Thanks for the videos, Caladors. I am now officially whipped up into excitement over these new base classes.
Would have been better had I not made so many happy snaps but it will make me remember the event more.
I only got to catch bits and peices of the GameMaster talk with Jason as we were still playing but I was 'sleeping' so I got to go and watch in between turns when I was seeing if I was woken up or not.c'est la vie...
Once again good old Ned said it best and who says he isn't cultured...
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The #1 thing I'd like to see in the Bestiary I, II or VIII are the templates from Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary. I know the Paizo guys like them because they keep turning up in their adventure paths, so why not tweak them and release them for PRPG? I got more use out of the AB+MM than a dozen monster books.
Please?
Pretty Please??
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Wow, I'm am super excited about the Templar idea, I always wanted a holy warrior for some of the other faiths that weren't LG. I can't wait to see the idea behind it. Same with the Inquisitor, I have some homebrew stuff that will fit that perfectly.
I'll throw my two cents down and say that I like the Oracle name, it's different from some of the recycled 3.5 ideas that have been thrown around. I don't really get any image from a movie conjured in my mind so maybe that helps.
I'm still lukewarm on the Summoner concept but we'll see...
Creative Director
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The #1 thing I'd like to see in the Bestiary I, II or VIII are the templates from Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary. I know the Paizo guys like them because they keep turning up in their adventure paths, so why not tweak them and release them for PRPG? I got more use out of the AB+MM than a dozen monster books.
Please?
Pretty Please??
I can state with authority that these templates won't be in the book. They already work pretty well as-is, for one, and for another we're focusing on actual monsters for the Bestiary line, rather than too many templates.
The Advanced Bestiary's a really cool book though... especially the fact that it's so encouraging of gamers to bend or break the rules of template application. This is good for the game; use templates as guides rather than writ-in-stone rules.
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Gut-Torn Lava-licker
“Failing the Pallid Princess my child can come at a terrible price, imagine the terrible screams of those stretched out over her sacred alter as they are disembowelled with wicked knives and hooks.”
The young acolyte looked up at the ancient priest his face contorted interest and fear.
"Then through rituals horrid and obscene her priests force the soul to remain in the body to experience the constant pain of the disembowelment. For those who have talked too much and given away secrets suffer more pain and horror. Not only are entrails torn from their bodies, their tongues are set a-flame so that the flesh is burnt away from their faces."
"It is said that the Gut Torn can use their intestines to entangle their foes and those with tongues of fire are able to lash their victims up to 10 feet away with unholy flame.”
And that my child is the origins of the colloquialisms “Spill your guts” and “a tongue lashing”.
CE Medium undead
I can't believe that I got to the end of this thread and nobody else said this: THIS ROCKS!
Especially your reference back to common sayings.
Never was a fan of variant paladins, such as the Paladins of Tyranny, Slaughter, or Freedom. HOWEVER, I absolutely love the Evil Paladin Variants from Dragon 312, with the Despot, Corrupter, and Anti-Paladin. The Corrupter, especially, saw a great deal of use as a recurring (and unknown) villain throughout my favorite 3.5 campaign, and the class as a whole is just a beautiful idea. I would love to see that and the Despot given the Pathfinder treatment, but I do suspect it won't happen.
I'll just have to kit it up myself!
And I'm still not jiving with the Oracle. Oracles have been pretty thoroughly defined in D&D and fantasy in general as people who provide information, whether through visions, prophesies, or whatever else. I can't say what I'd have personally called the idea behind the class (possibly "Priest," honestly, though Paragon does work rather well, too), but it just does not evoke the imagery that the class actually has. The class itself does sound cool, but it's not fun having to rename classes for my game, so I guess I'll just have to live with it if I allow it.
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I never understood why other gods wouldn't have thier own holy warrior.
Have a look at 3.5 Living Arcanis - they had Holy Champions for each deity. Most were close to the Paladin with class abilities swapped out, eg a demonic steed instead of a warhorse, variant channeling, etc. Each was highly customised to represent their deity and portfolio and were presented as their own base class.
Have a look at 3.5 Living Arcanis - they had Holy Champions for each deity. Most were close to the Paladin with class abilities swapped out, eg a demonic steed instead of a warhorse, variant channeling, etc. Each was highly customised to represent their deity and portfolio and were presented as their own base class.
I will. Though perhaps I would be better off waiting for the APG
I never understood why other gods wouldn't have thier own holy warrior.Have a look at 3.5 Living Arcanis - they had Holy Champions for each deity. Most were close to the Paladin with class abilities swapped out, eg a demonic steed instead of a warhorse, variant channeling, etc. Each was highly customised to represent their deity and portfolio and were presented as their own base class.
I played in a 2E campaign where every deity had his/her own holy warriors and specialty priests. I thought it was great!
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I will. Though perhaps I would be better off waiting for the APG
True, I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't, I was just pointing out how another campaign has approached this.
Arcanis's Holy Champions were more than just Paladins of other alignments, they actually represented their deity's interests, and had class abilities which reflected this, eg the Champion of Larissa: Fatespinner is built to resemble a Paladin, full BAB, limited spellcasting, channeling, etc. but are any chaotic alignment and do not smite. They also have abilities such as Borrowed Time which enables the character to re-roll an unsatisfactory d20 attack, save, skill-check etc, but this causes a fate debt which has to be paid off by re-rolling her next attack, save, skill-check (eg, d20 roll of the same type which caused the fate debt) whether it would be beneficial to do so or not.
Fatespinners are an example of a Holy Champion who do not crusade an alignment ideal, but instead one of their deity's portfolio - fate/luck domains. I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be Templars that crusade CG or CN alignments and channel energy vs undead, but there could be Templars that champion ideals other than alignments, or put their channel energy to other uses (fire, protection, etc).
Thanks for posting the informations above. The Witch sounds cool, and with a mix of arcane and divine spells, it comes close to my idea of a druidic spellcaster from the historical definition. IIRC, Merlin was defined as a druid/wizard in one edition of the game. The Oracle - well, the name seems to raise some discussion, but I can share paizos PoV on it. The concept sure is cool. I´d love to see their take on the Cavalier.
The Alchemist - well, I guess Jason will come up with cool and useful ideas.
The idea of having common and noble drow is a good one, I think it was that way originally and sure goes a long way to reestablish the image of that race. The LA is (or was) tricky. Back in Basic D&D, there was the concept introduced that the race could have a progression of its own. If you had the bugbear for example, it would progress through some negative levels until it had 3 HD, and then had a racial progression beyond that. There were wildly different XP tables used, and the concept broke down for overly powerful creatures like the Nagpa, but was basically usable. Something similar was written in 3e "Savage Species", but it was integrated into the normal progression, and steal away progression from the regular classes - that was something that did not work out right IMO.
Stefan
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I played in a 2E campaign where every deity had his/her own holy warriors and specialty priests. I thought it was great!
One of the most fun parts of 2E was coming up with Specialty Priests for the various gods. We had a chart from somewhere, perhaps the DMG?, that had 'costs' for various class abilities, and would swap out different access to Spheres, higher or lower HD, higher or lower ThacO progression, different saves, different armor / weapon access, etc. to get the 'perfect' Specialty Priest for each diety.
It was like thirty classes in one!
I played in a 2E campaign where every deity had his/her own holy warriors and specialty priests. I thought it was great!One of the most fun parts of 2E was coming up with Specialty Priests for the various gods. We had a chart from somewhere, perhaps the DMG?, that had 'costs' for various class abilities, and would swap out different access to Spheres, higher or lower HD, higher or lower ThacO progression, different saves, different armor / weapon access, etc. to get the 'perfect' Specialty Priest for each diety.
It was like thirty classes in one!
Hmm... the DMG contained rules for building your own classes IIRC. Of course, this could easily be used to modify the classes given in the PH.
A year or two ago, a few folks on these boards worked out a system of modifying the cleric class (3.59) and fitting it better to the respective gods. The thread was called "the non-generic cleric" IIRC.
Stefan
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"Wherever the deities are known to speak to mortals, some mortals hear their voices with a unique clarity and gain insight into the past, present, and future by virtue of their unusual status. Divine oracles are such mortals, blessed - or cursed - by visions from their deities.
"All divine oracles are spellcasters, and most were clerics or druids before adopting the divine oracle prestige class. Whatever their other classes, all divine oracles share a particular devotion to the Divination school of magic, having mastered all available means to catch glimpses of the future."
Ah, I didn't like that book very much so I forgot that was in there. Still, I like the Oracle better than any other name thrown out.
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I was initially in the "call it the Exemplar" bunch when the idea was first thrown out, but the additional information on how it works helps a lot. Their "cursed" natures and the idea of revelations about the universe (that become class abilities) works pretty well for me!
Looking forward to the playtesting!
I'm also not fond of "oracle". It screams "non-combatant" to me.The same way that "bard" or "rogue" or "monk" does?
The same way "monk" does, yes.
Saying "our class name is just as good as 'monk'!" is a pretty weak argument. :-)
(I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it still sounds like replacing "fighter" with "marksman" to me.)
Will you guys please stop whining about the oracle class name? It has no mechanical impact whatsoever. Just change it to whatever stupid thing you want in your own games.
Good God.
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However, the name oracle does not "associate" with what they are trying to do. Nor is it a strict definition. I agree with your post if there was a connotation with the name to what they are trying to accomplishIt will a month or three or twelve after the APG is printed. Just as monk now associates with "kung fu dude" and paladin associates with "lawful good knight dude."
[derail] And SKR associates with "bald dude (wearing wicked glasses)"...er, doesn't he? ;)[/derail]
But, seriously, even though I personally prefer 'Exemplar' to 'Oracle', I don't see it as a major issue; I can call a class whatever I want in my games. Besides, just as my characters usually don't call themselves by class names; my paladin might say he's a 'Sword of Iomedae' or a 'Templar of Sarenrae', for example.
In general I'm very excited about the announcements; looks like it's going to be a very good year for Pathfinder RPG fans! :)
Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.
Will you guys please stop whining about the oracle class name? It has no mechanical impact whatsoever. Just change it to whatever stupid thing you want in your own games.
Good God.
I will not rest until "oracle" is changed to "less-heavily-armored cleric".
We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
But my prince, "oracle" should clearly be renamed "mystic" based on events in the story of the wise man and the donkey. The tale begins with Asmodeus getting evicted from Hell under the most improbable of circumstances...
But alas, the afternoon grows late. I'll have to finish this fabulous tale on the morrow...
[But, seriously, even though I personally prefer 'Exemplar' to 'Oracle',
I completely agree. I actually have no problem with the name really. I was pointing out some- what I thought- was faulty logic
Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
Oh great. Now people are going to be mad at me
Really, I don't mind the name
Though I do kind of like that Mystic idea.
Dammit. Now its pushed back another day.
I personally prefer 'Exemplar' to 'Oracle'Exemplar has been used by WotC before.
So has Oracle.
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Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
When I read that I clearly heard the sound of the pump action shotgun from Doom being loaded :)
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Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
Slight problem with that, James. It means you're starting the playtest at least three weeks after the book goes on sale, just from the complaints so far.
Slight problem with that, James. It means you're starting the playtest at least three weeks after the book goes on sale, just from the complaints so far.Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
Make that three years, and you are on spot.
James, you made my day with that comment :-)
Stefan
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[But, seriously, even though I personally prefer 'Exemplar' to 'Oracle',I completely agree. I actually have no problem with the name really. I was pointing out some- what I thought- was faulty logic
I agree with you there; I don't think Oracle associates with the class as well as Exemplar or Mystic, but it's not a big thing... 3.5 books were filled with class and prestige class names I felt fit the classes poorly (even more so than Oracle).
Though I do kind of like that Mystic idea.
No no no PLEASE no, I don't want to have to rename my entire ...*ahem* carry on.
Can we now complain about the complaints of the complaints of the name Oracle?
I'm now picturing James hugging his knees, rocking back and forth, and quietly sobbing "Why won't they stop?"
I doubt that. He's a big boy, he can handle it.
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Does anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
Have I mentioned anywhere that I don't like the name Oracle compared to some other names people have profferred like the incarnate? :P
Have I mentioned anywhere that I don't like the name Oracle compared to some other names people have profferred like the incarnate? :P
I've actually started playtesting the Even More Advanced Player's Guide that's due out in 2011.
The cleric class is going to be renamed to "lama".
The fighter class is going to be renamed to "swordsman".
The wizard class is going to be renamed to "necromancer".
The rogue class is going to be renamed to "pickpocket".
Other than that, it's exactly the same as the core rulebook. ;-)
Have I mentioned anywhere that I don't like the name Oracle compared to some other names people have profferred like the incarnate? :PDoes anyone know when the open playtest is going to start? I have a player who is anxious to try out the summoner.We haven't nailed down the start date for the playtests yet, but we push it back a day every time someone complains about the oracle's name. :P
ooooooooooo incarnate is good, then someone could be Strength Incarnate or Fire Incarnate! me like