RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I've decided on trying to make my first game with the official Pathfinder RPG a dungeon crawl without using monsters. I plan on creating an adventure of just Traps. I'll be using both traps of my own design and traps crafted by others like those found in Grimtooth's Traps. I plan on using "interesting" traps, no matter how the dice (or PCs) fall. But careful selection of Traps will be key as I plan on starting PCs at 1st Level.
I'm hoping this'll make for some good RP. If the game goes well, I plan on progressing the game into more "traditional" things (i.e. monsters, villians, rescue the prince, etc.)
Does your party have someone to find traps?
If no, how will they deal with this situation?
If yes, what are the other PCs doing while the trapfinder is at work?
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I did a dungeon like that once for a group I was running in college (back in the 2E days). I thought it turned out pretty well.
If you want any advice, the only thing I can really think of is: get creative with your traps. Make sure you have at least a few new, out-of-the-ordinary encounters. Something to make your characters work and your players think. Or at least say, "What the heck?" 8^)
I had a great time doing this with an all-rogue party several months ago. I used Traps & Treachery and its sequel and put in every interesting trap I could find, but I toned the lethality way down for my low-level party. They were after the treasure of a deceased thieves' guild master who had hidden it in a specially-designed warren, and he didn't want to kill people so much as impress them with how much cleverer he was than them.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Does your party have someone to find traps?
If no, how will they deal with this situation?
If yes, what are the other PCs doing while the trapfinder is at work?
First, I need a party. At the moment my fellow gamers are scatted to the Four Corners. When I am ready, I shall hunt down those who have been saying "need like to get a game going" and I will stab them with my plastic sporks! Until they agree to be in this game.
When it comes to make the PCs, I'll suggest to them that someone should play a Rogue. I will probably mention that the first adventure may be monster-lite or advise them to choose their gear exceptionally well.
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Does your party have someone to find traps?
If no, how will they deal with this situation?
If yes, what are the other PCs doing while the trapfinder is at work?
Good points Lathiira. If you have a traditional party, most of the PCs will not have any trapfinding skills. You might want to incorporate some "traps" such as a portcullis that requires strength to bypass, some riddles than int or wis can solve, and some that make use of diplomacy (magic mouths, etc). That way the entire party can be involved to some extent.
Personally, I'd be a little ticked as a player if I never got to kill something during a game session, so perhaps some of the traps involve something that requires attack rolls to destroy a component of the trap.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. Good luck with the game.
Director of Narrative
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KissMeDarkly, when you get to it and need some handy traps, you might could use some of the fine traps that have been web articles on the Kobold Quarterly site. Here's a link to the main articles page. Just scroll through looking for headlines like Tuesday Traps or Trapsmith.
First, I need a party. At the moment my fellow gamers are scatted to the Four Corners. When I am ready, I shall hunt down those who have been saying "need like to get a game going" and I will stab them with my plastic sporks! Until they agree to be in this game.
When it comes to make the PCs, I'll suggest to them that someone should play a Rogue. I will probably mention that the first adventure may be monster-lite or advise them to choose their gear exceptionally well.
You might not suggest that someone play a rogue at all. That's your call. If someone volunteers, great. But note some of the other comments below about traps that can let the whole party get involved. Otherwise, you may well have everyone but the rogue playing solitaire outside the dungeon while the rogue runs from place to place rolling Search and Disable Device checks.
You might want to incorporate some "traps" such as a portcullis that requires strength to bypass, some riddles than int or wis can solve, and some that make use of diplomacy (magic mouths, etc). That way the entire party can be involved to some extent.
I agree with WarEagleMage, something along the lines of a tournament style of adventure where everyone gets to participate. I've played in a few of these kind of campaigns and they were tons of fun. Riddles can be fun and there's a thread about that around here somewhere. DEVICES/PUZZLES, not so much traps, would be another way to go... stuff based on levers, colors, numbers, linguistics, specific rooms, secret doors... fun for the whole family!
Personally, I'd be a little ticked as a player if I never got to kill something during a game session, so perhaps some of the traps involve something that requires attack rolls to destroy a component of the trap.
I think I have to agree here also, I get a bit anxious when things go too uneventful. Maybe a trap that spawns monsters, like a Monster Generator in Gauntlet(video game). Not really a unique concept, typically undead or animated statues work in this manner. Could use Monster/Nature's Ally Summoning as per the spells... "you pull the left lever and you hear the sound of static electricity crackling from down the hall"
I'm sure you might have this in mind already, but:
The idea sounds great, just don't think "d20", think "Indiana Jones". Make traps that require Knowledge checks, others that require raw strength/weight-lifting, or acrobatic skills, or even plain common sense (ie Wisdom checks).
It can be a blast for everyone involved as long as you step away from the cliched flowchart of Perception OR Saving Thow THEN Disable OR Saving Throw. And don't forget giant rocks that get them running!
One could argue that there could be summon monster traps, after all.
One could argue that there could be summon monster traps, after all.
I included some. (My "all"-rogue party took along a barbarian for muscle.) There are also traps that drop you into rooms you can put monsters in: zombies, for instance, and spiders.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Dogbert, I definately plan on doing this more like Indiana Jones and Goonies. I planned on having traps that the PCs could work through regardless of what class they are, about 1/2 of the traps. I'm using some of the Challenges from Dungeon and looking up some more puzzles to work into the over all theme.
Daniel, I'll check out the thread(s) you're talking about. For some reason I totally zoned out and didn't think to search the forums here or over at RPG.net for stuff. This will change.
Riddles... are still up in the air. Unfortunately, most of the riddles I Googled won't work. I need to look around for some good ones, if any, to put into the game. I'll also give the players the option of solving them either with a Knowledge Check or to actually solve it themselves.
Monster Summoning traps... no. I'd prefer not. I want to try for a 100% monster free adventure. BUT I'll also ask my players what they'd think of playing a module free of fighting monsters. That will be the final decider. BUT, I'll make sure to have 4-5 prepared just in case I have to "fix" this on the spur.
Haunts... I'm on the edge about these. I loved the haunts of ROTR #2: The Skinsaw Murders. But Rise of the Runelords had a very concrete way of deciding which PCs set off which haunt. I'd need to come up with something that'll work for this adventure.
Also, I've named my dungeon for the purpose of this game. It is the Shrine of the Seven Lucky Gods. So I'm going to work out a dungeon that has seven levels to it. Probably even work "Seven" into the puzzles/riddles/challenges as much as possible. I'm trying to decide what should be the 'goal' of the party. I'm thinking of using a quest for a Tome of Leadership and Influence +3 that I'll be calling 'The Path of the Seven.' They've been charged with this task by the local Pathfinder Society.
Thanks for the advice so far. Keep it coming.
I would be very weary of an all traps dungeon. While it makes for an interesting intellectual exercise for you, it may not be very fun for them. Now a trap-heavy dungeon is fine. But just remember that your players get something very different out of this than you do.
That said, there are some really good classic trap-heavy and riddle-heavy dungeons out there to work with as a starting point.
Also as far as seven levels go, might I suggest seven areas on one big level with a central area if the god has a head pantheon. In a way you can make the layout of the dungeon a riddle as well.
But I very much agree with the previous posters about avoiding the search or save/disarm or save pattern if you want your players to have fun.
I would include a few summoning traps. Give the fighter-types something to thwack. Exactly what gets summoned could depend on how the trap is approached/handled?
I would include a few summoning traps. Give the fighter-types something to thwack. Exactly what gets summoned could depend on how the trap is approached/handled?
You can also use monsters as hazards, like a pit with a giant octopus at the bottom of which you only see the tentacles lashing out and you have to run while dodging and weaving.
...either that or sharks with lasers on their heads. =D
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There is a great article on riddles that appears in Dragon 175, and is also reproduced in Dragon Compendium.
For anyone not familiar with Dragon Compendium, it was released in 05 by the great folks here at Paizo. It has some great 3.5 / potential Pathfinder stuff in it. It is even still available here on paizo.com.
Tam
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if you go with an adventure that is heavy traps and has no monsters you might consider ensuring there are traps that will appeal to other classes than just the Rogue.
Magical traps may need to be disabled with Knowledge (Arcana) to select the proper glyphs, Knowledge (Nature) might be appropriate for a riddle. And maybe some traps just need some muscle from the Fighter, such as stopping a doorway from closing or stopping a falling stone. Maybe a positive energy burst destroys the spell that would have gone off killing party members.
Just be sure that all classes have something to contribute to the adventure or you will find a lot of players watching TV and browsing the web instead of paying attention.
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The High Road/Low Road.
The PCs need to split into two groups to advance one group takes the high road, the other takes the low road. The two groups can see and communicate with each other by yelling.
PCs will set of traps/devices of the other group, the PCs will have a limited amount of time to get through to the next room.
For example:
The Low Road party steps into the first area of the low road. (Fighter and Wizard)
The High Road party then steps into the first area of the high road. (Cleric and Rogue)
Suddenly the walls begin closing in on the low road. The fighter uses his mighty strength to hold back the walls while the wizard approaches the door - it is made of steel with a large round knob. A riddle written in Draconic reads:
"The door was unlocked, but an hour before
one minute to die, one hour to live."
The answer is the wizard must declare that he's going to open the door by turning the handle counter-clockwise. The "one minute to die" refers to how long the walls will take to close in enough to crush the characters to death. Characters can hold the wall back by making a DC 20 str check, halting the wall's progress for 1 round.
Once the wizard figures this out and turns the handle it opens the door ahead on the high road, but also triggers the High Road trap. The nature of this trap is up to you...
I suggest reading "The Seven Ancient Wonders" and "Six Sacred Stones" by Mathew Reilly, there's some great trap ideas in there.
Monster Summoning traps... no. I'd prefer not. I want to try for a 100% monster free adventure. BUT I'll also ask my players what they'd think of playing a module free of fighting monsters. That will be the final decider. BUT, I'll make sure to have 4-5 prepared just in case I have to "fix" this on the spur.
There's lots of interesting advice here, but I think the absolutely biggest, glaringest [sic] advice here is the advice you seem (almost) determined to disregard.
There really are only two options here.
1. Everyone plays a rogue, or a very rogue-like character. That way everyone can partake in the finding/disabling/circumventing the traps.
2. Everyone who doesn't play a rogue-like character must have something useful to do in proportion to what the rouge is doing.
Regarding point 2, the "in proportion" part is extremely important. If your rogue is single-handedly searching every 10', poking, prodding, delving, and ultimately finding the traps, then disabling them, while 3 or 4 other players watch, those 3 or 4 other players will be bored to tears.
And you cannot placate them with letting the fighter lift a portcullis and letting the wizard solve a riddle. Nor will the cleric be placated using his channel energies to heal the damage when the rogue fails by 5 and sets off the fire trap.
These other 3-4 players must have something for their characters to do that allows them to contribute as much as the rogue is contributing, or you as the DM have failed them.
Make sure that whatever you decide, you keep this point firmly in mind.