Director of Brand Strategy
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Great summation of the Giants!
"Fire Giant = giant dwarf" - That is the only one that I think is off a little. I always saw Fire Giants as giant human mercenaries. (1st Edition MM illustration) As they are almost a local legend where I live, Hessian soldiers seem like a good model for fire giants. Well equipped, armed, and trained they are fearsome warriors.
Maybe giant Azer?
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Marsh Giant = giant Innsmouth folk2) Fomorian giants are not open content. The NAME comes from myth, but the concept of a big ugly deformed giant is not from myth. We could certainly do our own version of "giant mutants" but we'd call them something entirely different.
On the subject of Open Content, why no Mind Flayer equivalent?
TSR sure didn't invent them, as they are badly veiled Starspawn of Cthulhu anyways. I.C.E. has Cthugans (OK, really silly name...). which are the same concept. Just wondering... Mind Flayers are one of THE favorite baddies of everyone who tosses a D20. Shame that they should suddenly disappear from Campaigns. I will continue to use them, Beholders etc, but a lot of folks don't use anything unless it is official.
Uriel
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Creative Director
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Correct. WotC has claimed the mind flayer and several other monsters as their content. And while the general look of a mind flayer is similar to public domain stuff like Cthulhu... that doesn't give anyone open season to poach mind flayers from WotC. They own it, I'm cool with that. And in fact, the fact that they only claimed 11 or so monsters and let the rest out into the world is so incredibly generous that I'm more than willing to repay that generosity by honoring their intellectual property.
Another thumbs up for the Gug, here.
I think the Paizo treatment (and especially the artwork in PF) for them is excellent and better than I've seen anywhere else... including the source material.
Its a shame about the mind flayers, as I love the flavour text but
1) I can always use the lovecraftian/parasite flavour text with another race (and shall !) and then give them wizard levels. Perhaps a tentacled version of skum...
2)I'm someone who has grave doubts about psionic powers in fantasy games -I just call it "magic" that sourced from the mind (as flavour text, not mechanics) and use the same mechanics as any other magic.(whats that ? Psychic powers never need gestures ? Go watch Jean grey in Xmen 2...or you can buy the feat that dfoenst require gestures)
3) I have 3.5...so in extremis I can always use that.
I'm another one who's never liked the fire giants = giant dwarves idea (I'm not too keen on Azers, truth be told) ... I prefer the Giant mercenarys idea. Or to use the real world analogy, giant western Europeans of the dark ages...it makes them a far more intelligent and organised villain, and makes more sense to me when they do stuff like ally with the Drow ...
ps:
"Skum"...not keen on the name, must admit. Ulat is much better.
And the Intellect Devourer is creepy in a way I always thought the mind-flayers weren't. Just something to published about them for me, I don't know what it is, but it happens to me when I compare monsters as done by paizo nad in golarion, I just see them in a way better way that makes them more interesting to run and use.
Actually ,this thread has given me some nice ideas about creating an "True Ulat" ecology/creature/template that addresses some of the points here without stepping on WotC toes... James, you and your colleagues can expect a submission on that subject sometime in the next few weeks...
...I can always use the lovecraftian/parasite flavour text with another race (and shall !) and then give them wizard levels...
How about the Puppeteer from the Psionic Monsters in the SRD? Just convert the psi-like abilities to similar spell-like equivalents.
Besides, the Paizo replacement of Mind Flayers - Intellect Devourers - are beyond cool....
And the Intellect Devourer is creepy in a way I always thought the mind-flayers weren't....
Maybe we should have a thread contest to see who can come up with the weirdest mutant or evolved variant of an intellect devourer?
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The Intellect devourer I had missed them since second edition, I always thought them a very alien and intriguing monster not given the credit they were due. Im wondering how come they are not part of the Intellectual properties of WOTC?
When WotC included the Expanded Psionic Handbook in the SRD, all the monsters from EPH became open. Including the Intellect Devourer.
The funniest thing is that the Neothelids, who are an offshot of Mind Flayers, became open content as well. It's a bit like with Beholders being closed WotC property while the Eye of the Deep (aquatic beholders) being open content thanks to Tome of Horrors.
The D&D monster legalese is weird. But it's nice that Paizo respects the WotC property and doesn't try to workaround the closed content.
If intellect devourers were incorporeal, I would like them a lot more. I think they should be tentacular ethereal consciousnesses that bind to the nerves. Makes them a lot more scary if they can lurk in the walls of Orv and Sekamina.
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If intellect devourers were incorporeal, I would like them a lot more. I think they should be tentacular ethereal consciousnesses that bind to the nerves. Makes them a lot more scary if they can lurk in the walls of Orv and Sekamina.
I don't know about you, but if I saw a brain running around on four legs, I'd book it faster than a fat guy to a cupcake.
True... but the fomorians of D&D are not. And I'm not really interested in confusing things by making a new version of the fomorian based more heavily on myth because, while we can't use the D&D fomorian in our adventures, the players of the game absolutely can.I'd rather come up with a totally brand new giant mutant.
Fair enough. I was mainly just commenting in case someone wanted to use something closer to myth.
Actually, now that I think about it, you could us the Nephilim (from Pathfinder 23) for them as well (depending on how you wanted to portray them).
I don't know about you, but if I saw a brain running around on four legs, I'd book it faster than a fat guy to a cupcake.
Considering my first experience with them was in "Expedition to Barrier peaks," I agree.
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Correct. WotC has claimed the mind flayer and several other monsters as their content. And while the general look of a mind flayer is similar to public domain stuff like Cthulhu... that doesn't give anyone open season to poach mind flayers from WotC. They own it, I'm cool with that. And in fact, the fact that they only claimed 11 or so monsters and let the rest out into the world is so incredibly generous that I'm more than willing to repay that generosity by honoring their intellectual property.
I suppose that they haven't gone after I.C.E because the Cthugan predates their involvement with D&D, since the Dark Space book/old Creatures& Treasues where they appeared came out in 91 or before...
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Creative Director
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Correct. WotC has claimed the mind flayer and several other monsters as their content. And while the general look of a mind flayer is similar to public domain stuff like Cthulhu... that doesn't give anyone open season to poach mind flayers from WotC. They own it, I'm cool with that. And in fact, the fact that they only claimed 11 or so monsters and let the rest out into the world is so incredibly generous that I'm more than willing to repay that generosity by honoring their intellectual property.I suppose that they haven't gone after I.C.E because the Cthugan predates their involvement with D&D, since the Dark Space book/old Creatures& Treasues where they appeared came out in 91 or before...
Or perhaps because I.C.E. is below their notice. Paizo is not.
Not saying that Paizo's better or worse than I.C.E. Just that from WotC's viewpoint, we're probably more of a competitor to watch than I.C.E.
You could always work a deal with Reaper, and stat out some Bathalians.
That'd be pretty sweet.
For my home game, I've consolidated and converted a psionic mind flayer from the 3.5 MM , XPH, and Lords of Madness. It's the mind flayer I want to run.
I've been really impressed with the quality of Paizo's monster design. I should have my copy of Into the Darklands in a few days, just because the seugathi sounds like cool monsters. And my mind flayer NPC will probably have a vivarium full of torbles.
All in all, I think it's better for the folks at Paizo to be dreaming up new horrors than retreading other companies' IP.
And who needs a thinly-veiled HPL knock-off like a Mind Flayer when we can have the full-on HPL experience with Denizens of Leng?
I demand more of Leng and its Denizens!
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Or perhaps because I.C.E. is below their notice. Paizo is not.
Not saying that Paizo's better or worse than I.C.E. Just that from WotC's viewpoint, we're probably more of a competitor to watch than I.C.E.
Well, yes... they aren't exactly front-runners any more, which is a shame, as HARP is a fantastic system, and bridges the niftyness (Yes, I know, not a real word...) of RM's tables&Open Ended mechanic and D20/PFs ease of character gen and playability. All hail Monte Cook's contribution to gaming...he had a hand at streamlining RM back-in-the-day.
Anyways, shame more folks aren't even aware that a 'playable' ICE game exists. I am a proud 2-system guy once again (OK, I even play Savage Worlds from time to time...Nazis&Dinosaurs, folks...Nazis&Dinosaurs).
Digression aside, there is no reason that with the obvious HPL bent of some of PFs monsters, that the Deep Ones couldn't make an appearance somewhere, which is where the Kuo-Toa (Arguably) came from anyways...
-Uriel
I demand more of Leng and its Denizens!Ok! I'll make it happen.
We're holding you to this. Bookmarked. :-)
No worries, since steps to make this happen were already well under way weeks, or maybe even months ago.We're holding you to this. Bookmarked. :-)I demand more of Leng and its Denizens!Ok! I'll make it happen.
The whole HPL critters would be brilliant.
Mi-GoSerpentmen
Gugs
Insects from Shaggai
Hounds of Tindalos
Hunting Horrors
Dark Young
Oh the joy...
*edit* I forgot Shoggoths. How could I!
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Creative Director
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The whole HPL critters would be brilliant.
Mi-Go
Serpentmen
Gugs
Insects from Shaggai
Hounds of Tindalos
Hunting Horrors
Dark Young
Oh the joy...
Mi-Go: Yeah; they'd be a great addition.
Serpentmen: Done! They've got stats in "Into the Darklands," and are going to be a major element of an upcoming Adventure Path.
Gugs: Done! They're in Pathfinder #11.
Insects from Shaggai: These critters were actaully created by contemporary (and brilliant) British writer Ramsey Campbell, and are thus not in the public domain nor readily available for us to do stats for. We could probably arrange it, but at this point I'm not ready to take those steps of clearing the permissions with Mr. Campbell and Chaosium (who has the current rights, I believe, to do game material based on Mr. Campbell's creations).
Hounds of Tindalos: Done! They're in Pathfinder #4 (although they're created by one Frank Belknap Long, not Lovecraft).
Hunting Horrors: These are actually not really monsters invented by Lovecraft but by the fine folks at Chaosium, I believe, for their excellent game "Call of Cthulhu." As such, hunting horrors are off limits.
Dark Young: These are a strange case. As far as I can tell, they were actually invented by Chaosium for "Call of Cthulhu" but based off of a description of a monster that was originally described by Robert Bloch in his great short story "Notebook Found in a Deserted House." In that story, these monsters seem to be intended to be shoggoths, in fact. In any event, this monster, being mostly invented by Chaosium, is off limits.
THAT SAID: We'll certainly be statting up Lovecraftian critters now and then still, and even more often making up NEW monsters that would, I like to think, make Lovecraft proud.
Loads of things which has made me very happy
Ahh!
I forgot about FBL, Ramsey Cambell and Robert Bloch.Bloch came up with the Big Bads being tied to the four elements which didn't work.
I'm sure Hunting Horrors turned up in one of the stories or at least alluded to them, must check.
If you do Mi-Go you must go and do the whole brain cylinder thing.
Star Vampires...Dhole...proper Ghouls...Elder Things...and Shoggoths again
*edit* Forgot August Derleth Black Young first mentioned in the Whisperer in Darkness
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For my home game, I've consolidated and converted a psionic mind flayer from the 3.5 MM , XPH, and Lords of Madness. It's the mind flayer I want to run.
I've been really impressed with the quality of Paizo's monster design. I should have my copy of Into the Darklands in a few days, just because the seugathi sounds like cool monsters. And my mind flayer NPC will probably have a vivarium full of torbles.
All in all, I think it's better for the folks at Paizo to be dreaming up new horrors than retreading other companies' IP.
On the flip-side, there's also the stats for the 'Mind Grub Collective' from Malhavoc Press' Hyperconscious & the v3.5 update of If Thoughts Could Kill. Jumped to mind, as it was slotted in to replace the Mind Flayer as a villain in that adventure once Illithids were pulled from open content.
Serpentmen: Done! They've got stats in "Into the Darklands," and are going to be a major element of an upcoming Adventure Path.
Little tidbits like these feels like mining (the boards) for gold. Every now and then you get a nugget of awesomeness!
Hounds of Tindalos: Done! They're in Pathfinder #4 (although they're created by one Frank Belknap Long, not Lovecraft)
Yeah, we just ran into them. Our clerics are now losing sleep because of these things tailing them whereever we go. After some research, I've concluded they should take to sleeping in barrels with daylight spells in them. For some reason they find this an unacceptable method of dealing with them.
Dont forget Shantaks....the monster my players most remember is getting attacked by a Shantak.
(Could also make a suitable replacement for hunting horrors ?)
Flying lizard-rocs the size of an elephant. Nice.And fits in with the Leng angle too !
(p.s. Shoggoths are in Crucible of Chaos )
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Creative Director
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Dont forget Shantaks....the monster my players most remember is getting attacked by a Shantak.
(Could also make a suitable replacement for hunting horrors ?)Flying lizard-rocs the size of an elephant. Nice.And fits in with the Leng angle too !
(p.s. Shoggoths are in Crucible of Chaos )
I most certainly did NOT forget about shantaks... as will eventually be proven true!
I most certainly did NOT forget about shantaks... as will eventually be proven true!Dont forget Shantaks....the monster my players most remember is getting attacked by a Shantak.
(Could also make a suitable replacement for hunting horrors ?)Flying lizard-rocs the size of an elephant. Nice.And fits in with the Leng angle too !
(p.s. Shoggoths are in Crucible of Chaos )
Thats great, we clearly think alike :Evil:.
Do you think we are permitted an evil GM chuckle ?
p.s. Is there a FAQ about submissions ? ...