I decided to do this little post after reading the "Clever Half Orc" thread and the topic of hybrids cropped up. This is a very, very simplistic post on what *could* happen.
Lets begin with an orc (OO) and a human (HH) they get jiggy and produce two half orcs (OH).
Two half orcs (OH)have four children, they have an Orc (OO), a Human (HH) and two half orcs (OH).
So lets complicate things a bit and have the Orc gene being the dominate gene.
(OO)x(hh) and you get two half orcs which look very orcish (Oh).
(Oh)x(Oh) and you get one orc (OO), two very orcish half orcs (Oh) and a human (hh).
And with the human gene being dominate.
(oo)x(HH)= two human looking Half orcs (oH)
(oH)x(oH)= two human looking Half orcs (oH), a human and an Orc.
And a Human looking half orc with a human. Human dominate.
(Ho)x(HH)= (HH) and (oH)
And as above with Orc dominate
(OO)x(Oh)= (OO) or (Oh)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Fair enough, my friend, assuming that genetics work on Golarion the same way Mendel found they work in the real world.
An Allegedly True Story: Long ago, in the age when the gods of the giants and the gods of the orcs were not so different, Haggakal the Sister pulled her ungainly body up from the peat-bogs of Sesqual and lurched over to Haggakal the Brother, who was keenly observing something in the distant winter plains.
"What do you see?" asked the Sister.
"Oh, my loved one," replied the Brother, smacking his lips. "It would seem that one of our smaller folk is in rut with one of Aroden's flock, there, in the lands far to the north."
"I didn't know they could do that!" announced the Sister. Her Brother merely shrugged.
Haggakal observed for a time. "I think they sleeping now, spent," said the Sister.
"Yes. I was not sure if it would be deadly for either of them, but it would seem not."
After a time: "The female, she is with child," pronounced the Sister, as if in judgement.
"Yes. What of it?"
The Sister looked horrified at her Brother, and kicked him in the face, which made a noise as loud as thunder, but sick and wet. "The child is one of ours! We must offer our blessings."
At that, Aroden emerged from a mountain cave, only 40 leagues away from Haggakal. To one side, he was followed a dark god of the Derro, whose name was never well-known and now lost. The two looked calm but a little impatient, as if they had been interrupted while speaking of grave matters. Aroden turned to the ogre gods and raised his left hand. "No, great ones. Your gifts are too much for this child. He is destined to carve a great city into these mountains where I stand now, but never rule it. He will be its first defender, its greatest general. He is mine, and you cannot have him."
The Sister was besides herself with wrath and snorted great gouts of yellow steam. The Brother demanded, "This is too much, too much even for you, most foolish of wise ones. One of our lesser children has claim to it, and so do we."
Aroden cocked an eyebrow at that and turned to his companion. "How do you like that?"
The derro god was used to such things as competing claims and murderous rages, and this did not faze him in the least. "Each of you, appoint a midwife champion. The challenge should be simple, obvious, and unquestionable. A wrestling contest. A race across the ice floes. A javelin-throwing contest. Whichever of your champions succeeds, that god may bless the infant.
And so it was. Whenever an orc and human lay with one another, to this day, the midwife champions, Skarahk and Junifer, compete for the heritage of the children. Some days, Skarahk wins, and the child is born orc. On other days, Junifer wins, and the child is human.
But Skarahk and Junifer are well-suited to their tasks, and each is the match for the other. When their games tie, as happens often, the child receives blessings from both, and is half-orc, half-human.
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I decided to do this little post after reading the "Clever Half Orc" thread and the topic of hybrids cropped up. This is a very, very simplistic post on what *could* happen.
Lets begin with an orc (OO) and a human (HH) they get jiggy and produce two half orcs (OH).
Two half orcs (OH)have four children, they have an Orc (OO), a Human (HH) and two half orcs (OH).
So lets complicate things a bit and have the Orc gene being the dominate gene.
(OO)x(hh) and you get two half orcs which look very orcish (Oh).
(Oh)x(Oh) and you get one orc (OO), two very orcish half orcs (Oh) and a human (hh).And with the human gene being dominate.
(oo)x(HH)= two human looking Half orcs (oH)
(oH)x(oH)= two human looking Half orcs (oH), a human and an Orc.And a Human looking half orc with a human. Human dominate.
(Ho)x(HH)= (HH) and (oH)And as above with Orc dominate
(OO)x(Oh)= (OO) or (Oh)
or you could just accept that:
ORC x ELF = Seven foot tall linebacker with Pointy ears. (AKA MIDDEN ELF)
ELF x HUMAN = 6'6" tall greek God(AKA PLAGUE ELF)
ELF x TROLL = 8' Tall Namek with hair (AKA BOG ELF)
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Yes, but Skarahk and Junifer want to know what to do when a half-orc, with blessings of both gods, mates with a pure human, or pure orc. Nevermind elves, gnomes and manticores.
Then there is another explanation: The god of wine occasionally gets the other gods exceedingly drunk and they go around blessing the wrong children, explaining all sorts of interesting miraculous births and prodigies.
The genetics argument is fine, except that it is predicated on a single orc specific Gene (OO). It is far more likely that the Orc will be OOOOOOOOOOOO while the human would be HHHHHHHHHHHH giving us all varieties of O/H pairings to make up our beloved Half Orcs.
Batts
If humans and orcs are distinct and separate species, then half-orcs would not be able to reproduce.
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Yes, but Skarahk and Junifer want to know what to do when a half-orc, with blessings of both gods, mates with a pure human, or pure orc.
The same thing, actually. Half-orcs mating with humans sometimes produce humans, sometimes half-orcs, and even, once in a while, pure orcs.
Fraternal twins, curiously, are never the same species.
Then there is another explanation: The god of wine occasionally gets the other gods exceedingly drunk and they go around blessing the wrong children, explaining all sorts of interesting miraculous births and prodigies.
The halfling / velociraptor thing was a real embarrassment.
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If humans and orcs are distinct and separate species, then half-orcs would not be able to reproduce.So coyotes, wolves, and domestic dogs are the same species? Why don't they all have the same scientific name, then?
I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
Umm you mean CANIS Latrans, CANIS LUPUS, and CANIS LUPS Familiaris?
Umm all members of the Canis Genis and two of the same species, Canis Lupus?
I fail to see your point?
The genetics argument is fine, except that it is predicated on a single orc specific Gene (OO). It is far more likely that the Orc will be OOOOOOOOOOOO while the human would be HHHHHHHHHHHH giving us all varieties of O/H pairings to make up our beloved Half Orcs.
Batts
Off you go then! LOL!
HA! You should have been around for the elf/hamster fiasco!
The halfling / velociraptor thing was a real embarrassment.
Richard Gere is an ELF?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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For a more nasty take on the half orc option, make their gentics more viral in nature so it splices itself into the genetic code of a host and reproduces that way. No dominacne or recessive, just a series of genes or chromosomes purely coded for from the orc side of things.
Genetically, only one part (allele) of a gene is ever shown, the other remains dormant. So with a viral orc trait, the offspring only have partial genetic material, or single allele genetic material. This happens in nature (viral DNA exists in human DNA, and Parthenogensis only occurs becasue an organism can be built from only half the DNA as long as all the genes are coded for.)
OR
It could be all magic.
Cheers
Let it be known that in days of old, I encountered the so-called "god" of genetics - actually a demon lord. I was disgusted at his weird, completely unmagical view of things, and promptly slew him.
I might have been tricked into it by Calistria, who was appalled by the implications that if elf and human can interbreed, and orc and human can interbreed, there might be the possibility that elf and orc could interbreed. That, along with many other weird combinations, has forever been slain witht their vile patron.
Now, if you want to have crazy stuff like a bear with an owl beak, you'll have to use magic. With magic, everything is still, more or less, possible.
I am amazed that nobody has as of yet discussed dragon genetics here. The blighters are more or less fertile with ANY sort of creature. There have even been reports of a half-dragon iron golem!!! (The mother felt it was very embarrassing to be hit on by a dragon) Furthermore, they can promptly mix and match (at least there are tons of reports of this) colours, such as pink, orange, purple and the dreaded green (blue/yellow hybrid, not to be confused with the ordinary green dragon).
And there lies our answer to what killed the demon lord of genetics. All it took was giving him a book of dragon genetics. =)
If humans and orcs are distinct and separate species, then half-orcs would not be able to reproduce.So coyotes, wolves, and domestic dogs are the same species? Why don't they all have the same scientific name, then?
I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
The ability to mate and produce fertile young is the most widely-accepted scientific definition of species (I know that ornithology does not use this definition, but that's their problem).
A horse and a donkey, for example, are defined as separate species because while they can mate and produce a mule, the mule cannot bear offspring of its own.
Wolves (C. lupus lupus) and dogs (C. lupus familiaris) share the same scientific name down to species, and can hybridize and produce fertile young. Coyotes (C. latrans) can hybridize with dogs as well; however, after a few generations there began to be significant fertility issues. So this is something of a gray area.
In sum, I'm probably being way too anal retentive about a fantasy game.
I am amazed that nobody has as of yet discussed dragon genetics here. The blighters are more or less fertile with ANY sort of creature.
Definetly. Try tell Dahak (or even Apsu) that their mortal children can't do that. Ever been burned by divine dragonfire? Wanto to? Then do what I just said.
I am amazed that nobody has as of yet discussed dragon genetics here. The blighters are more or less fertile with ANY sort of creature.Definetly. Try tell Dahak (or even Apsu) that their mortal children can't do that. Ever been burned by divine dragonfire? Wanto to? Then do what I just said.
Like dragons themselves, dragon sperm has all strong saves and the good BAB. It also has several powerful resistances and attack options. There's not an egg in this reality that can withstand dragonsperm!
For a more nasty take on the half orc option, make their gentics more viral in nature so it splices itself into the genetic code of a host and reproduces that way. No dominacne or recessive, just a series of genes or chromosomes purely coded for from the orc side of things.
Genetically, only one part (allele) of a gene is ever shown, the other remains dormant. So with a viral orc trait, the offspring only have partial genetic material, or single allele genetic material. This happens in nature (viral DNA exists in human DNA, and Parthenogensis only occurs becasue an organism can be built from only half the DNA as long as all the genes are coded for.)
OR
It could be all magic.
Cheers
How about a bloodline "curse" like Deep Ones in Innsmouth...