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Six volumes for a campaign is too many for every single AP.
Have you guys considered shortening them occassionally, maybe have one go for 3 volumes and another go for 4 then 2. Sure, occassionally one with 6 but, sheesh -- we'll soon have four 6-volume APs now. I'm considering temporarily ending my subscription for #s 25-30; I sure as heck don't need another huge published campaign! I just don't want it. Six-Volume APs all the time are just too much.
I don't think scheduling or time-crunch would become that big of a problem, right? And new consumers are more likely to be interested if they only have to make a 2-4 volume commitment to "try it out" than a 6 volume. And for the folks who might be considering not renewing their subscriptions, they might say, Well, I can do another 3 Volumes and then decide as opposed to, say, Yeah, I gotta pull out now before the next 6 volume AP starts.
Ultimately, though, it gives far more amount of creative flexibility. It's a Mistake to shoehorn your Flagship product like this. Think of all the great ideas that won't become APs because it would only take 3 or so volumes to be completed. Or, just as bad, a Greg Vaughan, Steve Greer or ESPECIALLY a Richard Pett might have a great idea for an adventure and they have to rewrite it -- re[i]design it to fit the next AP somehow.
Plots for 6 Volume APs are going to begin suffering from torpor very quickly. And while each author contributing a different adventure will help fight that, ultimately, since they still have to put their creative ideas in the same 6-volume box, the APs are gonna start suffering.
-W. E. Ray
Or, just as bad, a Greg Vaughan, Steve Greer or ESPECIALLY a Richard Pett might have a great idea for an adventure and they have to rewrite it -- redesign it to fit the next AP somehow.
That's not how the AP adventures are designed.
Plots for 6 Volume APs are going to begin suffering from torpor very quickly. And while each author contributing a different adventure will help fight that, ultimately, since they still have to put their creative ideas in the same 6-volume box, the APs are gonna start suffering.
-W. E. Ray
And James Jacobs has said that he's got (very sketchy) AP plot outlines through the next five years.
Isn't it easier to break a 6 module adventure path into two campaigns than turning two 3 module adventure paths into one campaign?
Hahahaha
I've been unsuccessfully lobbying for longer ones...
Hahahaha
I've been unsuccessfully lobbying for longer ones...
Agreed I want them to go up like the old dungeon ones did
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That's not how the AP adventures are designed.Or, just as bad, a Greg Vaughan, Steve Greer or ESPECIALLY a Richard Pett might have a great idea for an adventure and they have to rewrite it -- redesign it to fit the next AP somehow.
As far as I am aware, the AP's are plotted by the editorial staff and then the authors are given a section to flesh out - not that the authors have great ideas and the editors put them into an AP after the fact. Part of the thing about being a professional writer (in my view) is picking up an editor's brief and running with that, adding your own vision but also filling out the brief you are given.
All I know is I am still on book 5 and hoping to finish the series by summers end.
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I am of the mind that you buy what you DM as far as Adventure paths are concerned.
I am a player 75% of the time, so most of my money will go to companion and chronicles. I am currently purchasing Legacy because I am DM'ing it. Once I get the last one, I will switch it over to Chronicles.
This is also easy and simple.
And there are already multiple game mastery modules that can easilly be interwoven into a campaign that is part prewritten material, part DM created genius.
I am also preparing to utilize J1, J3, and J4 into a game I am DM'ing, and it was so easy to utilize these in such a fasion. J1, then J4 and end up with J3 to switch up the scenery a tad and introduce some different tactics in jungle warfare and adventuring.
It is my opinion that a DM can read a module and know very quickly if it will be something they want to run as a solo adventure or start a campaign with it. These 6-part AP's are all built upon some unbelievable content and, without knowing how legacy's #1 and #2 will work out, I can say that the Battle Market is looking like one of the most fun areas I will DM this year.
Anyway, have a good one.
CC
Well personally I need a new bookcase now.....BUT I think strongly that the adventures should be as long as they NEED to be to tell the story. Plain and simple. If they need 6 or 3 or 12 or whatever. As long as the story requires.
...I sure wish they had some ideas...If Nick Logue or Richard Pett have a great idea for a module that won't work as part of an adventure path, we'll be happy to publish it as a Pathfinder Module.
Very simple, very easy.
Heheheh ... it may be that they do, but Paizo would have to come up with an "18+" imprint to accomodate the gruesomeness.
Pett, when are the "cute n cuddly" owlbears going to make an appearance? :)
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If Nick Logue or Richard Pett have a great idea for a module that won't work as part of an adventure path, we'll be happy to publish it as a Pathfinder Module.
Very simple, very easy.
I think the Darkmoon Vale modules are just right in that prospect :
They share a common setting, they are related, but they can be played independantly. In fact, it's more of a challenge to run them as a campaign, IMO, than as stand alones.BTW, Eric and folks.... I love the APs (keep going) but I'd really dig for more stuff like Darkmoon Vale, either more DV, or similar ...
Oooohhhh ... and I WANT the Bestiary TOO ! And the Bonus Bestiary. AND an ADDITIONAL EXTRA Bestiary. And did I say a Bestiary volume II ?
Six volumes for a campaign is too many for every single AP.
Plots for 6 Volume APs are going to begin suffering from torpor very quickly. And while each author contributing a different adventure will help fight that, ultimately, since they still have to put their creative ideas in the same 6-volume box, the APs are gonna start suffering.
I have to politely disagree. If the level of writing continues, I expect to see years worth of stories (APs) to flow from Golarion.
In addition, I don't NEED any more APs. However, I still want them, and I often find myself anxiously waiting for the next monthly issue to arrive. I may never run most of them, but I surely enjoy reading them.
After reading about how we tend to post negatively rather than positively, now I feel all paranoid about passing this up. I'm happy with 6 part APs, and I like 'em.
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My idea is an adventure that actually REQUIRES the characters to torch the badguy's domicile for a change.
I find that my players usually do that as a matter of course. In fact any plan involving fire is usually referred to as Plan A. I must make all my dungeons almost exclusively from stone, because my players like to smoke out the bad guys and ambush them.
A 3 adventure AP would be kind of nifty. Does anybody else remember those 3 linked Eberron adventures from Dungeon? Something of that calibre would be swish.
I love the 6 adventure APs, but I just can't commit to buying adventures I know I won't get to running. I prefer my D&D games to be mini-series rather than full length seasons.
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I want to put my vote in for continuing the APs are their current length.
We played Rise of the Runelords all the way through and we are currently playing two groups one halfway through Second Darkness and one almost halfway through CotCT. We have also selected DMs for the next two APs and one of those is looking to be the DM for AP 7 - after hearing James and Wes talk about it at Paizocon.
I would buy these even if I did not think I would get around to playing them. I did not stop my Dungeon or Dragon subscriptions because I had a couple of hundred issues.
I would be very disappointed to cancel and have a hole in my collection and then find they were out of print and then find they were $50.00 each on ebay (which Pathfinder 2 was until it was reprinted making my stashed copies less valuable for a time).
I do not buy all this work because I think I will run it all. I buy it because IMO it is the best RPG material being created today and I do not want to miss a thing and I love playing it.
CEO
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In addition, I don't NEED any more APs. However, I still want them, and I often find myself anxiously waiting for the next monthly issue to arrive. I may never run most of them, but I surely enjoy reading them.
Interestingly enough, this pretty much describes the vast majority of RPG product purchasers. When I was at WotC, we did a big survey of RPG gamers, and found that most GMs buy much, much more stuff than they ever plan to play, because they love to read the material and think about how they COULD play it. I have a huge (over 1000 books) RPG collection myself and have only played a small fraction of it.
This gamer psyche is why we try to make reading our products as much fun as using them in a game. Many gamers don't have a current game for one reason or another. Reading RPG material helps them to stay part of the gaming culture, even if they aren't playing.
We realize that only the most dedicated of gamers will be able to play through all the products that we are putting out at one time. We also realize that people are going to start up and stop subscriptions at various times. That is part of how this industry or ours works. Me, I am happy that I will be able to read all the cool products we are making, even if I never get around to DMing all of them. And I am betting that there are a lot of people like me and Gray who feel this way.
-Lisa
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After reading about how we tend to post negatively rather than positively, now I feel all paranoid about passing this up. I'm happy with 6 part APs, and I like 'em.Same here, please do not change them.
Agreed. The thing I think I like most about the APs is that if I were so inclined, I could pick sections out of any AP and integrate it into a homebrew campaign. Thistletop as a goblin stronghold is classic. The Catacombs of Wrath woud work well as a minor dungeon encounter for a differnt campaign. You don't need to include the other portions of Burnt Offerings, or any other AP, in order to be able to utilize those aspects that you want to use.
A 3 adventure AP would be kind of nifty. Does anybody else remember those 3 linked Eberron adventures from Dungeon? Something of that calibre would be swish.
Ack!! Those were the worst 3 adventures that Paizo ever published* in Dungeon!!**
I could go either way on the 3- vs 6-adventure debate: at this point I really am pretty much picking them up for reading entertainment, as I don't have enough time to fit them all in. But perhaps someday...
* And they were just republished RPGA adventures, I think.
** Not a knock against Dungeon, Eberron, or 3-adventure adventure paths.
Sweet! on both!
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Yet another vote for not shortening the APs. If anything I extend them with side quests added in based around each player's personal history.
On a side note I would love some APs to not go hopping around location to location as much. Too many of the adventure paths have had my players going to the trouble of making friends and contacts in their initial location only to never return. ie Second darkness
Just my 2c worth cause I know my players are more interested in ROLEplaying than globetrotting
Does anybody else remember those 3 linked Eberron adventures from Dungeon?
Ack!! Those were the worst 3 adventures that Paizo ever published* in Dungeon!!**
But not true with the Istivin arc or Seeds of Sehan. I ran the first with great success and am running the other now with equal success. The first was part of an ongoing campaign of mini arcs that ran 1-25 while the other is a one off because it has yakfolk in it.
Personally, I'd like to see something akin to the old Dungeon paths. At least a random one off series that spans levels 1-20. I like that epic scope and massive undertaking. I'm wrapping up Shackled City now and preparing Age of Worms while trying to encourage a friend to run Savage Tide. True that smaller stories are easier to manage and cause less campaign burnout but there is something awe inspiring about holding that massive sheaf of 600+ page AoW printout.
Ack!! Those were the worst 3 adventures that Paizo ever published* in Dungeon!!**But not true with the Istivin arc or Seeds of Sehan. I ran the first with great success and am running the other now with equal success. The first was part of an ongoing campaign of mini arcs that ran 1-25 while the other is a one off because it has yakfolk in it.
Yeah, there's definitely nothing wrong with the 3-adventure format. Someone over at ENWorld mentioned a 3rd party Pathfinder Asian/Horror themed 3-adventure arc he was working on, and that is something I would love to see happen. But I think I would like to see that outside of the adventure path line. I would definitely pony up for a mini-path if it struck my fancy, and it would give the creative team a chance to explore/expand on areas of the game that might not have the universal appeal for a full-on path.
I would certainly love to see stuff for Tian, Numeria, or Alkenstar, for example.
