Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
It will probably be spelled out in the bestiary. The 3.5 SRD states that elementals are proficient with any weapon in their description. Look at the fire salamander for example flamebrother or something of that sort.
Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
I don't think so (my image of elementals doesn't include an opposable thumb), but lots of folks disagree with my assessment. So ask your DM. :-)
|
Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
the elemental sub-type from the Bestary preview states that Elementals are proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry...
Both weapons you indicate are martial so a humanoid form elemental could use them with non-proficient penalties.
Out of the basic elementals only the earth elemental has a basic humanoid form so in theory only that elemental can use weapons.
It should also be noted that the weapons need to be capable of withstanding the elementals base damage type otherwise they will simply destroy the weapon. for example a quarterstaff wielded by a fire elemental will soon burn out into ash if not protected. elemental movement would also not extend to the weapon so an earth elemental moving through stone would have to leave the greatsword behind.
It is going to come up sooner or later in pathfinder society. A druid is going to drop his weapon and then turn into an elemental, then try to pick up a weapon he is proficient in and use it.
I am sorta inclined to say the any of the elemental could use any objects they wanted as long as the object could withstand their damage.
|
|
It is going to come up sooner or later in pathfinder society. A druid is going to drop his weapon and then turn into an elemental and try to pick up a weapon he is proficient in and use it.
I am sorta inclined to say the any of the elemental could use any objects they wanted as long as the object could withstand their damage.
regarding the damage I would probably rule that the item is considered un-attended and will take damage from an elementals base slam attack plus special...
From the Pathfinder Bestary a Large Fire elemental will deal 1d8+2 damage plus 1d8 burn damage (no save) to a picked up weapon meaning most steel weapons will only last a couple of rounds before gaining the broken condition.
Special attacks such as vortex would also damage the weapon held.
It is going to come up sooner or later in pathfinder society. A druid is going to drop his weapon and then turn into an elemental and try to pick up a weapon he is proficient in and use it.
I am sorta inclined to say the any of the elemental could use any objects they wanted as long as the object could withstand their damage.
regarding the damage I would probably rule that the item is considered un-attended and will take damage from an elementals base slam attack plus special...
From the Pathfinder Bestary a Large Fire elemental will deal 1d8+2 damage plus 1d8 burn damage (no save) to a picked up weapon meaning most steel weapons will only last a couple of rounds before gaining the broken condition.
Special attacks such as vortex would also damage the weapon held.
fire elemental would probably be a bad choice but water, Air and earth could hold objects. It really comes down to how much control a elemental have over their form. I am of the mind that they have almost total control and they could easily make appendages to hold items. As far as I know elementals can grapple and lift things. I can see this as a highly subjective argument all the way around I would rather discuss it here then at a convention.
|
|
fire elemental would probably be a bad choice but water, Air and earth could hold objects. It really comes down to how much control a elemental have over their form. I am of the mind that they have almost total control and they could easily make appendages to hold items. As far as I know elementals can grapple and lift things. I can see this as a highly subjective argument all the way around I would rather discuss it here then at a convention.
Air would probably have difficulty using weapons like bows crossbows or most two handed weapons since they tend to buffer people about with high speed winds. I could see them implementing small and light weapons tunning themselves into a mini blade barrier or hurling shuriken over great distances though.
Water has far more substance than fire or air but would be more clumbsy the greater the weapon size and weight is IMHO. Again I couldnt see them applying form to manipulate bows or crossbows easily but certainly better than an air elemental could.
Earth is the only form that mostly represents a humanoid form as i mentioned before and I cant think of any reason why they wouldnt be able to wield most if not all weapons.
The bigger issue for elementals is the application of the weapons use as a weapon. The fire elemental in the Bestary has an intelligence ranging from 4 to 10. A 4 intelligence is likely to still hit you with its fist even if you give it a weapon. :)
this is out of the Bestiary preview
Fire elementals vary in appearance—they usually
manifest as coiling serpentine forms made of smoke
and flame, but some fire elementals take on shapes
more akin to humans, demons, or other monsters in
order to increase the terror of their sudden appearance.
Features on a fire elemental’s body are made by darker
bits of flame or patches of semi-stable smoke, ash, and
cinders.
This further supports my view that Druids could wildshape into elemental s and take a humanoid shape and use any weapons they are proficient in.
It is going to come up sooner or later in pathfinder society. A druid is going to drop his weapon and then turn into an elemental, then try to pick up a weapon he is proficient in and use it.
I am sorta inclined to say the any of the elemental could use any objects they wanted as long as the object could withstand their damage.
SHHHHHHH dont give my secrets away!!!!
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
Not unless they are written as having the weapon in their stat block. Otherwise they would need to take EWP or some other proficiency feat.
Not unless they are written as having the weapon in their stat block. Otherwise they would need to take EWP or some other proficiency feat.Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
Elementals are outsiders, outsiders are proficient with all martial weapons, great sword is a martial weapon hence elementals are proficient with great swords.
Important note: The are using Icons to show what a monster is in Pathfinder, so make sure you pay attention to those little blips at the start of the monster's entry, as it will give you a lot of basic information right off, such as proficiencies, skills, HD, BAB, and saves.
Elementals are outsidersPoint, I forgot they changed (removed) elemental type in 3.p Bestiary preview.
changed is correct, elemental is a subtype for outsider now, just like devil is.
it specifically says this about Elemental in the Bestiary Preview
Elemental Subtype: An elemental is a being composed
entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth,
fire, or water. An elemental has the following features.
• Immunity to paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and
stunning.
• Not subject to critical hits or f lanking. Does not
take additional damage from precision-based attacks,
such as sneak attack.
• Proficient with natural weapons only, unless
generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient
with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned
in its entry.
• Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium,
or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter
types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not
proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with
shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
• Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
Under fire elemental it states that they can assume humanoid form. Unless I am missing something it looks like they can't use a greatsword proficiently. Unless of course there is elementals that are not outsiders? Is that even possible? Elemental says no and outsider says yes. which one takes precedence?
Hypothetically speaking lets say an air elemental has weapon proficiency longbow could the elemental feasibly use it?
What about earth Elemental and a great sword?
Normally no. Their normal attacks are probably more effective as well.
But elementals are a rather amorphous lot and their anatomy would probably not be a hindrance. If giving an elemental a weapon with wich to battle the party makes it more fun and interesting I would go ahead and do it.
But RAW elementals do not have the proficiencies and have alien minds that would probably not understand the concept of manufactured weapons.
Under fire elemental it states that they can assume humanoid form.
Specifically it says "some [..] take on shapes akin to humans [etc.]". Who knows what that means? A bear has a shape that's "akin" to a human, sort of.
So what I can see from this discussion is that a Druid that wildshapes into an elemental can use weapons (druid keeps her INT) that she is already proficient* with, assuming elemental form taken is humanoid in shape!
This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it and that it can resist the damage (ie. wooden weapons would be no use to a fire elemental).
Then surely this also applies to armor?
Problem being getting armor the right size.
* Druids don't gain the skills, proficiencies and feats of the form they shift into.
So what I can see from this discussion is that a Druid that wildshapes into an elemental can use weapons (druid keeps her INT) that she is already proficient* with, assuming elemental form taken is humanoid in shape!
This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it and that it can resist the damage (ie. wooden weapons would be no use to a fire elemental).
Then surely this also applies to armor?
Problem being getting armor the right size.* Druids don't gain the skills, proficiencies and feats of the form they shift into.
No.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you
into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical
beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into
your body.
So what I can see from this discussion is that a Druid that wildshapes into an elemental can use weapons (druid keeps her INT) that she is already proficient* with, assuming elemental form taken is humanoid in shape!
This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it and that it can resist the damage (ie. wooden weapons would be no use to a fire elemental).
Then surely this also applies to armor?
Problem being getting armor the right size.* Druids don't gain the skills, proficiencies and feats of the form they shift into.
No.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you
into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical
beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into
your body.
Re-read what was said, especially: "This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it [..]"
Re-read what was said, especially: "This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it [..]"So what I can see from this discussion is that a Druid that wildshapes into an elemental can use weapons (druid keeps her INT) that she is already proficient* with, assuming elemental form taken is humanoid in shape!
This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it and that it can resist the damage (ie. wooden weapons would be no use to a fire elemental).
Then surely this also applies to armor?
Problem being getting armor the right size.* Druids don't gain the skills, proficiencies and feats of the form they shift into.
No.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you
into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical
beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into
your body.
I am just showing the pertinent rule.
You do have to have the armor donned after changing and the armor has to have the correct size and be specially crafted to fit the elementals body. Though an elemental can take a shape akin to humans, a shape akin to humans is not necesarily the same as humanoid or human shape.
So what I can see from this discussion is that a Druid that wildshapes into an elemental can use weapons (druid keeps her INT) that she is already proficient* with, assuming elemental form taken is humanoid in shape!
This also assumes she picks it up or gets handed it and that it can resist the damage (ie. wooden weapons would be no use to a fire elemental).
Then surely this also applies to armor?
Problem being getting armor the right size.* Druids don't gain the skills, proficiencies and feats of the form they shift into.
If its allowed in, I am almost certain there was a resizing armor enhancement somewhere in 3.5. Didn't come up much, so I dont remember which book it was in (or if it actually exists). I know it did for weapons. That would solve the size problem in terms of armor. And I am bemused at the thought of watching a huge earth elemental try and put on armor, or better yet party members trying to help the druid with the armor.
Kolokotroni-
I believe it is 'Beastform' You are thinking of, it is an armor ability (+2 bonus equivalent, again, I THINK) Which allows a druid wearing armor with this ability to use the armor in his/her new form. It magically changes to fit the druid's new shape, keeping all of it's armor bonuses and any other abilities.
Can't remember which book! Possibly/probably the MIC?