that's supposed to work like this..."
Players will especially be hotter than you on what their characters can do, which lets them be specialists, giving you hints about certain areas of the game.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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what is touch AC and when is it used as opposed to the regular AC?
Touch AC = Normal AC - your Armour Bonus to AC - your Shield Bonus to AC - your Natural Bonus to AC.
My thought was that 7 would be a good number, since it's pretty easy to get using the standard method, and it's modifier is only and -2. What do you guys think?
The point buy system in the 3.p book has a minimum, I think it might be 7. It would be recommended that a player not have less than that?
Pointbuy is nice, since rolled methods are inherently unfair.
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So I'm creating a character now. I've had to do it off and on all day, but it's coming along. I've been reading about skills, and feats, and gear, and everything, and I have a few more questions.
I've started a human fighter because I figured it would be the easiest as far as just working everything out. I generated my ability scores, and added 2 to one of them for my race.
I assumed that the d10 listed next to Hit Die meant that I roll a d10 to get my HP, so I got an 8. Am I supposed to add to this, or do I just get 8?
I think I have skills and skill ranks and skill class bonus down, and feats and bonus feats were pretty easy to figure out.
How to I determine my DR?
When determining AC, I realize I first need to get some Armor and maybe a shield, but do humans have any natural armor? And if not what race does? I couldn't really find anything about natural armor.
I'm not sure I understand Encumbrance Effects either. If I have a medium load, what exactly does this do?
Thank you all for the continued help and welcoming!
I assumed that the d10 listed next to Hit Die meant that I roll a d10 to get my HP, so I got an 8. Am I supposed to add to this, or do I just get 8?
Welcome to Pathfinder! According to Pathfinder Core Rulebook page 12: Hit Point (hp): ... A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Dice roll is for a character class level. (in your case you have fighter characater class, after 1st level you roll your hp.)
Hmmm, I'll have to think about it. I like the idea of using dice but the purchase system would let players make the character they want to make every time. I also really like the system BabbageUK uses. I'm actually leaning towards it. Thanks for the input and I'm sure I'll have more questions later!
Hi Avg, I bought the 3.5 Player's Handbook when I was 16 and thought myself the game too. I made so, so many mistakes, so your doing the right thing asking here.
I can't emphasise enough how much I think buying the stats are. It puts everyone on a level playing field, and they get to choose how thier character progresses, the only random aspect of your character then is hp gained from Hit Dice, which I'd probably just standardise if my players didn't love it. This doesn't take away from variation in characters and customisability, it enhances it my opinion, so I'd seriously reccomend point-buy! And paizo's version is very elegant.
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Thanks for the help! And I'm starting to understand why the purchase system is so attractive right now and by the time I actually have a game going, I will probably be using it. :) I don't think encumbrance is something I'll be using off the bat, but what about Lift Over Head, Lift off ground, and Drag or Push? I can see myself wanting to use these actions, but how do I determine the weight for each one?
That's all I can muster right now, but I'm sure I'll have more questions later!
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Thanks for the help! And I'm starting to understand why the purchase system is so attractive right now and by the time I actually have a game going, I will probably be using it. :) I don't think encumbrance is something I'll be using off the bat, but what about Lift Over Head, Lift off ground, and Drag or Push? I can see myself wanting to use these actions, but how do I determine the weight for each one?
That's all I can muster right now, but I'm sure I'll have more questions later!
If you are not using the encumbrance system then it is up to the GM and whether they feel that what you are trying to do is reasonable. Don't get too caught up in having a rule for everything that the game stops being fun - it's ok to just make stuff up :)
In case you haven't found it yet, the rules are available here on-line and are well hyperlinked which helps with looking up the meaning of 'stuff'.
.. and also, welcome.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1) I assumed that the d10 listed next to Hit Die meant that I roll a d10 to get my HP, so I got an 8. Am I supposed to add to this, or do I just get 8?
2) How to I determine my DR?
3) do humans have any natural armor?
4) If I have a medium load, what exactly does this do?
1) Ask your DM about 1st level, most of the time 1st level is maxed HP so for "d10 hit dice" that is a roll of 10. You add your CON modifier (+ or -) to each Hit Dice. You may also add +1 from favored class each level you choose HP over Skills with your favored class (assuming you take a level in your favored class.)
2) Do you have DR? If so, it tells you what it is.
3) No. Unless you are playing with a race that has NA, you have +0 NA. Amulet of Natural Armour can give you +1 NA.
4) If you have medium load you are reduced in speed and often you suffer additional penalties as if you had medium armour.
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I've been working on this character and I'd like for all of you to take a look at my character sheet and point out my mistakes. I forgot to fill in my flat footed AC which I think should be 15... The name age height alignment, etc. should be ok, since most of that stuff is arbitrary. I added two points to one of my ability scores already.
Just let me know if something isn't filled in correctly, or I'm missing something important.
I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
I just forgot to fill in the speed with armor, which I know is 20ft.
Should the armor check penalty associated with the armor I chose go in the AC misc. modifier?
I wasn't sure if i just totally missed this, but would I have any special abilities?
Should I list my armor in AC Items as well as my gear?
And finally for now, I just wanted to make sure that the Domains/Specialty School section applies to some other class besides mine.
Thanks! :)
Welcome, AVGBountyHunter.
I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
P is piercing, S is slashing and B is bludgeoning
Should the armor check penalty associated with the armor I chose go in the AC misc. modifier?
Yes.
I wasn't sure if i just totally missed this, but would I have any special abilities?
Not at first level though under character level you should include class, i.e Character Level: Fighter 1
Should I list my armor in AC Items as well as my gear?
I do. Its easier to add up emcumbrance if your using that, and to keep all possessions together.
And finally for now, I just wanted to make sure that the Domains/Specialty School section applies to some other class besides mine.
Domains: clerics
Speciality School: Wizard
Thanks! :)
Your welcome! :D
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I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
Piercing and Slashing. The other one that you will see is B for Bludgeoning.
Some creatures, notably skeletons, have damage reduction that can only be overcome by certain types of weapon. In the case of a skeleton, you need a bludgeoning weapon like a mace or a club - think of attacking one with a rapier or a sword and picture the blade sliding neatly between the ribs and doing no damage. You need to smash them apart.
I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
Piercing and Slashing. This will not matter most of the time, but it does in specific cases. For instance some monsters have DR 5/slashing, meaning they have damage reduction 5 EXCEPT against slashing weapons. You also cant sunder (try to break an object) with a piercing weapon for instance.
Should the armor check penalty associated with the armor I chose go in the AC misc. modifier?
No, Armor check penalty applies to specific skills. It does not apply to Armore Class. The description of the skill will tell you if armor check penalty applies. Acrobatics is an example. Its alot easier to tumble about wearing just a shirt and pants then it is in 40lbs of full plate.
I wasn't sure if i just totally missed this, but would I have any special abilities?
Special abilities is where you write down ratial, or class abilities (besides feats). So for instance when you get it as a fighter you would put armor training and weapon training there. As a human you dont have many ratial abilities (that arent skills or feats). But a dwarf might put dark vision there for instance.
Should I list my armor in AC Items as well as my gear?
Yes, you should put everything you are carrying in your gear list. The weapons section and AC Items section are there for your convenience, but your gear list should be a list of everything in your possession (to track weight, and simply to have a single list where all your stuff is).
And finally for now, I just wanted to make sure that the Domains/Specialty School section applies to some other class besides mine.
Thanks! :)
You are correct these are for clerics and wizards. Its just there because your character sheet is generic as opposed to fighter specific, and the casters need somewhere to write that stuff down.
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I've been working on this character and I'd like for all of you to take a look at my character sheet and point out my mistakes. I forgot to fill in my flat footed AC which I think should be 15... The name age height alignment, etc. should be ok, since most of that stuff is arbitrary. I added two points to one of my ability scores already.
Just let me know if something isn't filled in correctly, or I'm missing something important.
I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
I just forgot to fill in the speed with armor, which I know is 20ft.
Should the armor check penalty associated with the armor I chose go in the AC misc. modifier?
I wasn't sure if i just totally missed this, but would I have any special abilities?
Should I list my armor in AC Items as well as my gear?
And finally for now, I just wanted to make sure that the Domains/Specialty School section applies to some other class besides mine.
Thanks! :)
Can't see the sheets very well, but: P stands for Piercing, S stands for Slashing and B stands for Bludgeoning. certain creatures have Damage Reduction except against certain types of weapon (i.e. skeletons have DR5/Bludgeoning and so need a bludgeoning weapon to ignore the DR)
Also, the Armour check Penalty (ACP) applies to your Strength and Dexterity based skills. It doesn't apply to AC.
What class are you? I think you said Fighter. That's normally recorded in the character level part of the sheet (which is why it's longer than you'd need for a number), so you'd be Fighter 1. 1st level fighters don't get any special abilities. If you advance to 2nd level in Fighter you'd get Bravery +1. You could record your Skilled Human ability there.
Domains apply only to Clerics (and Druids who take that option). Speciality School only applies to Wizards who take that option. So you're ok there.
Your Flat-Footed AC would indeed be 15.
It looks ok. Four things to consider:
1) Hit points. Many DMs start with maximum hit points for first level. You'd also be getting +2 from Constitution (which it looks like you've included) and +3 from Toughness (which it doesn't).
2) Combat Reflexes. You actually get no benefit from this feat. Everyone can make a single Attack of Opportunity, and with your Dexterity Score, that's all this feat allows you to make. You might be better off swapping it for something more immediately beneficial.
3) You have the ability to designate a Favoured Class (I'd recommend Fighter if you intend to keep advancing in that class). Every time you take a level in that class, you gain EITHER an additional Hit Point or an additional Skill Point to spend.
4) Skills. You can use any skill (Except for those that explicitly say they can't be used untrained). Your ability modifiers would apply to all of those, not just the class skills. It can be handy to have their modifiers noted down.
EDIT: Ninja'ed many, many times.
Just let me know if something isn't filled in correctly, or I'm missing something important.
I'm also wondering what the weapon type stands for. Mine are P and S.
I'm headed off to work now so jusa quick reply from me. I took a quick glance at sheet 1 and everything except weapon damage looks correct.
The P/S/B are short for Piercing / Slashing / Bludgeoning.
Some creatures have damage reduction (DR) versus some of these weapon types. I believe a skeleton has a DR of 5, so -5 points of damage are subtracted from damage rolls from any attacks made with a piercing weapon (such as an arrow).
The damage for shortsword should be listed as 1d6+3. (1d6 because you are a medium creature so you use the amount in the Dmg(M) category, and +3 because your STR mod of +3 also adds to damage.
Longsword damage would be 1d8+3
And finally for now, I just wanted to make sure that the Domains/Specialty School section applies to some other class besides mine.
Yes, that is for clerics (domains) and wizards (specialty school).
Also, your Intelligence modifier is +1, so you get to select 1 extra language from your list of racial bonus languages -- which for human is any language. Page 101 has the list of languages you can choose from.
Also, any skill that does not have an asterix, is a skill that you can use. So for skills like Disguise you can still record your +1 Dex bonus and show that you have a total score of +1 for Disguise.
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Great! Thanks for the help everyone! Sorry about the size of the pictures, they were scanned in haste this morning before work, I didn't even know they were so small! :)
Looks like I totally forgot to add the +3 for toughness, got weapon type down now and how it relates to DR, and I fixed my weapon damage.
Next up, I'll be starting a Rogue Elf. I want to make a character of each type eventually to familiarize myself with the different races and classes, and hopefully get the character creation process running a smoothly as possible!
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So this is going a lot faster that I thought it would, but I have a few new questions!
How do I find my range penalty? I'm trying to get an attack bonus for a Short Bow, but I can't seem to find anything about its range penalty.
Also, if I were creating a character for the first time and bringing it into a new game with new players, what kind of gear should I have besides weapons and armor? Do I need food? Soap? Spyglass? A Tent?
As a Gamemaster, would you anticipate your players need to buy some of these things and suggest they stock up on certain items? Or do you not even worry about this kind of thing? Like in movies, you don't HAVE to see people eating a going to the bathroom to know that they do it every day...
Also, if I were creating a character for the first time and bringing it into a new game with new players, what kind of gear should I have besides weapons and armor? Do I need food? Soap? Spyglass? A Tent?As a Gamemaster, would you anticipate your players need to buy some of these things and suggest they stock up on certain items? Or do you not even worry about this kind of thing? Like in movies, you don't HAVE to see people eating a going to the bathroom to know that they do it every day...
Food and water (or wine/mead) can be significant depending on availability of such during an adventure... four days worth of rations is usually sufficient. Consider at least one skin of wine (or mead) in addition to one of water - save the wine for when potable water is unavailable. Sunrods are good for light. Knotted silk rope with a small steel grappling hook is handy for climbing. A hammer and pitons or spikes can be useful. A spyglass is expensive, fragile, and rarely useful except at sea. A tent is worthy only if inclement weather (cold, hot, or wet) is an issue. A bedroll is a must (ever try to sleep on rocks?). A fire kit (flint and tinder and such) is another essential. Also, someone in the party should carry a scroll tube containing a few sheets of parchment with pen and ink for making maps.
A hooded lantern having a continual flame spell cast therein serves better than a sunrod. A ball of twine is handy for make-shift traps (for food and mayhem). A small metal mirror is good for peeking around corners and signaling. And, a hunk of soap is probably not a bad idea.
Of course, a backpack to carry all of this is needed, as well as a pouch or two for coins and small objects, and a large empty sack for carrying the spoils of the adventure.
Each class should also have a small kit of appropriate sort: thief's tools, healing kit, holy water, spell components, etc.
All of this should total no more than about 30 pounds or so, which is reasonable for long hikes.
Equipping the characters is a basic part of the game that can lead to some very interesting play, particularly when the party later comes up with a nifty solution using a rather mundane item, such as the ball of twine.
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Cool, I guess I figured that that kind of stuff would be necessary. And I can see how having a few random items could make the game more fun.
Still not sure about the range penalty thing though... maybe I'm just overlooking something? I checked the index of the rulebook but didn't see anything...
Also, Happy Thanksgiving! Thanks again everybody for everything!
Cool, I guess I figured that that kind of stuff would be necessary. And I can see how having a few random items could make the game more fun.
Still not sure about the range penalty thing though... maybe I'm just overlooking something? I checked the index of the rulebook but didn't see anything...
Also, Happy Thanksgiving! Thanks again everybody for everything!
Every range weapon has a range incriment. That is in effect the maximum range it can be used without penalty. out to that range, ou suffer no penalty in its use. Beyond it you lose accuracy. For each incriment byond the first, you suffer a -2 to hit. Pg 144 spells it out pretty good.
Even weapons not designed to be thrown can be. However, on top of the normal range penalties, you suffer an additional -4 to hit. This can be found on pg 141.
Cool, I guess I figured that that kind of stuff would be necessary. And I can see how having a few random items could make the game more fun.
Still not sure about the range penalty thing though... maybe I'm just overlooking something? I checked the index of the rulebook but didn't see anything...
Also, Happy Thanksgiving! Thanks again everybody for everything!
Hope this helps,
Equipment section, weapon qualities description (PFRPG pag.144):Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.
Each weapon has a listed range(for melee weapons it's a -) in the descriptive table (p.142 and forth).
If your attack exceeds it the previous rule applies.
Note the two last sentences that define the maximum possible range for a weapon.
edit: It seems paul beat me to it.
avg, welcome to the boards (and to the hobby).
Regarding equipment: especially at the start of gaming, I would keep track of it. It is not too important for understanding the rules, but for the game itself. Many details are regularly glossed over, but if your adventure includes traveling through wilderness, knowing how much food (and water - especially in a desert)you have with you becomes important. How much attention you give to these details is a matter of taste and style - in some games, these details are very important, others just don´t bother with it. It adds a level of realism to the game.
Stefan
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Hello again, everyone! So I've been studying everything about the game as much as I can, and I'm really trying to set up my first campaign. I figured I would just start with the Pathfinder Adventure Path vol. 1 since I could just follow the basic story given there and introduce myself to Sandpoint. I've also been reading some of the Pathfinder Chronicles stuff which I find fascinating. Anyways, I've been studying "Burnt Offerings" and writing down some notes about moving the story along and stuff like that but I have some questions. When I eventually begin playing this game with others, there will only be three of us. Two players and one GM. The encounters in the first adventure path, and I'm assuming all subsequent adventure paths, are designed for four players. How would I go about down-grading an encounter to suit two people?
Also, to determine the CR my players would be suited for, I take the APL and subtract 1. Would two players at level one then have a CR of 0?
Taking the very first encounter on page 11 for example: Goblins(3) have a CR of 1/3. Does this mean that each Goblin has a CR 1/3 and therefore is worth 135xp (405xp total)? Or is the encounter itself a CR 1/3 and therefore worth 135xp total?
On page 13 there is another encounter where players face a Goblin Commando, Goblin Dog, and 4 Goblins. How would you make this more suitable for 2 players and what factors would you take into consideration when making changes?
Really if anyone can just make this a little bit more clear for me, I would appreciate it. I understand that it's not an exact science and I can just do whatever I want, but I just think there must be some way to down-grade these encounters so that they give the 4 player feel to two players.
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There are several ways you can go about dealing with this.
1) obviously the best solution is to find yourself 2 more players ;) that may be the hardest solution however.
2) You can look at it as a supply and demand issue. The PC's are the Demand and the Adventure is the Supply. If you have fewer PC's they demand fewer monsters. Now the Mod is written for 4 pc's. But...it is actually written for 4 first level pcs and at low level you could substitute 2 2nd level pc's for 4 first level and be close to par.
3) You could also do what you are suggesting and reduce the numbers in the adventure.
Each heading has an (EL #) and then the monster has a (CR #) The EL, is what the group of monsters in that encounter are worth total. You'll notice with larger numbers of creatures that they are not always linear. That whole concept will take some time to understand, you can read up on it in PF Core Book page 397
Here is how I would go about reducing the first set of encounters in Burnt Offerings (PF #1) I will spoiler this in case there are any folks out there who wish to play this game.
Initial Assault (EL 1) Goblins (3) (CR 1/3 each)
I would remove one of the 3 goblins, but I would stagger the remaining two. Since you are talking about brand new players lets gang up on the bad guys out of the gate shall we. Have one attack, let the PC's deal with it, then the other attack. Think of it as a nice slow walk through practice. We only need to see how it should go, we can speed up as we do these things more and more.
If the PC's were injured badly, now would be the time to bring forth the Cleric NPC Father Zantus (mentioned on the next page) to heal the party. Also, if there is not a cleric in the party (that is what we call your group of Player Characters) have him cast bless on them (page 249 of the Core Book) It should last the length of the rest of the fighting and it will be helpful without taking the fun out of the game.
Goblin Pyro's (EL 2) Goblins (4) (CR 1/3 each) Goblin Warchanter (CR 1)
I think here the easiest thing to do is to remove the 4 goblins and leave the warchanter...but that doesn't mean it is what we should do. The warchanter is a bard, they are PC classes but they are best when they are helping others be better than they are without the bard. But by themselves they are usually not quite as fierce. So. Let's go ahead and see how our two new pc's are doing. Let's leave 2 of the Goblins and the warchanter. If they are having trouble, I suggest you have 2 NPC Militia on hand. They can provide a little help, perhaps they could flank and/or Aid an attack or two.
Die Dog, Die (EL 3) Goblin Commando (CR 1), Goblin Dog (CR 1), Goblins (4) CR (1/3 each)
This one is going to be a bit more rules intense. You'll need to read up on the ride skill and mounted combat. I would remove the 4 goblins for 2 PC's as at this point you'll have enough going on with the mounted goblin anyway. Be prepared to just break open the rule book and read together for a bit on this. Also, don't hesitate to just go with what seems correct and then figure out the details later.
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Awesome! I never considered throwing in a few NPCs to help the players if things get tough during combat... which is perfect for this opening scene. As far as the first three encounters go, I pretty much agree on everything.
Thanks for the help Brute, and I think once my players reach level two, it shouldn't be too hard to just build each encounter from scratch based on their APL.
I don't think it's been mentioned, but are you familiar with the Pathfinder Standard Reference Document (SRD)?
It is an online summary of all the essential rules which is very easy to reference. It saves you a bunch of time leafing through the book to find a specific rule.
You can find it here: Pathfinder SRD
Anyway, good luck with your game, and remember that the best way to learn it is to play it.
Quick question for Pre-Generated Characters for Pathfinder Society.
The rules creation PDF says the point-buy allotment is 20.
I did the math for the pre-gen characters and I get around 29.
Am I doing something wrong here?
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Thanks for the info Jace! I'll definitely be using this!
And Kalderaan, I think you may be forgetting the +2 to any ability that Humans get, or any other class or race bases bonuses. The Cleric is listed at:
STR: 13 (3pts)
DEX: 10 (0pts)
CON: 14 (5pts)
INT: 10 (0pts)
WIS: 18 (17pts)
CHA: 12 (2pts)
For a total of 27, but if you subtract 2 from WIS, the points needed becomes 10 (instead of 17) for a total of 20. Hope this helps!
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Hey again everyone! I have another question, but i feel like it may be a little too broad. It's about being a GM. I have the first of the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path books and I've read the first 15 pages like 20 times. I guess what I don't get is what information do the PCs get from the start. The book gives alot of back story to the adventure, and I'm not really sure what the characters need to know. My best guess is that the characters come up with some reason to be in Sandpoint, and based on that information, I tell them certain things. Like if anyone lives around Sandpoint, then they should obviously be informed of the events pertaining to the "Late Unpleasantness" because that's something their character would know. But should I tell them anything about Nualia, or the Adventure background? If not then does this information eventually become relevant?
I feel like the above might be a bit much, but my next conundrum should be a little bit easier. Starting with Part One: Festival and Fire, how would I get my players from the start of the "Swallowtail Festival" to "Goblins in the Streets?" Am I just reading the Welcoming Speeches, Swallowtail Release, Lunch and Consecration sections? Or would I just describe what's doing on during the festival? I guess my overall question is how do I start this particular campaign? It just seems like I could say the characters are at the festival, mention a few things that happen, and as Father Zantus takes the stage, Goblins attack the city. It's definitely a nutshell, but is that basically it? I feel like once I can visualize everything until the first encounter, I'll be solid, but I just can't seem to get over this hump. Thanks!
Hey again everyone! I have another question, but i feel like it may be a little too broad. It's about being a GM. I have the first of the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path books and I've read the first 15 pages like 20 times. I guess what I don't get is what information do the PCs get from the start. The book gives alot of back story to the adventure, and I'm not really sure what the characters need to know. My best guess is that the characters come up with some reason to be in Sandpoint, and based on that information, I tell them certain things. Like if anyone lives around Sandpoint, then they should obviously be informed of the events pertaining to the "Late Unpleasantness" because that's something their character would know. But should I tell them anything about Nualia, or the Adventure background? If not then does this information eventually become relevant?
I feel like the above might be a bit much, but my next conundrum should be a little bit easier. Starting with Part One: Festival and Fire, how would I get my players from the start of the "Swallowtail Festival" to "Goblins in the Streets?" Am I just reading the Welcoming Speeches, Swallowtail Release, Lunch and Consecration sections? Or would I just describe what's doing on during the festival? I guess my overall question is how do I start this particular campaign? It just seems like I could say the characters are at the festival, mention a few things that happen, and as Father Zantus takes the stage, Goblins attack the city. It's definitely a nutshell, but is that basically it? I feel like once I can visualize everything until the first encounter, I'll be solid, but I just can't seem to get over this hump. Thanks!
Disclaimer: I have never read or played Rise of the Runelords, so this is general advice based on my own experience as a GM and player.
Use the background info and the description of the festival as a tool to get your players involved and to encourage them to develop their character backgrounds and motivations.
During character creation, you can talk to your players about their character concepts, and pick out relevant info as part of their back story. A person living in Sandpoint probably knows much of the info, but someone visiting might have heard rumors or gotten a message from someone in the area, giving the info that is relevant to the backstory.
If you divide up selected bits of information between your players, it also encourages interaction. For instance, the local cleric may have noticed an increase of wounded travelers seeking help at the temple, while a visiting ranger may be investigating an increase in goblin attacks throughout the region, that can be traced to the Sandpoint area.
As for the festival itself, it depends on how much your players are action-focused vs roleplaying focus.
In the first case, the best thing may be to briefly read out a description of what is going on, and then announce "As Father Zantus takes the stage, you hear a great commotion somewhere in the edge of the crowd. Roll initiative!" - nothing gets the players attention quite as effectively as the words "roll initiative".
With more roleplaying-oriented players, the festival is a good chance for them to test out their characters and let the others get a feel for them. Describe the scene, and ask everyone what they would like to do during the festivities - this may lead to interesting roleplaying, that can serve as plot hooks for later on, give you hints to the characters goals and motivations and let the players see the other characters in action before the first big fight.