So, the Bard preview has people talking about what they like and dislike about little Lem and his preview. And some of it has devolved into how powerful fighters are, and how bad the monk preview will be, and the age-old "role" vs. "roll" debate.
So here's a thread to discuss not the bard as previewed, but rather, the bard as we wish them to be.
Let's assume, for this thread, that we won't roll the bard completely back to 3.5 - instead, we'll use the Pathfinder Core bard, or as much as we know from the preview.
And now let's add some houserules to fix the problems we perceive with that version of the bard.
I'll start.
I think the biggest concern I saw from the preview thread was the change to music by the round. I saw two concerns:
1. Not enough rounds to function throughout the day.
2. Some uses, especially Inspire Competence, require so many rounds (or minutes, or even hours) that the bard cannot possibly enhance these activites.
So I propose to fix that first.
1. What if we double the number of rounds the bard gets per level. So at first level, the number of rounds is 8 + CHA and each level after that is 4 additional rounds.
This would give Lem 46 rounds instead of 28. That should be enough for 4 combats with quite a bit left over for non-combat uses.
2. What if we modify the bardic music ability to allow for non-combat use that allows a bard to use two rounds worth of his daily allotment to give him one minute of effect, and then restrict this usage so that the bard cannot attack or cast spells while performing in this fashion. Further, he can use two minutes (four rounds) to give him 10 minutes of effect, and he can use two 10-minute effects (8 rounds) to grant a 1-hour effect, and lastly two hourly effects (16 rounds) to grant an 8-hour performance.
This would allow a bard, even with a CHA of 10, to assist in item creation by the time he's level 3. He could assist in climbing a 500' cliff (100 rounds in the worst case, not counting falling and starting over) using just 8 of his daily rounds of performance, so he can do this at level 1 if he must.
These are somewhat off the top of my head. Improvements welcome.
And please don't limit replies only to this houserule. Any suggestions about improving or houseruling the bard are very much welcome.
This is almost exactly what I was thinking while I was reading the bard thread.
How many rounds/day a bard should have was highly contentious, but it's also pretty simple to fix with a house rule (unlike say, the problems with multiclassing spell casters). Once you have a consensus about the right number, you house rule that number either by fixing the uses at each level or reverse engineering a rule that gives those numbers.
Another possible house rule is to allow the bard to extend an existing use of music at no daily usage cost by concentrating. If the rogue is taking 20 to pick a lock and wants the bard to help, he can, but the bard isn't doing much else during that time. (This does prevent the bard from using aid another and bardic music, that seems reasonable. You can't help someone in too many ways.) It's then also possible to inspire the troops for their day-long march without running out of music uses.
In combat, it's unlikely to be used because the bard has better things to do with his standard action than conserve a fairly plentiful resource. Also, if he's attacked, it risks ending the effect. OTOH, it does allow the bard to finish out that final, climatic battle even if he runs out of free music.
It's likely that you wouldn't want both this modification and Blake's second rule, since they're different ways of accomplishing the same effect. Or maybe you do, since more options are good.
My solution, and it will probably not work for everyone, is going to be that if I am not measuring time in rounds then I won't be counting it against their daily limit. That way, when they want to do things like inspire the workers to dig faster they can do it all day but when the pressure is on because they need to open a door before reinforcements show up in 5 rounds, then I will count it against their daily limit.
Edit: clarified first sentence.
Give the Bard 1 Performance per level of Bard + Cha Modifier per day.
Cap the buff abilities so that they only last for 1 minute per performance. Cap the debuff abilities so that they only last for 5 rounds per performance.
You still manage resources, but not at the per round [Profession: Bookkeeper] level. No cheesy sing for 16 hours BS.
This puts uses of Bardic Music duration on par with spells that achieve the same effects.
Give Bards who want to play more of the Enchanter roll a reason to buff their casting stat while letting Marshal Bards focus on other stats without having to give up their iconic ability.
This would give Lem 46 rounds instead of 28. That should be enough for 4 combats with quite a bit left over for non-combat uses.
You might just as well go back to the smaller number with longer durations. I wouldn't want to track the equivalent of burning through a fully charged wand every day. Could you imagine Lem at level 20? Eeek!
If you want to keep the new system in tact, just say that it costs two uses of bardic performance, along with continued concentration, to do anything that extends over a long period of time. You get twice the amount of performances that you used to get (I think) and you still can sit in the back and do nothing but perform (and attack) at the same cost that you used to if that's what you want to do. Seems like that would make everyone happy.
1. Not enough rounds to function throughout the day.
I'm not sure this is entirely true and I would suggest that folks play the core bard for a bit before declaring the existing setup 'not enough'
2. Some uses, especially Inspire Competence, require so many rounds (or minutes, or even hours) that the bard cannot possibly enhance these activites.
This is definitely an issue and Jason pretty much admitted such. His suggestion was that the inspire competence ability would only be consumed during critical moments of a skill use. If a rogue is taking a minute to pick a lock it would burn 1 round of bardic performance when the actual roll is made. If a character were crafting a forgery the bardic performance would only burn 1 round from the pool when the character finishes the piece and rolls for success. So Inspire Competence would burn 1 round/ roll assisted. A fairly easy workaround endorsed by the developer... IMO that solves this issue fairly well.
Another possible house rule is to allow the bard to extend an existing use of music at no daily usage cost by concentrating.
This
1. What if we double the number of rounds the bard gets per level. So at first level, the number of rounds is 8 + CHA and each level after that is 4 additional rounds.
This would give Lem 46 rounds instead of 28. That should be enough for 4 combats with quite a bit left over for non-combat uses.
That would bring Lem almost on par with the minimum amount of rounds of Inspire Courage in 3.5. (48. 8 daily uses at a minimum of 6 rounds each.)
1. Not enough rounds to function throughout the day.I'm not sure this is entirely true and I would suggest that folks play the core bard for a bit before declaring the existing setup 'not enough'.
Quite true. And I didn't mean to imply that my point was clearly evident, or set in stone, or unassailably proven. Just that many people in the thread felt this way.
I agree, the RAW and the houseruled versions should be given some playtest time to see how it works.
Interestingly enough, one can give a bard unlimited uses (for playtesting) and simply count the rounds. Write it down. After a while, the list would look like:
Day 1. 15 rounds used.
Day 2. 6 rounds used.
Day 3. 12 rounds used.
Day 4. 13 rounds used.
etc.
Then just pick a suitable limit that a) satisfies the bard and b) hopefully challenges him to be a little bit conservative like pretty much every other class must be.
2. Some uses, especially Inspire Competence, require so many rounds (or minutes, or even hours) that the bard cannot possibly enhance these activites.This is definitely an issue and Jason pretty much admitted such. His suggestion was that the inspire competence ability would only be consumed during critical moments of a skill use. If a rogue is taking a minute to pick a lock it would burn 1 round of bardic performance when the actual roll is made. If a character were crafting a forgery the bardic performance would only burn 1 round from the pool when the character finishes the piece and rolls for success. So Inspire Competence would burn 1 round/ roll assisted. A fairly easy workaround endorsed by the developer... IMO that solves this issue fairly well.
I read Jason's solution, and some posters thought it would be a little inadequate. Evidently, some posters feel that having a crafter work on a project for 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 54 seconds, then having a bard kick off 6 seconds of inspiration doesn't fit their concept of verisimilitude sufficently to justify improving the d20 roll for that entire day's work.
I say it works for me, if that bard is dropping 6 seconds of Led Zeppelin...
That would bring Lem almost on par with the minimum amount of rounds of Inspire Courage in 3.5. (48. 8 daily uses at a minimum of 6 rounds each.)1. What if we double the number of rounds the bard gets per level. So at first level, the number of rounds is 8 + CHA and each level after that is 4 additional rounds.
This would give Lem 46 rounds instead of 28. That should be enough for 4 combats with quite a bit left over for non-combat uses.
Even better, Lem could cut a few of those short, say, drop the song for the last round or two of some fights when the group is down to mopping up a couple last mooks, and now he can go use his remaining rounds for other stuff, like Fascianting bar maids and suggesting that their halters are very uncomfortable...
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So Blake what do you think of the Feat idea I came up with?
Edit:
Lingering Performance
The lines of the poem reverberate in your mind long after the bard stops reciting the poem.
The effects of your performance persist for the number of rounds you perform, up to your charisma modifier. Alternately the lines from the performance can actually last for an entire skill check. In this case, the bard must perform for a full minute (10 rounds), to provide inspiration for the entire day.
example: If your Bard with a +3 CHA modifier, plays for 5 rounds, the performance lasts for 3 additional rounds.
So Blake what do you think of the Feat idea I came up with?
Edit:
Lingering Performance
The lines of the poem reverberate in your mind long after the bard stops reciting the poem.
The effects of your performance persist for the number of rounds you perform, up to your charisma modifier. Alternately the lines from the performance can actually last for an entire skill check. In this case, the bard must perform for a full minute (10 rounds), to provide inspiration for the entire day.
example: If your Bard with a +3 CHA modifier, plays for 5 rounds, the performance lasts for 3 additional rounds.
I like it, but not as a feat.
If this is the rule you implement, you might as well make it a built-in class feature, either at level 1 or maybe a bit later.
If you don't, it just becomes a feat tax because every single bard in the game universe will take it; it won't be optional, it will be mandatory.
So if it were me, I might make the bard sweat it out a level or two conserving his resources, then plop this down as a class ability around level 3ish. I'd have to see the whole class description to figure out where it would best fit in. And I would probably bump up the initial number of round to 6 or 8 just so they don't have to sweat those first couple levels quite as hard.
Even better, Lem could cut a few of those short, say, drop the song for the last round or two of some fights when the group is down to mopping up a couple last mooks, and now he can go use his remaining rounds for other stuff, like Fascianting bar maids and suggesting that their halters are very uncomfortable...That would bring Lem almost on par with the minimum amount of rounds of Inspire Courage in 3.5. (48. 8 daily uses at a minimum of 6 rounds each.)1. What if we double the number of rounds the bard gets per level. So at first level, the number of rounds is 8 + CHA and each level after that is 4 additional rounds.
This would give Lem 46 rounds instead of 28. That should be enough for 4 combats with quite a bit left over for non-combat uses.
I should hope so.
I'd like it if Lem got some good use out of the Extra Music feat he used to get up to that number of rounds.
Note that if if the other at will abilities are gone in the final game (and it looks a lot like this is the case), this ability should be adjusted accordingly. Maybe get two rounds out of every use instead of one, or something like that.
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Am I the only one that likes the standard action concentration? WIth the extra feats you get from PF (every odd level) there should be no problem covering the issue with not being able to do anything while you sing, dance, etc...
I distinctly recall feats that give more uses per day, extend the effects after ending concentration, and, as you get higher in level, you affect more people per use of bardic music. Not to mention that you could use some to better your combat prowess.
The OP's original thought was that our basis for this conversation is that we keep the round based mechanic but tweak it.
If we do this, many of the 3.5 feats for bards in the Complete Adv, Scoundrel, and champion are unable to be used unless tweaking is allowed on those.
It looks like alot of tweaking going on when beta is pretty solid, in my opinion.
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I read Jason's solution, and some posters thought it would be a little inadequate. Evidently, some posters feel that having a crafter work on a project for 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 54 seconds, then having a bard kick off 6 seconds of inspiration doesn't fit their concept of verisimilitude sufficently to justify improving the d20 roll for that entire day's work.
I say it works for me, if that bard is dropping 6 seconds of Led Zeppelin...
I think Jason's solution was more: the bard plays for the duration of the skill use (8 hours in this case), and since there is only one skill check, it expends one round of bardic music. If there are multiple skill checks during the duration (disarming a VERY complex trap), one round is burned per check.
Of course, the old inspire competence was capped at 2 minutes, so the craft example wouldn't work in 3.5.
On the other hand, there is a certain appeal to having the crafter slave for hours on an item, and then have the bard appear just as they are about to finish for the day, drop a few chords of "Stairway to Heaven", and then walk out. :)
At the risk of getting off the specific subtopic -- my issues with the new bard are not with rounds/day of performance, but with the Saga/A1 skills rules sneaking back into Pathfinder under the guise of "Versatile Performer." OK, we want bards to have multiple perform types, but don't want a skill tax on them. That's very easy to fix without introducing a loopy mechanic that says, basically, "I'm so good at throwing pies in people's faces for laughs that it also makes me a master chef!" or "my guitar playing is so uplifting that it actually helps me climb mountains!" or whatever.
I propose simply that Perform works similarly to way that Linguistics does: as you accumulate ranks, you learn additional forms of performance. Then, the bardic performance powers get divorced from specific types of performance, so that when you're inspiring courage, you could be playing the flute, or maybe making fun of the bad guys to give your friends a boost, or maybe you're just pointing out the monsters' weak points to your friends and yelling "look out!" The specific type of performance used is left as ropleplaying flavor, and gets divorced from the mechanical "crunch," in other words.
Then the bard has PLENTY of skill points left, because he need not buy perorm over and over -- and he already gets a free knowledge rank per level (and boosts to all knowledge checks). We avoid the bizarre scenario where you hit "8th level" (whatever that is) and all the sudden becomes a master of some skill that he's never practiced in his life. We get all kinds of performances possible. We open up freeform RP possibilities that don't revolve around a set list of options.
The simplest fix on the Round/Level is to increase it to a flat 5 rounds/level per day. This brings you the barest minimum of what the old 3.5 bard could sustain in a day. At 20th level this would come to a nice round 10 minutes of effect per day, instead of the lowest 4.5 it is under Pathfinder.
(Still prefer the Beta Bard myself, much simpler and worked with old material.)
I think we actually need something closer to what the beta Barbarian had.
You get X number of charges a day and each ability requires X charges for it to work. I'm not sure why this was untenable for the barbarian class, but it could work here. It's effectively what we're talking about with the second rule of the OP.
Inspire Courage (1 charge/round)
Inspire Competence (1 charge/skill check)
Countersong (1 charge/round)
Distraction (1 charge/round)
Fascinate (1 charge/10 minutes)
Dirge of Doom (1 charge/round)
Death Effect (3 charges/use)
Additionally something that's not being taken into consideration with the Bard's Inspire Competence is what happens when you take 20. The original allowed the character to take 20 on some things and 2 minutes was exactly what they needed.
Additionally, Inspire Competence is really best used over a period of time where the bard can't help with an Aid roll. Otherwise why bother using up my limited resources when I can simply aid with my +9 Disarm Device skill to get the same +2?
At the risk of getting off the specific subtopic -- my issues with the new bard are not with rounds/day of performance, but with the Saga/A1 skills rules sneaking back into Pathfinder under the guise of "Versatile Performer." OK, we want bards to have multiple perform types, but don't want a skill tax on them. That's very easy to fix without introducing a loopy mechanic that says, basically, "I'm so good at throwing pies in people's faces for laughs that it also makes me a master chef!" or "my guitar playing is so uplifting that it actually helps me climb mountains!" or whatever.
I propose simply that Perform works similarly to way that Linguistics does: as you accumulate ranks, you learn additional forms of performance. Then, the bardic performance powers get divorced from specific types of performance, so that when you're inspiring courage, you could be playing the flute, or maybe making fun of the bad guys to give your friends a boost, or maybe you're just pointing out the monsters' weak points to your friends and yelling "look out!" The specific type of performance used is left as ropleplaying flavor, and gets divorced from the mechanical "crunch," in other words.
Then the bard has PLENTY of skill points left, because he need not buy perorm over and over -- and he already gets a free knowledge rank per level (and boosts to all knowledge checks). We avoid the bizarre scenario where you hit "8th level" (whatever that is) and all the sudden becomes a master of some skill that he's never practiced in his life. We get all kinds of performances possible. We open up freeform RP possibilities that don't revolve around a set list of options.
Well yes, you've gotten off the specific sub-topic and I suggest that you either keep it in the original thread or move it to another thread.
Also there is no longer a free knowledge rank/level.
Also it's very possible that Versatile Performance requires bardic music uses per round which should limit the abuse of it.
Well yes, you've gotten off the specific sub-topic and I suggest that you either keep it in the original thread or move it to another thread.
Good thing THIS thread is entitled "New Bard Thread - Houserules," then, since I proposed houserules for the new bard. If this thread is intended to be solely focused on discussion of "X rounds/day is never enough," maybe it should be retitled something more specific to that purpose?
Well yes, you've gotten off the specific sub-topic and I suggest that you either keep it in the original thread or move it to another thread.Good thing THIS thread is entitled "New Bard Thread - Houserules," then, since I proposed houserules for the new bard. If this thread is intended to be solely focused on discussion of "X rounds/day is never enough," maybe it should be retitled something more specific to that purpose?
point goes to Kirth...
Well yes, you've gotten off the specific sub-topic and I suggest that you either keep it in the original thread or move it to another thread.Good thing THIS thread is entitled "New Bard Thread - Houserules," then, since I proposed houserules for the new bard. If this thread is intended to be solely focused on discussion of "X rounds/day is never enough," maybe it should be retitled something more specific to that purpose?
I apologize for my mistake.
I apologize for my mistake.
Well, in retrospect, I should just accept the fact that people are up in arms about the rounds/day -- but that no one other than me really cares too much about the magical musical grab-bag of pseudo-skills.
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I apologize for my mistake.Well, in retrospect, I should just accept the fact that people are up in arms about the rounds/day -- but that no one other than me really cares too much about the magical musical grab-bag of pseudo-skills.
I care! (Whoa, felt like Luke Skywalker for a second, there)
Seriously, the Performance skills that sub for other skills could be a real problem for me. If they don't fit into my view of the world's internal logic, I may have to can/change them. Verisimilitude is important to me, and a Bard using Perform (kazoo) to Climb a cliff would really bother me.*
Anyway, at least Weapon Swap won't be in the final.
* This is a gross exaggeration for the purpose of humour.
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I apologize for my mistake.Well, in retrospect, I should just accept the fact that people are up in arms about the rounds/day -- but that no one other than me really cares too much about the magical musical grab-bag of pseudo-skills.
No one cares? Did you miss my misinterpretation of combining the Versatile Performance ability with the Versatile Performer feat in the main preview thread? :)
I guess no one else is up in arms yet since we don't know the full mechanic yet, and what skills it will affect, and whether there will be overlap. I can see both perform (oratory) and perform (acting) substituting for Diplomacy or Bluff.
On a side note, I've been fascinated with the rounds/day versus uses/day debate - but only for 2.3 minutes.... ;)
I apologize for my mistake.Well, in retrospect, I should just accept the fact that people are up in arms about the rounds/day -- but that no one other than me really cares too much about the magical musical grab-bag of pseudo-skills.
I concur that this could be a problem, but I don't think it's going to be as bad as you think.
My hope is that it requires Bardic Music uses to achieve which means it will be a limited thing per day.
If not, then you're probably looking at the bard getting about the equivalent of 10 ranks/level by level 20.
We know Bards only get two replacement skills by 8 and that would put it at most at five by level 20. So five maxed out performs by level 20 would give you 10 skills at max bonus plus five skills from other skill points plus X skills from int. They're going to have a ton of skills at that point, but then again that seems to be a primary theme of the new bard.
Rogues are skill monkeys. Bards are now better skill monkeys. But this is also a mechanic that seems limited to a class that already has an insane number of skill points being given to it through Bardic Lore and Jack-of-All-Trades. So, if that's what they wanted to do with it, I'm fine with it since it's a very limited thing.
Also I haven't heard anything about Trapfinding going the way of Track, so I don't think the rogue is going to be completely replaced. Also the rogue is still one of the better single target DPS people at high levels. Additionally we haven't seen the new rogue yet. Perhaps they've made adjustments.
I can see both perform (oratory) and perform (acting) substituting for Diplomacy or Bluff.
The very existence of Perorm (oratory) offends me. If a person has high Bluff, high Diplomacy, and high Perform (acting), can't he orate, then? What possible benefit to the game is there of making it a separate skill? For that matter, why is perform (flute) separate from Perform (piano), when in combat all hp are just a "lump sum"? Why is Linguistics now a uniform skill? Shoot, if we're combining Listen + Spot + Search + Taste + Smell + Touch = Perception, isn't it about time to combine some performance skills as well?
The whole Perform skill is getting massively overhauled by houserule in any game I run. There will be a total of three (3) of them:
Slightly less realistic, but in a game built on abstraction, the mechanical separation of zillions of perform skills that exists borders on the absurd.
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The very existence of Perorm (oratory) offends me. If a person has high Bluff, high Diplomacy, and high Perform (acting), can't he orate, then? What possible benefit to the game is there of making it a separate skill? For that matter, why is perform (flute) separate from Perform (piano), when in combat all hp are just a "lump sum"? Why is Linguistics now a uniform skill? Shoot, if we're combining Listen + Spot + Search + Taste + Smell + Touch = Perception, isn't it about time to combine some performance skills as well?
The whole Perform skill is getting massively overhauled by houserule in any game I run. There will be a total of three (3) of them:
Perform (music) -- including all instruments, singing, songwriting, etc. -- pick one of the above and gain another every 2 ranks;
Perform (dance); and
Perform (acting) -- including oratory, comedy, melodrama, Craft (Playwright) and Disguise. Slightly less realistic, but in a game built on abstraction, the mechanical separation of zillions of perform skills that exists borders on the absurd.
I like this idea. YOINK!
Thanks, Kirth!
Well yes, you've gotten off the specific sub-topic and I suggest that you either keep it in the original thread or move it to another thread.Good thing THIS thread is entitled "New Bard Thread - Houserules," then, since I proposed houserules for the new bard. If this thread is intended to be solely focused on discussion of "X rounds/day is never enough," maybe it should be retitled something more specific to that purpose?
Actually, the OP (some Tarrasque, I think) specifically said in his OP that this thread is for all bard houserules.
Side note: Why is the abbreviation for "Original Post" and "Original Poster" the same?
I guess no one else is up in arms yet since we don't know the full mechanic yet, and what skills it will affect, and whether there will be overlap. I can see both perform (oratory) and perform (acting) substituting for Diplomacy or Bluff.I apologize for my mistake.Well, in retrospect, I should just accept the fact that people are up in arms about the rounds/day -- but that no one other than me really cares too much about the magical musical grab-bag of pseudo-skills.
This may be the right answer; it is for me.
I truthfully didn't glean enough from the preview to fully grasp this bard class ability, but when I read it, the description sounded weird. I don't get a mental connection between playing a flute and steering a magical flying carpet.
Maybe I'm just seeing it wrong.
Either way, I'm kinda holding judgment on that one until I can read the full class description and get a true sense of how wonky it is (or isn't).
The very existence of Perorm (oratory) offends me.
Wow. I know some people here are easily offended, but this is too much!
*goes and creates 1d20 characters with perform (oratory)* :P
Rogues are skill monkeys. Bards are now better skill monkeys.
Yes, bards are a bit better at it now. It isn't so bad, though, as I imagine the rogue will still excel in his corner: best trapspringer, best sneaker and acrobat (with the right rogue talents), and best backstabber.
Also I haven't heard anything about Trapfinding going the way of Track
I hope it does. The old system doesn't make sense, but a track-like solution would.
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The very existence of Perorm (oratory) offends me.Wow. I know some people here are easily offended, but this is too much!
*goes and creates 1d20 characters with perform (oratory)* :P
House rules be damned! With 5 ranks of perform:oratory you get a +2 synergy bonus on diplomacy and bluff checks.
There! Take that! :D
CC
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The very existence of Perorm (oratory) offends me.Wow. I know some people here are easily offended, but this is too much!
*goes and creates 1d20 characters with perform (oratory)* :P
House rules be damned! With 5 ranks of perform:oratory you get a +2 synergy bonus on diplomacy and bluff checks.
There! Take that! :D
CC
Yes please..talk at me!!! TALK AT ME!!!! BY THE GAWDDS!!!!!!
Kirth great house rule btw...YOINK!
Kirth great house rule btw...YOINK!
Thanks! Hopefully it won't contradict any of the future performance-related stuff that Jason hinted at in the main thread.
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Sorry if this is off-topic, but I find myself at a complete loss here: there's really nothing I wish to add to the final PRPG version of the bard. They've addressed my main concern: wasting skill points into Perform.
So as far as I'm concerned, I love the new bard, and won't change anything about it...
Sorry if this is off-topic, but I find myself at a complete loss here: there's really nothing I wish to add to the final PRPG version of the bard. They've addressed my main concern: wasting skill points into Perform.
So as far as I'm concerned, I love the new bard, and won't change anything about it...
That's good to hear. The more people who feel that way, the more confidence I have that Pathfinder built a good class.
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mmm
as I said in the Bards thread I am ambivalent about the rounds
yes i like the idea of using a bit more of the bards abilities... but i will eb damned if I have to play Elan...
but then again... I know that an "army" bard would be able to sing or play his instrument for hours instead of a few seconds (since every round is 6 seconds bards are vut to barely minutes...)
mmm but 2 rounds for a minute... maybe
I was thinking in either adding to the ability one special quality or adding it with a Feat "Extend Perform" where you use 10 "points" of Bardic Perform to last an hour/scene, whichever is longer...
that way you will have your bardic captain yelling orders (oratory) for an hour so her crew will save the ship during an storm... or you can have your army bard encourage his army along a heavy route
and... i myself will keep the division in beta
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Sorry if this is off-topic, but I find myself at a complete loss here: there's really nothing I wish to add to the final PRPG version of the bard. They've addressed my main concern: wasting skill points into Perform.
So as far as I'm concerned, I love the new bard, and won't change anything about it...
i myself would have liked more that they made the skill a bit ebtter, instead of an only bard perk... i like the perk... but the skill need a rework
My proposed house rule: Anything that requires continued concentration (fascinate, inspire competence, song of freedom) only costs to start, not to maintain. Anything that doesn't require concentration (inspire courage, etc.) is still measured in rounds.
That would make me happy, anyways.
My proposed house rule: Anything that requires continued concentration (fascinate, inspire competence, song of freedom) only costs to start, not to maintain. Anything that doesn't require concentration (inspire courage, etc.) is still measured in rounds.
That would make me happy, anyways.
I think that would make me happyish too.
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No offense, but you will find this house rule largely irrelevant, unless you have more than 4 fights per day before resting... (and the system is designed for four fights per day... each draining 25% of the party's resources... and 75% of all fights are handled in less than 5 rounds... with perhaps 99% handled in less than 10 rounds...)
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I think turning Extra Music into a Toughness-style feat will help. Suggested:
Extra Music
Requires: Bardic Performance class ability
Benefit: You may use your bardic performances for 6 more rounds per day, plus an additional 2 rounds for every level.
It's still weaker than 3.5 Extra Music at level 1. It breaks approximately even at anywhere from level 3 (12 rounds/day ie 4 combats at 3 rounds per -- I doubt anybody's group averages LESS than that at level 3) to level 11+ (28+ rounds/day ie 4 combats at 7 rounds per) depending on how long your average combats are.
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My proposed house rule: Anything that requires continued concentration (fascinate, inspire competence, song of freedom) only costs to start, not to maintain. Anything that doesn't require concentration (inspire courage, etc.) is still measured in rounds.
That would make me happy, anyways.
Question: does anything still require concentration anymore? (as far as I can tell, everything is maintained as a free action, therefore no concentration required... you just pay the rounds cost for everything you maintain each round (i.e. a high level bard can drain 3 rounds' worth in the first round, and maintain all three effects in the next round for a continued 3 rounds cost for every round... more if he keeps activating new bardic music powers...)
Edit: here's the quote from the preview, which suggests that there's no concentration required for any of the bardic music effects... you just pay the rounds cost and you keep doing other things. Beautiful.
"Regardless of the action needed to start a performance, maintaining a performance is a free action, meaning that the bard can keep up a performance and still cast spells, move, and make attacks."