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So I've got a True Neutral but negative energy channeling cleric of Pharasma that wants to start his own cult. I've never run a game with a PC that had a long-running group like that (including taking the Leadership feat) so I'm a little anxious about how this might turn out.
The PC ("Gobbie") wants to start a cult of undeath based on one principle: that undead are not evil destroyers of life or thieves of souls, but instead are tools to be used for the good of the people. His cult's unholy symbol will be a flame with the symbol of Pharasma embedded within it. (Sort of a "guns don't kill people, people kill people" attitude.)
I have quite a few thoughts on this. My first one is that we're just starting Escape from Old Korvosa, so he's not going to have time to build such a cult very soon. But also I'm wondering if the Church of Pharasma may not take exception to his cult and try to wipe him out. I'm sure they're not going to be happy about their holy symbol being usurped. Since the party just finished up at the Hospice, I'm thinking perhaps Gobbie has selected the wrong deity.
I've looked through all 23 issues of the APs and haven't found a write-up of Pharasma. I have the Guide to Korvosa but nothing there, either. :(
I probably have a couple of weeks (maybe three) before I need to do something about his desire for the cult. I would GREATLY appreciate some advice on how to proceed.
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Well, first what are your thoughts on it. As DM you are the ultimate authority on what Pharasma and the other gods think in your version of the game world. If this is something that works for you then you can run with it. If it isn't something that works for you, then you oppose it. From there you just have to decide the level of your support or Opposition.
From there, here are some thoughts on how you could handle it.
PC runs with the idea and you support it on some level. Then you decide if his god is still the correct one, I would tend to agree with your assessment that Urgathoa may be a better choice, though that really isn't exactly her take on it either from my recollection. So, either convince the player to convert to Urgathoa or allow agents of Urgathoa to tempt him to their dark side...or Pharasma's priests summon/descend upon PC with force/forceful presence. Nothing quite like having a bunch of your superiors dropping in and yelling at you to get you to change your ways. Or a combination. Have the Pharasmaites drop in do some yelling/pursuading maybe even inquisitioning (after all no one expects the inquisition) then have the Urgathoan's make a play for a conversion.
Urgathoa may not take to kindly to the PC, however, since the PC is hanging with those that took down one of her Favorites, Lady Andaisin...
PC runs with the idea and you hate it...Pharasma's clerics torment the PC all the way up to Pharasma pulling support if need be. Nothing like a cleric with no spells or Channeling to remind folks that the gods are real in the game world and you cross them at your own risk... Urgathoa not only refuses to help the PC but maybe even actively thwarts the PC's attempts to control or use undead.
There is another god to consider, Zon-Kuthon. However Zonbaby (As one of my Players has called him) has all kinds of other issues with the Party
A lot of rambling, ultimately you know your party and know your players you'll have to decide how to handle it best. This kind of thing, however, may also be handled really well with a conversation outside the game. Find out if the Player is totaly into this plan or just mulling funny thoughts around.
Good luck.
The PC ("Gobbie") wants to start a cult of undeath based on one principle: that undead are not evil destroyers of life or thieves of souls, but instead are tools to be used for the good of the people.
Wow. You could have SO much fun with this...
...'course... that's just me. (evil grin).
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Well, first what are your thoughts on it. As DM you are the ultimate authority on what Pharasma and the other gods think in your version of the game world. If this is something that works for you then you can run with it. If it isn't something that works for you, then you oppose it. From there you just have to decide the level of your support or Opposition.
The player and I have been conversing via email. He thinks that there are souls that inhabit the undead and he sees his cult as being a "liberator" of sorts. Intelligent undead (that can't be controlled) are resurrected, or destroyed if necessary. Unintelligent undead are kept in a warehouse awaiting some future use. One of his arguments for this approach is that Pharasma's holy text talks about what happens when the last soul departs the Prime Material plane. Apparently there's another entity (starts with a "G") who's waiting for that to happen so they can perform some act. And his cult thinks the act is to destroy the world. By keeping an undead around, the last soul will never depart the plane.
My argument with his world view and pantheon view doesn't really matter much. After all, he's a PC and he can believe whatever he wants to believe. Priests have been doing that since religion was created to soothe man's fears. ;) However, I want to have the groundwork laid out so that if/when he consults a sage to find out more, I can tell him what that "more" is.
PC runs with the idea and you support it on some level. Then you decide if his god is still the correct one, I would tend to agree with your assessment that Urgathoa may be a better choice, though that really isn't exactly her take on it either from my recollection.
Agreed. Urgathoa is closer in my opinion, although not an exact match.
Nothing quite like having a bunch of your superiors dropping in and yelling at you to get you to change your ways. Or a combination. Have the Pharasmaites drop in do some yelling/pursuading maybe even inquisitioning (after all no one expects the inquisition) then have the Urgathoan's make a play for a conversion.
Oooo, I like that idea! I definitely see this going only so far before the Church of Pharasma takes an interest. A strong interest. A strong NEGATIVE interest. ;)
PC runs with the idea and you hate it...Pharasma's clerics torment the PC all the way up to Pharasma pulling support if need be.
That would be an excellent choice for Pharasma as well, yet it drives the worshipper into the arms of another deity. And if you think that the cosmology of deities is such that they gain power by having worshippers, most deities wouldn't push away a worshipper without some very good reason.
Urgathoa not only refuses to help the PC but maybe even actively thwarts the PC's attempts to control or use undead.
Heh-heh, I like that idea, too. :)
There is another god to consider, Zon-Kuthon. However Zonbaby (As one of my Players has called him) has all kinds of other issues with the Party
Yeah, I don't think Zon fits very well. This PC isn't into pain so much as undeath.
Wow. You could have SO much fun with this...
...'course... that's just me. (evil grin).
I want to say "thank you" to both of you! This is exactly why I posted my question here -- I was looking for these kinds of ideas.
I think I'll let the PC build a cult and do whatever he's going to do, then wait until some key moment to either have the Church of Pharasma wail on his a**, have Pharasma pull his spells, or involve Urgathoa either in a conversion attempt or an attack to release the penned up undead. (As I mentioned, this player thinks the cult will corral the undead and keep them contained until needed later. Urgathoa won't be happy about that, I think. Well, unless it's his cult doing the corralling!)
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According to the Campaign Setting, Pharasma's clergy (and presumably Pharasma herself) "despise undead as perversions of the natural order". I'd say they would be more than unhappy if they found out about this cult. The word "purge" springs to mind.
And Uragotha, as the goddess of undead is a much better patron.
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The player has come up with a new argument: why does Pharasma have the Death domain? This is a domain that bolsters and creates undead!
I have to admit that this is a strong indication that Pharasma doesn't consider it too big a problem, even if her clerics do.
Of course, I know that the domains are changing from Beta to Final, but that doesn't really help me right now. :) I also know that the Death domain is probably there for evil-aligned clerics who are expected to be antagonists in the story line and not PCs, but that doesn't change the fact that a NN cleric could channel negative energy and select the Death domain. :(
I'm thinking that either the Death domain should be removed or those abilities to create undead should be replaced.
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The Death Domain is part of Pharasma because Pharasma is all about death. Doesn't mean it's something that is encouraged, well I mean death is encouraged, but undeath is not.
There are several ways to look at this. One, story wise. Pharasma is a goddess of Fate, Death, Prophesy and Birth. So let me ask you, what would you say if I told you that Death Weren't a domain of this goddess?
Also, Death Domain, while still in flux, fit's; in that there are non-undead raising Death affects, admittedly not as many and not as cool. Yes the domain is about the Necromancy, but let's remember that even cleric's of Pharasma will be pulled to the dark side, not all are going to be the absolute Neutral that Pharasma is. But some, won't be able to help being pulled to the good side either.
I go back to my original post above, it's up to how you see Pharasma. There are no Paizo Police about to knock on your door and demand that you undo part of your game because you had the audacity to allow a player to play his character the way he saw fit...there should be but there aren't ;) If you want to let this player go ahead and do this, that is totaly up to you. Go for it. As long as all have fun and no one besides the NPC's get hurt or go to jail, then all is well. If, on the other hand, Paizo police show up and throw you all in jail for perversion's of their illustrious game...well use your one call to let me know...I have a lot of skeleton's to bury...
Personally. I would tell the player to give it up, Pharasma isn't buying it. If that doesn't stop him I'd say, fine go ahead. And then I would drop the Pharasma bomb on them and follow it up with the sympathetic Zon-Kuthonites or Urgathoans. Probably the Zon-Kuthonites. They like their undead quite a bit. Doesn't really mater a lot. Either of them would love to get their paws inside the party and see what makes it tick.
I agree with Brutesquad. A goddess of Death without the Death domain would be wrong, but just because a domain exists, doesn't mean that they approve of certain uses of said domain.
But this is your game, so your call is the one that finally counts. As long as you are happy, your players are happy, and things are consistant, go with what feels right to you :)
Edit: In my game, we're adding a new character/player. He wanted to play a paladin, but of the deities available, Pharasma was the one who intrigued him the most. So he's playing a paladin that we're calling a "Holy Warrior" of Pharasma. The character is Neutral Good, has all the paladin abilities and penalties, just shifting the alignment one step, and is really gung-ho on defeating undead, which he sees as abominations :) Not standard, but we're happy, the other players like it, so we're good to go!
So I've got a True Neutral but negative energy channeling cleric of Pharasma that wants to start his own cult. I've never run a game with a PC that had a long-running group like that (including taking the Leadership feat) so I'm a little anxious about how this might turn out.
The PC ("Gobbie") wants to start a cult of undeath based on one principle: that undead are not evil destroyers of life or thieves of souls, but instead are tools to be used for the good of the people. His cult's unholy symbol will be a flame with the symbol of Pharasma embedded within it. (Sort of a "guns don't kill people, people kill people" attitude.)
I have quite a few thoughts on this. My first one is that we're just starting Escape from Old Korvosa, so he's not going to have time to build such a cult very soon. But also I'm wondering if the Church of Pharasma may not take exception to his cult and try to wipe him out. I'm sure they're not going to be happy about their holy symbol being usurped. Since the party just finished up at the Hospice, I'm thinking perhaps Gobbie has selected the wrong deity.
** spoiler omitted **
I've looked through all 23 issues of the APs and haven't found a write-up of Pharasma. I have the Guide to Korvosa but nothing there, either. :(I probably have a couple of weeks (maybe three) before I need to do something about his desire for the cult. I would GREATLY appreciate some advice on how to proceed.
I'm pretty sure the rest of the worshippers of Pharasma would view this cult as heretical in the extreme. Isn't there something in that Gods & Magic book that says something to the effect that Pharasma isn't a fan of undead? I could be wrong.
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If your Pharasma even allows him to use her power(or if some other entity does so undercover...):
Having run a cult in another game(long story), I gotta stress that the player has his followers keep a low profile. Not only will they likely draw down the thunder from the mainstream Pharasman church if they operate out in the open, they're likely to be seen as outlaws. And Korvosa is a bad place to be considered an outlaw.
I'm not sure if animating the dead is actually listed in the crime & punishment sidebar in the Korvosa guide, but going by the standards of those that are listed, they're probably looking at torture and execution at the very least. But hey, if you're operating a subversive cult, you're gonna have some risks.
One of the demon lords(check AP #18 for more on them) would likely take an interest in this fellow.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hmm, sorry I'm late to the dance, but here's a thought from Green Ronin's Hamunaptra about the plethra of deities in their setting:
Maybe his 'cult' will start out as followers of an aspect of Pharasma, but start to merge aspects of Urgotha. I don't remember if Golarion deities draw power from worship, but the merging of the two deities 'aspects' into a new faith might be tolerable to both since they gain worshipers.
Also, when he's talking about 'warehousing' undead is he meaning undead that are already created, or going to a cemetary, animating undead like extras in a Michael Jackson video, and then storing them for future use?
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The player and I have been conversing via email. He thinks that there are souls that inhabit the undead and he sees his cult as being a "liberator" of sorts. Intelligent undead (that can't be controlled) are resurrected, or destroyed if necessary. Unintelligent undead are kept in a warehouse awaiting some future use. One of his arguments for this approach is that Pharasma's holy text talks about what happens when the last soul departs the Prime Material plane. Apparently there's another entity (starts with a "G") who's waiting for that to happen so they can perform some act. And his cult thinks the act is to destroy the world. By keeping an undead around, the last soul will never depart the plane.
I can't remember off the top of my head if Pharasma herself has issues with the undead, though I know as a rule her clerics do. I'm pretty sure she's not a big fan as intelligent and incorporeal undead impede the natural life-cycle of souls and corporeal undead prevent proper funereal rites. Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion there's a Pharasma-specific spell or item that prevents a body being used to create undead. I'll check the campaign setting and Gods & Magic when I get home, see if I can find anything more concrete.
The god that begins with a G I can help with as I was reading The Great Beyond a couple of days ago ;). That would be Groetus, he takes the form (or has some association with, or something, his status as an ancient, mysterious and mostly unworshipped god of the end times makes all this rather fuzzy) of a moon in a decaying orbit around the Boneyard (Pharasma's realm). Whenever the moon gets too close a soul of an avowed atheist is sent up from the Graveyard of Souls and is consumed, which causes it to move away again. No one knows what will happen if it ever reaches Pharasma's Spire in the centre of the Boneyard but it's probably Not Good.
Hope that's helpful, mostly it seems that he's dead-set on keeping Groetus away he should be brushing up on his philosophical arguments and converting as many people as possible to atheism in order to increase the number of souls available to keep Groetus buffered :P. Even going for the "Last soul on earth" thing, keeping mindless undead wouldn't help as mindless undead don't have souls, they're essentially automatons animated and empowered by negative energy. Intelligent and incorporeal do have souls, albeit ones that generally get twisted by the influence of the negative energy plane.
Obviously all the above is just my personal knowledge of Golarion, at the end of the day, you're the GM and if you want to play about with Pharasma, Groetus, or the way undead work, you should go for it :).
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I can't remember off the top of my head if Pharasma herself has issues with the undead, though I know as a rule her clerics do. I'm pretty sure she's not a big fan as intelligent and incorporeal undead impede the natural life-cycle of souls and corporeal undead prevent proper funereal rites. Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion there's a Pharasma-specific spell or item that prevents a body being used to create undead. I'll check the campaign setting and Gods & Magic when I get home, see if I can find anything more concrete.
I would very much appreciate that! You can either post the results here or drop me a note at azhrei_fje at yahoo dot com. Thanks. :)
Whenever the moon gets too close a soul of an avowed atheist is sent up from the Graveyard of Souls and is consumed, which causes it to move away again. No one knows what will happen if it ever reaches Pharasma's Spire in the centre of the Boneyard but it's probably Not Good.
I didn't know about the atheist angle. Very interesting stuff.
Thank you every for your input -- as I said in the OP, I've never had a player create their own cult so this is all new stuff to me.
I'm going to let the PC build his cult and continue to pray to Pharasma for spells ... up to 4th level spells. In the beginning, Pharasma won't take notice of a few spells being cast that create undead (if the PC even decides to do that), but the clerics of the Church might notice in the long term. It would be very interesting if the Church of Pharasma came after the cult and then ZK or U came to their aid!
The player has warned me that they'll be taking the Leadership feat next level (coming up soon) so maybe their cohort will even be a worshipper of ZK or U? I'll have to think about that a bit.
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Yeah, so Pharasma is pretty damn anti-undead, few excerpts from Gods & Magic:
"She opposes undeath as a desecration of the memory of the flesh and a corruption of a soul's path on its journey to her judgement."
"The church despises undead as abominations to the natural order, and all priests follow this belief without question; creating undead is forbidden and controlling existing undead is frowned upon."
Also, her holy text The Bones Land in a Spiral includes sections on how to dispose of the dead in order to prevent undeath, and one of the abilities of the Pharasma-linked magic item in G&M the icon of the midwife is to consecrate a body so it cannot be animated as an undead if buried within 24 hours.
It's worth noting, that she's in no way anti negative energy or necromancy though. It even specifically mentions "White necromancers" who worship Pharasma and study necromancy without using the creation of undead, which I guess links into the death domain thing too.
Don't see any mention of that Groetus thing that your player mentioned, both G&M and the campaign setting say little more than he's the uncaring god of the End Times worshiped mostly by solitary mad-men and is represented by and possibly resides in the moon over the Boneyard.
I like your ideas for how it's going to go down :). If U or ZK don't fit or would cause plot issues have you considered an Archdevil or Demon Lord? Geryon (Archdevil of snakes & heresy) or Orcus (Demon Lord of undead & necromancy) spring to mind. Ooh, or Sifkesh, Demon Lord of heresy & suicide, she specifically tries to seduce priests into betraying their religion in ways that would cause their church's reputation lingering damage, which creating a cult that creates warehouses full of undead certainly has the potential to do :). There's more info on her and Orcus in the fantastic Demon Lords article in PF18 if you're interested...
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Yeah, so Pharasma is pretty damn anti-undead, few excerpts from Gods & Magic:
"She opposes undeath as a desecration of the memory of the flesh and a corruption of a soul's path on its journey to her judgement."
"The church despises undead as abominations to the natural order, and all priests follow this belief without question; creating undead is forbidden and controlling existing undead is frowned upon."
Thank you so much for the help!
It looks like I'll need to get my hands on a copy of G&M. But man, money is tight right now. :(
If U or ZK don't fit or would cause plot issues have you considered an Archdevil or Demon Lord? Geryon (Archdevil of snakes & heresy) or Orcus (Demon Lord of undead & necromancy) spring to mind. Ooh, or Sifkesh, Demon Lord of heresy & suicide, she specifically tries to seduce priests into betraying their religion in ways that would cause their church's reputation lingering damage, which creating a cult that creates warehouses full of undead certainly has the potential to do :). There's more info on her and Orcus in the fantastic Demon Lords article in PF18 if you're interested...
And yet more great information. I haven't read through the two APs on either side of CotCT yet, although I've skimmed the articles looking for details on Pharasma (I found Desna, Shelyn, and others, but not Pharasma).
I'm going to have the PC start their cult and then get a visit from the Temple of Pharasma. The PC can then decide what direction they want to take it.
Azhrei,
If you have access to the Runelords AP, check out the monster description of the Lamia Matriarch in Pathfinder #2.
The lamia's, according to lore, originated with an order of Pharasma's priests who became corrupt and followed their own selfish agenda.
Even though it is a monster description, it gives you a good insight into Pharasma.
-Paradox
Just to chime in some, Pharasma having (and possibly granting) the Death domain would/could be filed under "know thy enemy and his powers", imparting knowledge that the faithful of Pharasma can put to use against enemies of her faith.
Plus, I could also envision the Church of Pharasma employing such knowledge as a final, dreadful curse or threat against clergy and believers who stray from her true path - a la "the Mummy", cursing a poor heretic sod to linger on forever outside her benevolent graces and being anathema to all her believers, keeping him/her away from the afterlife. She is the Goddess of the eternal balance of Life - for each birth, there _needs_ to be a death as a counterweight, and no-one is going to cheat her on that subject. Interrupt that cycle by keeping people's bodies slaving away in the here and now seems.... hmm, if souls are actually "alive" in some sort of Afterlife, has anyone considered how they feel about their shed mortal shells and its deserved rest after years of labour and pain ?
For inspiration how "Dark Knowledge" of the "enemy" might corrupt her servants (as seems to be the case with regard to your player's character), I could recommend the WH40k novels of the "Eisenhorn" cycle by Dan Abnett, which, while darkly fantastical sci-fi in nature, feature an inquisitorial servant of a religion straying and crossing, then re-crossing the fine line between un-orthodox faith and outright heretical actions. Fighting fire with fire is possible, but a very very risky tactic, if entertaining.
But basically, you player's character appears as doomed - trying to re-define central tenets of your chosen diety's faith, or even switching to the service of a competing or antagonistic power is..... asking for Trouble, to say the least. Major Trouble !
Polytheistic gods are never forgiving about their servants who stray from faithful service in historic myth or even mock or question them (lesser offences by far) , and I see little reason for them being so in fantasy. Other clerics and faithful of that diety will probably be granted signs and visions warning of the "false prophet" arising, making them quest to face the heretic and reafirm the faith and its supremacy. He might even get arrested and forcefully asked to defend his thesis before a council of knowledgable priests or be excommunicated from Pharasma's Order forever - and be marked as an enemy of her Faith.
Remember, that a priest receives many of his/her powers for_faithful_ service of a divine being's tenets and portfolio, the _spirit_ of the divine's faith and one's strength of belief in it.
Stray, and one become's little more than a raving, powerless missionary or madman.... the dieties choose their servants and grant them power, not the other way around !
Gamewise, the party's Harrow deck might start spouting messages of doom and Ill Omen, and Pharasma may even strike the PC with stigmata as a stern warning. Dark dreams may haunt him, questioning his erroneous believes, showing him the "folly" of his intended ways. Suddenly becoming sensitive to sunlight, having one's spells not working because SHE has refused to grant their power and perhaps even the nuisance of not being able to function as a normal human being (like enjoying good food, feeling emotion or experiencing the pleasures of the flesh...) might be deemed a sensible "warning" shot. One, Tken back only after serious chargrined Atonement has occured. If ever....
Animals may shy away from him who becomes closely linked to promulgating undeath, sensing the disturbance of Life radiating from him/her
Also, having one's mortal remains slave, ahem work on, even after one's soul has finally shed them for the afterlife will cause a great many people, and their descendants equally so, to feel strongly about the sanctity and respect shown to the afterlife. Who would sit idly by when a "prophet" raises the bones of your beloved wife of thirty years so he can provide cheap and inexpensive labour ? or the remains of your child, cruelly taken from you through accident or disease, just because the sekeleton would make such a handy chimney sweep, in death ?
Hearing of someone disrespecting age-old traditions and believes with regard to this will likely draw people's ire, shown in many ways from being cursed, shunned and even attacked violently (from being pelted with garbage to outright attack) by upset commoners.
The same goes for unskilled workers who will have their honest hard labour providing them with income threatened by the wageless and uncaring undead. A dozen muscular dorkworkers showing their umbrage should be a discouraging encounter down this particular alley. Not necessarily threatenening the PCs directly, but upsetting their employers, through strikes, dumping cargo and freight overboard or setting fire to the warehouses of those "taking honestly earned bread away from good citizens".... and thereby threatening the interests of Korvosa's rich and busy, who will have the ear of infulential people.
The Shoanti, with their intense respect for the buried bodies of their dead, might look upon someone like "Gobber" with marked disgust, making part 4 of the AAP very difficult indeed. Oh, and plotwise, just take into account that the high-priestess of Pharasma is a leading figure of the resistance to Ileosa in part 6 of the AP.
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Wow, THANK YOU, vikingson! That was an extremely well-written treatise on the situation!
I look forward to deny Gobbie the occasional spell -- growing more frequent over time -- and then instilling some of the undead traits you mentioned: inability to taste or feel, sensitivity to sunlight, and so on. At the extreme end, I can see Pharasma saying something along the lines of, "You like the undead so much -- you ARE one now!" and *poof* he becomes a low-level undead (perhaps a skeleton or zombie), just as though he'd died and been animated as a corpse, but with a very limited existence as Pharasma would send a vision to her faithful informing them of a "vile infestation" and its whereabouts.
Thanks again -- that will be very useful fodder for my imagination!
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I would let the player run with it, making him believe that Pharasma is supporting his cause even if her church opposes it. His access to spells won't falter but that's because his cult is secretly being supported by Urgathoa. She is the one providing his power. It would make for an interesting revelation. Perhaps the Goddess of Undeath is manipulating this cleric and his cult to undermine Pharasma's power. Or, perhaps, there is some other sinister plot going on.
I know you are using an AP, so diverging too much from the core plot would likely not be ideal for you. But it could be an interesting subplot revolving around this character. Not only does he have to deal with Pharasma's mainstream church, but at some point he has to deal with the knowledge that Urgathoa used him and his possible denial of her "gifts" might turn her cult against him as well.
Wow, THANK YOU, vikingson! That was an extremely well-written treatise on the situation!
I look forward to deny Gobbie the occasional spell -- growing more frequent over time -- and then instilling some of the undead traits you mentioned: inability to taste or feel, sensitivity to sunlight, and so on. At the extreme end, I can see Pharasma saying something along the lines of, "You like the undead so much -- you ARE one now!" and *poof* he becomes a low-level undead (perhaps a skeleton or zombie), just as though he'd died and been animated as a corpse, but with a very limited existence as Pharasma would send a vision to her faithful informing them of a "vile infestation" and its whereabouts.
Thanks again -- that will be very useful fodder for my imagination!
You know there are some specific undead created from heretical priests, right ---> points at the Huecuva (Fiend Folio, p.94) who is specifically created from a cleric failing his divine vows by turning to evil and falling from his faith.
Sounds tailor made^^
As an aside - never let a PC twist a diety's agenda to fit his personal play for power. The gods have faced this before and will face it again, but they will never compromise on their servants trying to lead their masters around by the nose.... and usually have something screaming "poetic justice" lined up for their wayward servants.
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Co-owner - Battlegrounds to Board Games
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I have a player in my game that is treading the same path. He sees himself as a Harbinger of Pharasma Helping those who about to die before their time and hastening the death of those whose time has come. He is Neutral and he has the domains of Healing and Death. Now this is by no means a power gaming sort of player but I have been running SDAP for them and now my party is about half way through 6th level. He knowa Pharasma frowns on undead but not being able to use some of your domain spells kinda sucks and I don't want to screw him out of his domain spells. Personally I don't think Phrasma needs the Death domain in the first place, Repose seems a better fit and she already has it anyway. It seems like Pharasma offering you these spells like a rope to hang yourself with.
I was thinking of trying to come up with alternative domain spells other than the create undead spells. I thought of maybe making up a new undead creature like a supplicant of Pharasma whose soul has been weighted and is found wanting and serves out a penance by assisting Pharasma's mortal servants. These would be Nuetral souls willing to inhabit a corpse (not necessarily the dead person's original soul) to assist the Pharasmic priest for a limited time. I also thought of creating a new spell to replace create undead with something like "Recall to Life" which would bring a soul back to life (albiet perhaps at a limited capacity). This would be only for the duration of the spell and the formerly dead creature would not be considered undead but a living craeture for the duration of the spell. Since it was already dead it would be fearless and would not be under the control of the caster but would have an attitude of Helpful for Diplomacy.
The other thought would be to use deathless from BoED/Ebberon.
Please let me know what you guys think as I only have 1 to 2 more sessions until he is high enough to get Create Undead.
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Well, my player decided on a different approach. He committed harikari on himself and was reincarnated as a bugbear (other threads here cover the issues involved in that!).
The new creature chose to revere a "philosophy" instead of a deity (as Pharasma) and chose different domains, so I didn't have to worry about it.
If anyone else wants to become a cleric of Pharasma IMC I'm going to simply inform them that the Death domain is not available. While I understand the idea behind the domain and how it fits with the deity, the powers _granted_ by the domain don't! Another possibility would be to allow those powers but only to attempt to command undead who are currently being commanded by someone else as a manner of turning them against their creator, then releasing them when the immediate threat is over. This nerfs the power quite a bit, but IMO fits better with why Pharasma may provide access to the domain.