Abyssal Sorcerer / Eldritch Knight

[Umbral Reaver]

Hello!

I'm looking at the idea of an Abyssal Bloodline Sorcerer that does not shy away from the demonic gifts but revels in them. Specifically: The use of the claws.

Right now I'm thinking of Sorcerer 13/Eldritch Knight 7. However, as neat as casting a buff or two then Transformation and diving into battle with flaming claws sounds, it may end up being suicide.

I have a feeling that this build is more flavour than function, but I'd like to get my head around how to build a demonic fighter using just SRD.

[Shisumo]

Pure sorcerer can't get into EK - you have to have proficiency with all martial weapons, so you need at least one level of fighter, ranger, barbarian or (not likely) paladin.

Getting the claws to work is really tricky, because of their limited time of use, plus the fact that melee combat is always a dangerous place to be for any arcanist. I strongly encourage Toughness and putting all your favored enemy bonuses toward hit points as well (along with a solid Con score, of course). If you're not getting at least 1d6+4 hp per level, you're gonna get ganked fast.

[kyrt-ryder]

Your first hurdle, is the claws. Dang things were nerfed to oblivion in Pathfinder Final, but if your lucky you can beg them into unlimited use from your GM.

Secondly is the HP and BAB issue. There are a couple of variant classes you can take that help with this, they handicap your casting but you don't seem focused on casting anyway, so that should help.

There is this...

Sorcerer Variant: Battle Sorcerer
The battle sorcerer is no weak arcanist, hiding behind the fighters. Instead, she is a capable physical combatant who mixes magical prowess with fighting skill.

Hit Die
d8.

Base Attack Bonus
The battle sorcerer uses the base attack bonus progression of the cleric.

Class Skills
Remove Bluff from the battle sorcerer's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle sorcerer's class skill list.

Class Features
The battle sorcerer has all the standard sorcerer class features, except as noted below.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a battle sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. She also gains proficiency with light armor.

Spellcasting
A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.

A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).

From the d20 SRD, which hampers your casting a bit but increases your HP (Since back then it went from d4 to d8 you could try to con your GM into making it d8+1 bonus hp per level, to simulate the HP increase it origonally granted)

Next, there's this...

STALWART SORCERER
Class: Sorcerer.
Level: 1st.
Special Requirement: Knowledge (arcana) 1 rank.
Replaces: Reduce by one the number of sorcerer spells
known for your highest spell level (to a minimum of one).
As a 1st-level character, you have one 1st-level spell known
rather than two.
When you would gain a second known spell from a higher
level, apply this penalty to the new spell level but remove it
from the lower level. For example, at 5th level, you reduce
your 2nd-level spells known from two to one but you gain
the previously unavailable 1st-level spell (increasing your
1st-level spells known from three to four).

Benefit: You gain extra hit points equal to two times your
sorcerer class level. Every time you advance a level, you gain
another 2 extra hit points. (So, at 1st level you have 2 extra hit
points, at 2nd level you have 4 extra hit points, and so on.)
You also gain the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat for a
melee weapon of your choice, as well as Weapon Focus with
that weapon.

So, between the two, your getting 3/4 BAB from your sorc levels, and assuming the ideal situation, your HP per level is d8+3 (+con bonus, possibly tacking on Toughness if you still feel you need more HP)

Weapon Focus claws, of course.

Now, for the last piece of the puzzle.

Race = Tiefling (I know, Aasimar would be a better choice for a sorc, but alas, I don't really see an Aasimar having the Abyssal bloodline lol), unless the proficiency was ripped away from them in the revision, they come with proficiency in all martial weapons.

So it would go something like this.

Tiefling
Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 8
Eldritch Knight 10 (You will want to pick up weapon spec claws at some point in this progression)

That leaves you with 16 BAB, reduced Sorcerer casting at CL 17 (8th level spells), 2 levels left, but most campaigns don't get that far.

Good luck, it's hard playing a Gish, if your lucky some of my... tricky suggestions will go through, they'll make the task easier for you.

(Also if you find yourself taking too much of a pounding in Melee there is the Improved Toughness feat, from Libris Mortis, it adds an additional HP per level)

[Umbral Reaver]

No access to variants, house rules, or any flexibility whatsoever. It's rules as they're written.

I suppose dumping as much as possible into charisma (not a bad thing for a sorc) helps the claws duration.

With the fighter requirement, this looks like:

Fighter 1/Sorcerer 13/Eldritch Knight 6

The Abyssal Bloodline's strength bonus at level 13 (and free addition of Transformation to known spells) seems inclined toward a fighty caster.

[Quandary]

If your DM is open to hand-crafted solutions,
you might try looking over the Dragon Disciple PrC and tweaking it to match Abyssal Bloodline Abilities instead. You could combine Eldritch Knight and an "Abyssal Acolyte"(?) for something like Ftr1/Sor1/AbyssAcolyte8/EldKnight10 with 16 levels of Caster Progression (and Bloodline Bonus Spells up to Sorc9) and 19 BAB along with Eldritch Knight's Spell Critical Capstone.

EDIT: Whoops, guess that doesn't help. But yeah, Transformation BL Spell could make that work...

[Randall Jhen]

For the Abyssal and Infernal bloodlines, tieflings treat their Charisma as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities. I don't see anything in the bestiary preview that indicates they have martial weapon proficiency, though.

[Sort_vampyr]

Quandary wrote:

If your DM is open to hand-crafted solutions,

you might try looking over the Dragon Disciple PrC and tweaking it to match Abyssal Bloodline Abilities instead. You could combine Eldritch Knight and an "Abyssal Acolyte"(?) for something like Ftr1/Sor1/AbyssAcolyte8/EldKnight10 with 16 levels of Caster Progression (and Bloodline Bonus Spells up to Sorc9) and 19 BAB along with Eldritch Knight's Spell Critical Capstone.

EDIT: Whoops, guess that doesn't help. But yeah, Transformation BL Spell could make that work...

Yeah i would def consider taking 1 lvl sorc, then Dragon Disciple PrC and then Eldritch knight afterwards. You can just "make-believe" that it is demon blood in your veins and not dragon. Mechanics wise it would still be the same old dragon look-a-like but roleplaying wise it would be badass demon spellslinger/mauler :D

[ZappoHisbane]

Randall Jhen wrote:

For the Abyssal and Infernal bloodlines, tieflings treat their Charisma as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities. I don't see anything in the bestiary preview that indicates they have martial weapon proficiency, though.

The conditional bonus to CHA just offsets the racial penalty to CHA though. You're not really gaining that much.

[Larcifer]

As an aside, for a little bit different build.
You could go 2 levels of Barbarian, take moment of clarity in case you need to cast a spell during your rage....
gets the Martial weapon prof, rage ability is better than the 2nd level spell Bull's strength, and it has great HD...taken at level 1 its 12 HP +CON! I know the dragon disciple build is better, but rules wise it aint no abyssal but draconic!

[Umbral Reaver]

An amulet of mighty fists of some kind plus elemental damage would stack with the level 11 flaming claws, wouldn't it?

STR + 1d6 slashing + 1d6 fire + 1d6 something else? :D

[grasshopper_ea]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

An amulet of mighty fists of some kind plus elemental damage would stack with the level 11 flaming claws, wouldn't it?

STR + 1d6 slashing + 1d6 fire + 1d6 something else? :D

Definately. Any and all natural attacks & unarmed attacks.

[Corragh Bearson]

I know this thread is ancient and your campaign is long-since over, but for anyone looking for resources to do something similar 'The Bastards of Erebus' put out by pathfinder included a whole bunch of alternative layouts for Tieflings that lets you choose different stat distributions based on the type of fiendish ancestor. You can find it online at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fiendish-heritage

So for a melee Tiefling sorc:

Demon-Spawn: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, –2 Intelligence
Savage and monstrous, the terrifying spawn of demons know the chaotic fury of their Abyssal ancestors.

There's also a huge list of variant tiefling abilities, many of which work for a combat build, that would replace your 1/day Darkness spell like ability. #9 on that list grants you an additional +2 racial Cha bonus. Combined with Demon Spawn above, you can have a starting cha of 22 and an effective cha of 24 for calculating dc's once you factor in Fiendish Sorcery. Not too shabby. And the bonuses to summoning from Abyssal mean that if you get in over your head trying to melee you can call friends to help you out.

[Aeric Blackberry]

There is a magic item that gives you +4 levels to your bloodline power's level. Take into account and try to get full eldritch knight progresion.

Also, forget about your claws (they are a nice emergency solution) and focus either in weapons or natural attacks from Monstruous physique, giant form or Form
of the dragon.

[Wiggz]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Hello!

I'm looking at the idea of an Abyssal Bloodline Sorcerer that does not shy away from the demonic gifts but revels in them. Specifically: The use of the claws.

Right now I'm thinking of Sorcerer 13/Eldritch Knight 7. However, as neat as casting a buff or two then Transformation and diving into battle with flaming claws sounds, it may end up being suicide.

I have a feeling that this build is more flavour than function, but I'd like to get my head around how to build a demonic fighter using just SRD.

Is Tiefling an option? It would fit the character concept and there's an option to have permanent claw attacks from day one - not to mention buffs to STR and CHA.

[Wiggz]

Corragh Bearson wrote:

I know this thread is ancient and your campaign is long-since over, but for anyone looking for resources to do something similar 'The Bastards of Erebus' put out by pathfinder included a whole bunch of alternative layouts for Tieflings that lets you choose different stat distributions based on the type of fiendish ancestor.

Darn. I have GOT to start looking at the OP dates...

[Ismodai]

well a rakshasa tiefling gets +2 cha +2 dex so this plus the "tieflings consider their CH +2 for sorcerer thingies" gets you a +4 to cha, add an agile amulet of mighty fists and you got a bonus to hit, to damage, more AC and better cha

[Tacticslion]

Wiggz wrote:

Corragh Bearson wrote:

I know this thread is ancient and your campaign is long-since over, but for anyone looking for resources to do something similar 'The Bastards of Erebus' put out by pathfinder included a whole bunch of alternative layouts for Tieflings that lets you choose different stat distributions based on the type of fiendish ancestor.

Darn. I have GOT to start looking at the OP dates...

I know, right? The other day, I responded to a guy's post with something like, "Hey! I haven't seen you in ages!"

... the post was from around 2009.

:/