Challenge Part 2

[Thomas Pelletier]

I have just read lots of responces to this question. this is a play test and I think all coments on this are good. But lets remember that the Cavalier is suppose to be honorable. (hence he should have a more lawful or true alingnment. Chaotic knight can care less about a challenge.) The Cavalier will not call out the Mage or the dog or cat on the battlefield but a oppent worthy of his challenge. One that will bring him Honor amoung friend and foe. Thats how it should be. Its not the GM responsibilty to put in those to accecpt the Cavalier challenge. I think we should take a page from history about the Cavalier, his mount and his honor. If there is a fighter or another knight on the field that the Cavalier thinks is worthy then he should challenge him, and damn the rest on the battle field, (hence the flanking) Most other opposeing cav's will accecpt his challenge its in there blood and or training, some fighters might if they think the can take him. a mage, hell he wont', a rouge nope. a barbrain could but most likely not. So the challenge will be rare. The game master will say yeah or neah depending on the oppoenet. And the cav should just continueing fighting the bad guys. Its not honorable if his comrades die cause he wants to kill the big bad thing is it? Leave it to roleplaying on how the cav acts. A opposeing knight is compelled to taek the challenge great. A rouge is not even if the rouge is the bades on the field of battle, or the fighter or barb, or dargon. " yeah right cav get lost and take your challenge with you." If you like throw in a opposeing die roll to the challenge. its simeple and doesnt' tie down the game.

all in all the cav needs work. In many areas. Mount, challeges, orders, and combat on and off the horse. Lots of good points here. I trust Paizo will make it all work in the final copy of the Cavalier when is published. They have done good so far.

[Zurai]

THOMAS PELLETIER wrote:

But lets remember that the Cavalier is suppose to be honorable.

Says who? Order of the Dragon. Oath of Greed.

[Thomas Pelletier]

Zurai wrote:

THOMAS PELLETIER wrote:

But lets remember that the Cavalier is suppose to be honorable.

Says who? Order of the Dragon. Oath of Greed.

On both of those it was the Designers who put them in. But if you look at history 98% where honorable. If you want to to have a order and or oaths of such then use fighters and or rouges for those. They really dont' fit with what a Cav and or Knight is. Yes if we just want to break it down real simple then all the Cav is, is a mounted fighter. In that case take out the oaths and the orders and the challenge just give him mounted combat feats and he can ride good. But the cav is so much more. The cav demands respect, a big horse with a heavly armoured man charge into battle. Not someone who takes all for him self, thats not a cav.

[Xum]

No. 98% of the Cavalier HEROES where honorable. Not even 98, more to 70%.

[Kolokotroni]

THOMAS PELLETIER wrote:

Zurai wrote:

THOMAS PELLETIER wrote:

But lets remember that the Cavalier is suppose to be honorable.

Says who? Order of the Dragon. Oath of Greed.

On both of those it was the Designers who put them in. But if you look at history 98% where honorable. If you want to to have a order and or oaths of such then use fighters and or rouges for those. They really dont' fit with what a Cav and or Knight is. Yes if we just want to break it down real simple then all the Cav is, is a mounted fighter. In that case take out the oaths and the orders and the challenge just give him mounted combat feats and he can ride good. But the cav is so much more. The cav demands respect, a big horse with a heavly armoured man charge into battle. Not someone who takes all for him self, thats not a cav.

Actually, Knights were in fact nobles and politicians historically. Those terms are almost mutually exclusive with honorable. In fact there are countless of historical exmaples of knights being down right rotten. The knights templar for instance were self righteous zealots who slaughtered people whole sale. Knights often used deception in warefare as opposed to 'honor'. You can look at the events of something like the War of the Roses and see how 'honorable' knights are. If you want examples of fiction you can look at things like The Song of Ice and Fire by George R R Martin.

You have a very strong view of what the cavalier should be, and by all means make it so in your game. But just because you state something doesn't make it universally true.

Not to mention, if you have a thread open about a subject, starting a new one is fairly poor message board form.