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So, Jason spills some beans on today's blog.
6 new base classes...and he keeps 2 of them secret. My money is on the Blackguard and the Witch.
Feats, spells, rages, songs... Now I see that Jason chose a modular approach to classes, allowing to expand them via class features and not just new feat-o-rama.
Items, Spells...here's to hope for updating and consolidating crunch from previous Paizo books.
Open Playtest... yummy. So this is how you roll with designing new sourcebooks, not just a marketing gimmick (like some PF critics claim), but the new wave of RPG design. Splendid.
I'm curious if they are going to do iconics for each of these classes. And if so, can we finally get some half-orc love.
Alchemy FTW.
I am a huge fan of all things alchemical, I am really looking forwards to getting my hands on that class. It certainly sounds interesting.
I would also be interested in a 'Witch' class, especially if it focused itself around Fae magic, illusion, pact making and curses.
Alchemy FTW.
I am a huge fan of all things alchemical, I am really looking forwards to getting my hands on that class. It certainly sounds interesting.
I would also be interested in a 'Witch' class, especially if it focused itself around Fae magic, illusion, pact making and curses.
Agreed. I think the ones I'm most looking forward to are the Alchemist and the Summoner. The Cavalier sounds pretty neat, too, though, as battlefield control has always been an interesting part of the game. All in all, I'm just lookin' forward to the whole book!
Summoner.
Yaaaaaaaaay, and finally.
I can't wait for this book!
It's profoundly perfect for my group: One of my players is a cavalier type guy, another has been dying to play a legitimate alchemist class, another would kill for a summoner class, and, well, I guess the oracle is just the oracle, and it sounds sweet.
Open playtest here we come.
Ahhh, heck. Now I'm looking forward to this book too. I'll need to get a third job to support my Paizo addiction.
I'm looking forward to the Oracle. It seems like it may be a nice fit to my homebrew, and an option for more pantheon based worshipers. My world is more like ancient Greece/Egypt where clerics support a group of gods/ideals, and are more counselor, non-armor wearing, prophetic types.
The Cavalier sounds interesting too. It reminds me of the Knight class, which if I remember correctly, had some interesting abilities, though I never got to see one in a game.
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I like the idea of the "Oracle" class, just not the name.
At one point in time I was considering putting "philosophers” into my homebrew game. There were going to be clerics without gods dedicated to a domain or two.
Maybe Exemplary would be a better name, than Oracle.
Ah who knows.
I LIKE that name a LOT better than Oracle.
Truthfully when I first heard there were to be new classes I was rather "ehh" about the whole idea, fearing a glut of splat books like WOTC did, just shoving books out the door for the cash flow.
But after looking these first four classes over I must say I am very very excited. Both the niche and rough mechanics sound intriguing and fun to play. I can see them being a great addition to the game, unlike 99% of the splat classes from WOTC.
The last thing I wanted to add was about the picture accompanying today's blog. That is an AWESOME picture. I love that look and style. Hats off to Sarah, the art director and whoever the artists is. Fantastic picture!
They sound great. I want to play an oracle. It takes the favored soul/spontanoues divine caster and makes it fascinating in concept. The role-play possibilities are endless
I like the cavalier from the old days. It seems to be an interesting concept. This one I need to see more on what it can actually do
The summoner and alchemist are great. To me, I thought "wow what great villians for a campaign" and I still think that would be great roles for them, especially the Summoner.
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The Alchemist sounds awesome. I could see that old article in Dragon being a good supplement to the class. Do you guys remember which one I am talking about? It was pretty much just a list of alchemical agents and items that could be created without magic but caused magic-like effects when employed. Does anyone remember which issue of Dragon that was in?
Tam
The summoner sounds a bit like the Psion Shaper with a permanent Astral Construct, although with less detailed control on how their creature's is shaped.
Truthfully when I first heard there were to be new classes I was rather "ehh" about the whole idea, fearing a glut of splat books like WOTC did, just shoving books out the door for the cash flow.
But after looking these first four classes over I must say I am very very excited. Both the niche and rough mechanics sound intriguing and fun to play. I can see them being a great addition to the game, unlike 99% of the splat classes from WOTC.
The last thing I wanted to add was about the picture accompanying today's blog. That is an AWESOME picture. I love that look and style. Hats off to Sarah, the art director and whoever the artists is. Fantastic picture!
Ditto what Krome said :)
I'm really looking forward to the alchemist and the "oracle." In the end, I'm thinking probably a name change as well, we'll see.
Core class variants! Yhea! Do I smell a "cloistered cleric" variant in there?
Can't wait!
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Core class variants! Yhea! Do I smell a "cloistered cleric" variant in there?
Can't wait!
Why on earth would they waste their time on that when Adamant just published the Cloistered Cleric as the Priest in Tome of Secrets (just add d8s of Channel Energy to the Cloistered Cleric if you don't want to buy the separate book.)
I can't say that the new classes do anything for me. I have a hard time seeing Alchemists standing up with Wizards or Sorcerers. Now if Alchemy was like that in Full Metal Alchemist I'd be all in (Item Creation and Enviromental Control with a decent BAB :D). Cavalier sounds like Knight from 3.5 PHB 2 which was good but not thrilling to me. Summoner, I hope that the class is really suffering from the name cause the pokemon trainer or the "this is my monster character... and the guy who follows it around) is less then appealling. Oracle is the one I'm looking forward to, as I think the Spontaneous Divine caster is a long time coming (Favored Soul was silly IMO) and, if the comparison to Hercules is an indication, the Demigod aspect could be fun.
I am curious to see how Paizo intends to avoid having us have to hunt through all our suppliments for X. I'm assuming they will be going with Book of Prestige Class, Magic, etc and then maybe updating them with II or III of such books. Any thoughts?
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Cavalier does indeed sound like the Knight... the name is a bit odd, though. This is just my opinion, but I'd try to come up with something that doesn't so quickly relate to "fighter-on-horseback".
Summoner, as a class name, sounds like an upgraded/variant Conjurer -- not a fan of the name. As with Cavalier, I'd consider changing the name for something else.
Orace and Alchemist sound nice, although both could work better as PrCs, IMO *Shrug*.
One of the two unmentioned classes must be the Blackguard; I preferred it as a PrC, but I must admit that I'm interested in seeing how it plays as a base class.
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Cavalier does indeed sound like the Knight... the name is a bit odd, though. This is just my opinion, but I'd try to come up with something that doesn't so quickly relate to "fighter-on-horseback".
Summoner, as a class name, sounds like an upgraded/variant Conjurer -- not a fan of the name. As with Cavalier, I'd consider changing the name for something else.
Orace and Alchemist sound nice, although both could work better as PrCs, IMO *Shrug*.
One of the two unmentioned classes must be the Blackguard; I preferred it as a PrC, but I must admit that I'm interested in seeing how it plays as a base class.
1e Cavaliers weren't solely focused on mounts. They basically had Weapon Training with swords, lances, and maces and flails, as well as an Aura of Courage-like ability.
Cavalier does indeed sound like the Knight... the name is a bit odd, though. This is just my opinion, but I'd try to come up with something that doesn't so quickly relate to "fighter-on-horseback".
I agree. Cavalier means "member of cavalry" which means "fightin' type fella what rides a horse."
I know (as the other poster notes) there have been Cavalier classes in older versions of D&D not focused on mounted combat, but it seems silly to continue the fallacy. It took me a long time to realize Cavalier traditionally meant "horse-mounted warrior" and not "that jerk Eric from the D&D cartoon." I'd rather not anyone else suffer the humiliation. ;)
If it's more of a field marshal type character with a few mounted abilities, I'd go for something more like... I dunno... "Marshal." Or for a rougher connotation, "Warlord." Or as suggested, "Knight." Or perhaps if we wanted to be obscure, "Bachelor." Or a "Bogatyr." Or maybe even a "Mamaluke"?
I like the idea of the "Oracle" class, just not the name.
At one point in time I was considering putting "philosophers” into my homebrew game. There were going to be clerics without gods dedicated to a domain or two.
Maybe Exemplary would be a better name, than Oracle.
Just a general observation, but this niche would be suited well for those clerics of Aroden who can't seem to let him go and have not made the switch to other deities; this could offer them an opportunity to be able to tap into some spellcasting source while adhering somehow to the original precepts of their faith.
I wonder if the same can be said for Paladins who wish to continue to serve Aroden under similar precepts...
Creative Director
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I am curious to see how Paizo intends to avoid having us have to hunt through all our suppliments for X. I'm assuming they will be going with Book of Prestige Class, Magic, etc and then maybe updating them with II or III of such books. Any thoughts?
I have a thought on that... basically, we won't be doing a hundred different books that keep giving out new classes, feats, spells, prestige classes and the like. The hope and goal is to get the majority of the expansion stuff like this into the Advanced Player's Guide, to be honest. Then, with rulebooks beyond that, they'll have tighter focuses—we're unlikely to ever do a book like "The Big Bard Book" or "The Fighter Compendium" or something like that. Nor do we have plans to come out with sequels to these; no Advanced Player's Handbook II or III. We'll be turning our attention to other things, be they an Epic Book or an Asia Book or a Moon Exploration book or whatever, but these additional books' themes will be more focused. These books WILL likely have new spells and feats and prestige classes and base classes, but they'll be closely tied to that book's theme (and will be less numerous than the amount of stuff we're putting into APH) so that should really help in tracking down where things are.
If it DOES get too complex, we'll just make up some online index thing for folks to use for free.
Since the PRPG is open, there will be plenty of books along those lines from other publishers (such as the Tome of Secrets), in any event.
I am curious to see how Paizo intends to avoid having us have to hunt through all our suppliments for X. I'm assuming they will be going with Book of Prestige Class, Magic, etc and then maybe updating them with II or III of such books. Any thoughts?I have a thought on that... basically, we won't be doing a hundred different books that keep giving out new classes, feats, spells, prestige classes and the like. The hope and goal is to get the majority of the expansion stuff like this into the Advanced Player's Guide, to be honest. Then, with rulebooks beyond that, they'll have tighter focuses—we're unlikely to ever do a book like "The Big Bard Book" or "The Fighter Compendium" or something like that. Nor do we have plans to come out with sequels to these; no Advanced Player's Handbook II or III. We'll be turning our attention to other things, be they an Epic Book or an Asia Book or a Moon Exploration book or whatever, but these additional books' themes will be more focused. These books WILL likely have new spells and feats and prestige classes and base classes, but they'll be closely tied to that book's theme (and will be less numerous than the amount of stuff we're putting into APH) so that should really help in tracking down where things are.
If it DOES get too complex, we'll just make up some online index thing for folks to use for free.
Since the PRPG is open, there will be plenty of books along those lines from other publishers (such as the Tome of Secrets), in any event.
Really, all I want to do is thank you for putting all this information in one big book rather than spreading it out in a collection of smaller books over the year. It is invariably cheaper and easier to reference. One of the things I love about Pathfinder is ditching all of the books that I used to have to bring to a game. Now I have one (though it is a big one).
Hmmm... I'm not sure what to think.
I was particularly interested about this quote from the blog:
"You will not find them in every adventure, nor will they appear in every product." (Which, of course, implies that they will appear in adventures.)
I am very curious to hear how much harder it will be to use Paizo's upcoming APs if I'm not interested in this book.
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I LIKE that name a LOT better than Oracle.I like the idea of the "Oracle" class, just not the name.
At one point in time I was considering putting "philosophers” into my homebrew game. There were going to be clerics without gods dedicated to a domain or two.
Maybe Exemplary would be a better name, than Oracle.
Ah who knows.
Me too, sort of...
Exemplary is an adjective: the noun is 'exemplar'.
A person who is exemplary is an exemplar, just give it a capital letter at the start to show it is a proper noun and you have got a name for a base class: Exemplar
Why on earth would they waste their time on that when Adamant just published the Cloistered Cleric as the Priest in Tome of Secrets (just add d8s of Channel Energy to the Cloistered Cleric if you don't want to buy the separate book.)
The Tome of Secrets his on my "to be looked at" list, I kind of got side-tracked by that huge book that I got in the mail last weekend! ;)
I like the idea of the "Oracle" class, just not the name.
Maybe Exemplary would be a better name, than Oracle.
All of this is still in the works, so expect different names. These are really at little more than the code name stage now, though some might stick. It's happened before. I do like "Exemplar," there might be something there.
Summoner. Yaaaaaaaaay, and finally.
That's kind of my thought! The idea has been around forever, but I've never seen it effectively executed in a table top RPG. In video games, tons and I love it, but its never made the jump to the table. I'm really excited because via the druid animal companion rules we have a system for advancing a creature based on a character's level, and via the many Beast Shape, Elemental Body, Polymorph types spells we quantify that players can/should gain access to monster abilities at specific levels. Mesh them together and you've got the core conceit for this (and the Diabolist prestige class in Book of the Damned, by the by). What I'm also excited about (can you tell I'm this class's champion? Erik's is the "cavalier," James's is the "alchemist/addict," and Jason's is the "oracle/avatar") is that if we play our cards right, this can be our Demon Summoner, Angel Binder, Fey Caller, Corpse Stitcher, Dream Shaper, Spirit Tamer, etc, etc, etc, all in one. I expect a lot of resistance to this one, though, as it's hard to point to fantasy literature and say this class is Merlin, or Strider, or Elric, but expanding beyond that there's a lot of examples in video games, film, animation, and elsewhere that make for some very exciting source material, inspiration, and possibilities.
I am very curious to hear how much harder it will be to use Paizo's upcoming APs if I'm not interested in this book.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. One of two things are going to happen. Either we'll do what we do with books like the Tome of Horrors and books like that and give you all the stats and rules you need to run them when we feel they're appropriate to use, or we'll make the classes open content and you can get them right online via the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document. No worries baby, we've got you covered.
I'm making the first prediction of a half-orc cavalier.
Oooooooh... I do kind of like that. We try really hard to keep things even. We've got six boy iconics and six girl iconics. So safe bet is that we're going to have three new boy and girl iconics. We also skipped out on the half-orc, so he's going to be one. We've also got one heavily armored human guy, and one heavily armored human girl, so good bet that another heavily armored class isn't going to be human. And, with the grim and grittiness of the class, half-orc does feel like a nice fit. Hummm humm hummm. Now as for gender...
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I'm making the first prediction of a half-orc cavalier.Oooooooh... I do kind of like that. We try really hard to keep things even. We've got six boy iconics and six girl iconics. So safe bet is that we're going to have three new boy and girl iconics. We also skipped out on the half-orc, so he's going to be one. We've also got one heavily armored human guy, and one heavily armored human girl, so good bet that another heavily armored class isn't going to be human. And, with the grim and grittiness of the class, half-orc does feel like a nice fit. Hummm humm hummm. Now as for gender...
Besides the half-orc will all the new class Iconics in this book be human? Or are you planning to use more of core books races? Perhaps something from the bestiary (Tengu I'm looking at you) Or even a new race or two in the new book?
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I like the name Oracle. I don't understand why so many are dissing on it.
The most famous oracle in western culture is the oracle at Delphi - a woman who would advise upon the success of plans and ambitions by conferring with Apollo, the god of knowledge.
So, for me, and I'm guessing for many others, oracle is a word that actually connotes both an intense relationship with a god and a passive role in the wider world.
This suits neither an adventurer nor a god-free divine caster.
I am very curious to hear how much harder it will be to use Paizo's upcoming APs if I'm not interested in this book.I wouldn't worry about it too much. One of two things are going to happen. Either we'll do what we do with books like the [i]Tome of Horrors[i] and books like that and give you all the stats and rules you need to run them when we feel they're appropriate to use, or we'll make the classes open content and you can get them right online via the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document. No worries baby, we've got you covered.
Any chance on updating the Archivist!?! The class alone sold the book to me. Well, that, and having Taint always attracts us maho-tsuki.
Besides the half-orc will all the new class Iconics in this book be human? Or are you planning to use more of core books races? Perhaps something from the bestiary (Tengu I'm looking at you) Or even a new race or two in the new book?
Hah! That's a fascinating prospect. There's a number of strengths to using the classes in the Core Rulebook, the most important probably being recognizably. So don't expect "Scagglejuk "Dirksong" Stagmitter: Iconic Roper Bard" any time soon. Same goes for most other monstrous combinations, though who knows if we start heading into more experimental territory (aka playing monster rules) down the line. You can also expect the Summoner to have an iconic beastie with him, ala Lini's iconic snow leopard Droogami.
All of that being said, don't expect all humans. We've already talked to Wayne a bit about these and he's got some very cool ideas as far as race-class combos work out. There will doubtlessly be a new human or two, but expect to see some other demihuman genders aside from those we've presented so far.
Any chance on updating the Archivist!?! The class alone sold the book to me. Well, that, and having Taint always attracts us maho-tsuki.
Sadly no. We simply can't do updates of non-open WotC classes. Though don't worry, with James and I on staff, expect plenty of gothic/spooky/morally questionable characters and potentially classes in the future.
This open playtesting and dialoguing is a really neat way to tweak and stay fan-friendly (plus, ya know, actually test things). Seeing Jason say that new classes need to fill new mechanical and conceptual niches puts me at ease, as this has been my biggest complaint with new classes since the first 3.5 splatbook.
Here are my 2C on each class:
Cavalier-I'm glad to hear you guys have a clear cut "this is how it's different from the bard." I'm still worried about overlap with the paladin, but I can see how there's room for all three in most campaigns.
Alchemist-Conceptually, this is really exciting, as I don't think there's currently a good way to play this. Mechanically, it has me a little bit worried. I think there's trepidation amongst gamers(or maybe it's just me) over systems that are "magic but not" or that "work like magic but aren't," especially with transformation spells already possible. What makes the alchemist different other than fluff? Also, with precision damage (wisely) taken away from splash weapons, there's no real way to make a non-magic bomber, so I'd hope they get increased damage with alchemists fire the way a monk does with fists.
Summoner-Man this sounds awesome. My players and I love pet-based characters (My game looks like "His Dark Materials). Even more exciting is that, instead of lame-o "his pet IS his magic system" he's a normal system-compatible spell-caster. One of my players already wants to change his character to one.
Oracle-I'm very intrigued by the example of Hercules as an oracle. Does this mean they're more domain-based than the sorcerers are bloodline based? I can see an interesting, if rare, place for this niche in campaigns. Though, I gotta say, man that's a wonky name for that class. What about Champion, Avatar, Incarnation, or the other suggestions posted here?
PS: Any idea when the playtest for these classes will be?
What I'm also excited about (can you tell I'm this class's champion? Erik's is the "cavalier," James's is the "alchemist/addict," and Jason's is the "oracle/avatar") is that if we play our cards right, this can be our Demon Summoner, Angel Binder, Fey Caller, Corpse Stitcher, Dream Shaper, Spirit Tamer, etc, etc, etc, all in one. I expect a lot of resistance to this one, though, as it's hard to point to fantasy literature and say this class is Merlin, or Strider, or Elric, but expanding beyond that there's a lot of examples in video games, film, animation, and elsewhere that make for some very exciting source material, inspiration, and possibilities.
I think I'll call my first Summoner "Rydia" or maybe even "Yuna". At last!
I think I'll call my first Summoner "Rydia" or maybe even "Yuna". At last!Rydia. Fewer people will get it, so it will be cooler when they do.
There's totally going to be themes of that - lord knows I've been looking at similar fan-based conversions for enough years. But really, I think the PFRPG rules finally give us the frame work to really to this shtick right. So yeah, go for it! ^_~
So uh is that a no to there being new races in the advanced players guide?
As far as I know, at the moment there are no plans for additional races. The Bestiary is going to have some digressions on that matter, though, so don't worry, you'll be well served until we get back to that topic in more detail.
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So uh is that a no to there being new races in the advanced players guide?As far as I know, at the moment there are no plans for additional races. The Bestiary is going to have some digressions on that matter, though, so don't worry, you'll be well served until we get back to that topic in more detail.
Okay (begins to silently hope that since they put bird people in they may have put in cat people as well)
