I had a situation the other night where, during a battle, a foe cast a sleep spell on the PCs. The party's barbarian "fell" victim to it. As the battle progressed, it became apparent, that the player differed from my view of the consequences to "falling" victim to the spell. My interpretation is that when the barbarian fell asleep she ended up lying on the ground with the battle raging around her. The player's interpretation was that the sleep spell says that you are "helpless" and says nothing about being prone; in other words, she was still standing there, but just asleep.
We're clear now on how it will work in the future (honestly, I'd never had a player before this one dispute how it should function), but I'm curious as to how other groups play this spell.
We've always played that the character falls prone, or at least that has been my assumption as GM and no one in my group has every tried to question it.
Good question.
I assume the victims of the Sleep spell fall softly on the ground, like puppets.
It reminds me a movie, in which someone puts asleep some people in a crowd, but i cannot recall which one...
Yeah, prone it is.
Though I don't make them fall over. It's more like you would do if you decided to lay down, but didn't want to hurt yourself. Sink to your knees, lean forward, brace with your arms, then lower down like a push-up until your prone, then nighty-nite.
This view ended the wonkiness of "hey, if I fall over onto all this gravel, won't the hurt? With the pain of it wake me up?" or "hey, I cast sleep on that guy standing by the cliff so he falls off the cliff" and other stuff. It's not meant to kill, and it's not meant to only make them sleep for one second until their body hits the hard ground. They won't fall into their own campfires, or onto their own swords, or any other wierdness, because they get a couple seconds to lie themselves down safely.
That's my take anyway.
Per my main player, "Common sense would dictate you fall prone...but magic doesn't always equate to common sense."
Per my literal player, "You *fall* asleep, therefore you *fall* over - duh!" (she's 8, not blonde...but there isn't that much difference in practice...)
Per my teenage player who is learning how to DM, "I suppose it is DM discretion..."
Having discovered in boot-camp that I could sleep standing up - marching, actually - and again while working on pipelines, I can see the argument made that a Sleep spell doesn't make you fall over. As a DM, the target of a Sleep spell ends up prone...
Yeah, prone it is.
Though I don't make them fall over. It's more like you would do if you decided to lay down, but didn't want to hurt yourself. Sink to your knees, lean forward, brace with your arms, then lower down like a push-up until your prone, then nighty-nite.
This view ended the wonkiness of "hey, if I fall over onto all this gravel, won't the hurt? With the pain of it wake me up?" or "hey, I cast sleep on that guy standing by the cliff so he falls off the cliff" and other stuff. It's not meant to kill, and it's not meant to only make them sleep for one second until their body hits the hard ground. They won't fall into their own campfires, or onto their own swords, or any other wierdness, because they get a couple seconds to lie themselves down safely.
That's my take anyway.
My take is slightly different, but achieves essentially the same thing. Basically, under normal circumstances you have enough sense to avoid damage or other consequences (such as being near a fire, or near a ledge) as you fall to the ground before you black out.
In the end, I often try to let the circumstances dictate what happens with not only this spell, but others as well. For instance, if Sleep was cast on a flying creature, they would most certainly take damage from a significant fall, and then most likely would wake up (if still alive).
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Yeah, prone it is.
Though I don't make them fall over. It's more like you would do if you decided to lay down, but didn't want to hurt yourself. Sink to your knees, lean forward, brace with your arms, then lower down like a push-up until your prone, then nighty-nite.
This view ended the wonkiness of "hey, if I fall over onto all this gravel, won't the hurt? With the pain of it wake me up?" or "hey, I cast sleep on that guy standing by the cliff so he falls off the cliff" and other stuff. It's not meant to kill, and it's not meant to only make them sleep for one second until their body hits the hard ground. They won't fall into their own campfires, or onto their own swords, or any other wierdness, because they get a couple seconds to lie themselves down safely.
That's my take anyway.
I don't know; if there's nothing specifically dangerous nearby, then I agree. I don't need to plot where every pebble is.
Casting it on someone next to a ledge seems fair game to me. Serves them right.Though I'd be tempted to roll a Scatter die, to see which way they went, unless they were obviously leaning way over.
What about a guy on a tightrope?
From a fluff perspective I'd say you fall prone. The point of the spell is to induce a relaxing sleep so that you'll snooze even if a battle rages on about you.
Sleeping standing up isn't very relazing.
Also to remain actually standing, you would have to be set in a very specific stance which distributes weight equally for long periods of time without causing you to fall over. The chances of anyone being in such a stance during battle?
I've always assumed the target fell prone in the square that they are in when put to sleep. So unless they are running, flying with wings or caught in some other predicament where collapsing to the ground would likely put you somewhere else (tightrope), that's how we play it. I might be swayed against that with magical flight since it doesn't really require any kind of concentration to hover as long as your maneuverability is at least good. I'd drop them to the ground if the spell wore off but most magical flight eases you down anyway.
Who knows, though? Maybe it should make you fall asleep like Ace Ventura in a mental ward.
smart stuff
Perfect answer. The specific subject has never come up in my games but if it does I now know what I will say :) Good on ye!
What about a guy on a tightrope?
For someone in that position, climbing a wall, or some other precarious spot, the spell is going to be a lot more dangerous. You fall asleep on a tightrope, you're going to take a tumble to the ground. On the bright side, you'll be awake upon hitting the ground, assuming you survive the falling damage, that is.
What about a guy on a tightrope?Yeah, prone it is.
Though I don't make them fall over. It's more like you would do if you decided to lay down, but didn't want to hurt yourself. Sink to your knees, lean forward, brace with your arms, then lower down like a push-up until your prone, then nighty-nite.
This view ended the wonkiness of "hey, if I fall over onto all this gravel, won't the hurt? With the pain of it wake me up?" or "hey, I cast sleep on that guy standing by the cliff so he falls off the cliff" and other stuff. It's not meant to kill, and it's not meant to only make them sleep for one second until their body hits the hard ground. They won't fall into their own campfires, or onto their own swords, or any other wierdness, because they get a couple seconds to lie themselves down safely.
That's my take anyway.
Well, there are some places so precarious that there is no safe place to lie down. In those cases, a mere Sleep spell can be very deadly.
But so can a thrown rock, so it's not too over the top.
Let sleeping dogs lie. And other sleeping things, too.
I don't give a damn what the spell description says. The spell puts you to sleep, so you sleep. Just like you'd sleep any other time. And humans cannot really sleep on their feet. So it's falling time.
On the other hand, you won't automatically become prone if you get hit by a seduction spell and fall in love! Such a condition might follow later, but I'll leave off going into details until the KidMatrix is implemented.
What if the target is riding a horse or flying under their own power (ie winged flight)? :)
Or - gasp - standing on a bed! Would the target go to sleep... in the BED??
That's deadly.
What about a guy on a tightrope?
Well, there are some places so precarious that there is no safe place to lie down. In those cases, a mere Sleep spell can be very deadly.
But so can a thrown rock, so it's not too over the top.
I realize you're responding to a direct question, but I ninja'd you over twelve hours prior... =P
I realize you're responding to a direct question, but I ninja'd you over twelve hours prior... =P
What about a guy on a tightrope?
Well, there are some places so precarious that there is no safe place to lie down. In those cases, a mere Sleep spell can be very deadly.
But so can a thrown rock, so it's not too over the top.
Yes you did, if by "twelve hours" you really mean "1 hour and 8 minutes".
Either way, you did in fact ninja me, and my response was only to reply to the direct question, as you have pointed out.
What if the target is riding a horse or flying under their own power (ie winged flight)? :)
Note that there are rules for what happens when you fall unconscious on a horse, so that one is sort-of covered.
What if the target is riding a horse or flying under their own power (ie winged flight)? :)Note that there are rules for what happens when you fall unconscious on a horse, so that one is sort-of covered.
this whole discussion is a wonderful reminder why we play dnd and not wow. A dm can make judgment calls... Thats one of the best things about pnp gaming. People need to stop needing every situation, every possible event, explainable by rules ahead of time and just let the dm decide what happens and move on.
this whole discussion is a wonderful reminder why we play dnd and not wow. A dm can make judgment calls... Thats one of the best things about pnp gaming. People need to stop needing every situation, every possible event, explainable by rules ahead of time and just let the dm decide what happens and move on.What if the target is riding a horse or flying under their own power (ie winged flight)? :)Note that there are rules for what happens when you fall unconscious on a horse, so that one is sort-of covered.
That's for sure. One time, my Swashbuckler used a grappling hook to snag a Wizards leg who was safely flying out of reach above a fast moving river. Before he could remove it (DM was being nice), I tied the other end around the Warforge's leg and had him jump into the river. You're not going to do that in WoW.
Ah, here we go. What happens if you are sleep walking and someone casts sleep on you? :P
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If you're moving while you fall asleep you pitch forward in the direction you're moving...
If you're standign you collapse into a crumple little ball...
If you're a barbarian you curl up in the fetal position and suck ur thumb
If you're flying, you're falling...also if you're climbing, unless you're in a harness and then you're hanging upside down...
If you're sleep walking, you're screwed anyway...
YMMV
Ah, here we go. What happens if you are sleep walking and someone casts sleep on you? :P
You die. Instantly. Everybody knows that. Just like you cannot ever - ever - wake a sleepwalker up, because their intestines explode. No really I heard that and it's totally true. A cousin's younger sister's fiance's neighbour's mailman's imaginary friend imagined that once happening to a guy he hated so it must be true.
What if the target is riding a horse or flying under their own power (ie winged flight)? :)
The falling parts takes a little bit longer.
Yes you did, if by "twelve hours" you really mean "1 hour and 8 minutes".Either way, you did in fact ninja me, and my response was only to reply to the direct question, as you have pointed out.
Well, now that you pointed it out, and I realize I read the time of my post as pm instead of am, yes.
Now I'm going to have to design an encounter where the PCs have to traverse precarious terrain to reach an otherwise weak encounter, in which one of the enemies has a wand of sleep... I've done something similar in the past, but with the grease spell.