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While taking the family to the fair in Chico, CA yesterday (sunday), my nine year old daughter wanted to go on "The Thunderbolt" (a fast moving cauosel where you ride in individual car-pods).
On the side of every other car was a painted decal of a dragon, and the others all had a picture of Valeros (the one from the Beta rule boo of the Fighter description).
I took a pic with my cell-phone. My friends who were with me recognized it right away too.
So cool.
Robert
While taking the family to the fair in Chico, CA yesterday (sunday), my nine year old daughter wanted to go on "The Thunderbolt" (a fast moving cauosel where you ride in individual car-pods).
On the side of every other car was a painted decal of a dragon, and the others all had a picture of Valeros (the one from the Beta rule boo of the Fighter description).
I took a pic with my cell-phone. My friends who were with me recognized it right away too.
So cool.
Robert
Link it or something then! Share your cool experiance with all of Paizo!
Sorry to be a party pooper, but isn't that in violation of Paizo's copyright? Not the posting of Robert's picture, but putting Valeros on the rides.
Sorry to be a party pooper, but isn't that in violation of Paizo's copyright? Not the posting of Robert's picture, but putting Valeros on the rides.
Not so. Paizo is, in fact, the parent company of Hey-Rube Carnies & Carny Supplies Incorporated.
Not so. Paizo is, in fact, the parent company of Hey-Rube Carnies & Carny Supplies Incorporated.Sorry to be a party pooper, but isn't that in violation of Paizo's copyright? Not the posting of Robert's picture, but putting Valeros on the rides.
Diversification is always good. ;-)
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I'd love to see this picture. Is there any way you can put it online?
I posted the picture up on my RPG-based messageboard that I host for all the games I am a part of.
Here is the actual LINK to the specific message with the JPG so that you dont have to search through all the messages to find it.
Robert
I'd love to see this picture. Is there any way you can put it online?
The Fair's gonna get in trouble! The Fair's gonna get in trouble!
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I hope not, I'd rather they just had to put the Pathfinder logo next to the pic on the cars, cause that's kinda cool in my book. Hell honestly it's not like the art is being used to get people to ride the ride, it's just decoration I hope that Paizo wouldn't really give a hubabaloo unless the artist does. Well other than to say that's awesome.
But yeah, no doubt about it, that's Valeros
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I hope not, I'd rather they just had to put the Pathfinder logo next to the pic on the cars, cause that's kinda cool in my book. Hell honestly it's not like the art is being used to get people to ride the ride, it's just decoration I hope that Paizo wouldn't really give a hubabaloo unless the artist does. Well other than to say that's awesome.
But yeah, no doubt about it, that's Valeros
I agree with LastKnight (just like old times in the paladin threads, eh?)
I think this is something to celebrate - not scorn. They're certainly not profitting simply due to the picture - it's just really cool to recognize it for sure, and it's flattery in that they probably saw it, and thought it was great artwork - and so it's a compliment to Paizo and the artist.
Its not much different than someone getting a tatoo of it I'd imagine, or making it a bumper sticker on their car; one shouldn't be sued for that, right (again so long as their not profitting from it).
Personally, I was pretty excited when I saw it!
Robert
I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
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I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
Well, lets not let this pragmatism get in the way of a good story.
The story and fact that it was seen on a carnvial ride and is in fact pretty cool that it was there! That's why I shared the pic with everyone and have it on my messageboard for my players to enjoy, too. Bottom line - it's a cool story to share!
Robert
Chief Technical Officer
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I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
Sigh.
I really, really hate being put in this position, but what you say is correct.
That's about all I can say until I hear from legal counsel.
I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
Sigh.
I really, really hate being put in this position, but what you say is correct.
That's about all I can say until I hear from legal counsel.
I know it's not "fair use" but doesn't this fall under "awesome use"?
I know it's not "fair use" but doesn't this fall under "awesome use"?I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
Sigh.
I really, really hate being put in this position, but what you say is correct.
That's about all I can say until I hear from legal counsel.
Sorry,
but you have a choice. Either they can call their lawyer, or they lose their copyright, which means they have to commission new art, and then run more copies off. Which means they lose money, which means they might go under, and now where are we? Stuck with 4E.It's not Paizo's fault someone took their art without getting an ok first. It's not their fault the US laws are written so that if you don't defend your copyright you lose it (that's actually a good thing).
Either the carnival picked the picture and hoped nobody would know, or they bought rights from the artist (which I'm sure is a violation of Paizo's contract with the artist). I doubt it was the latter, much more likely to be the former.
What? Is that company nuts? What the hell were they thinking?
Why wasn't it Seoni?
I know it's not "fair use" but doesn't this fall under "awesome use"?I understand the sentiment; it's cool to see something from a product we love out in "the real world". But (and I'm sure the lawyers on the boards can comment on this) does not copyright law only apply when the holders actively protect their rights? That is, if Paizo allows an unauthorized use to go unchallenged, it makes it that much harder to defend against some other use that later comes up? Hence the community use policy, or Vic's permission in the past for the YouTube Pathfinder video, providing specific language was added to the ending specifying copyright. Paizo has to protect their interests, no matter how "neat" it is. And, really, somebody in the administration of the Fair knows this.
Sigh.
I really, really hate being put in this position, but what you say is correct.
That's about all I can say until I hear from legal counsel.
But does it fall under "faire use?" :-P
Seems like a quick airbrushing of "Pathfinder TM" or something and an apology could go a long way. Hey, maybe they could actually go with a Pathfinder themed ride, and then we could all act out our long-held Guardians of the Flame/D&D cartoon fantasies.
Right on, seems like negotiating for the carnival to actually go all the way and change the name of the ride to "Pathfinder" with the exact graphic style (in lieu of 'being sued') might be an easy way to 'enforce' the copyright and get free advertising besides!
(I hope the decorator who chose the image doesn't get in too much trouble...)
But does it fall under "faire use?" :-PI know it's not "fair use" but doesn't this fall under "awesome use"?
Hahahaha... touché.
I know it's not "fair use" but doesn't this fall under "awesome use"?
Unfortunately, "Awesome Use" would have required obtaining permission to use the image. :(
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Sigh.I really, really hate being put in this position, but what you say is correct.
That's about all I can say until I hear from legal counsel.
I'm sorry for stirring a pot by posting that.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and I understand that and respect that. I'm generally and genuinely not a fan of these kinds of things at all. And I'm sure it's not an envious potion you're in Vic, or anyone at Paizo for that matter; and I'm sure there's more than a little ambivalence and cognitive disidence there that you feel considering such legal actions are the types of things so many Paizonians have admonished WotC for being and doing so much over the past two years, and here you are in a position that may potentially appear hypocritical (even if it's not). I get that. So I'm sure you don't like the postion you're forced to be in.
Regardless, I also understand you gotta make sure that things are taken care of appropriately or else possibly lose something important. It almost seems like a lose/lose situation. Good luck to you on however this turns out.
Robert
I fully support Paizo's right to rectify the copyright situation. I trust they can manage to do it without being jerks. Heck, they probably don't even want to be jerks about it.
Hmmm....IANAL, but just because Paizo has permission to use that image with Pathfinder, doesn't the actual copyright remain with the artist? Unless of course Paizo bought the image outright, but I was under the impression that generally isn't the case with RPG art.
Also, the bit about protecting your interests; I think that applies to patents and trademarks, not copyrights. But again, not a lawyer.
I hereby summon Sebastian!
You called?
Imposter!
Your post didn't make me want to cry; you can't be Sebastian!
Hmmm....IANAL, but just because Paizo has permission to use that image with Pathfinder, doesn't the actual copyright remain with the artist? Unless of course Paizo bought the image outright, but I was under the impression that generally isn't the case with RPG art.
Also, the bit about protecting your interests; I think that applies to patents and trademarks, not copyrights. But again, not a lawyer.
I hereby summon Sebastian!
Depends,
If Paizo commissioned the artwork, they have copyrights to it. If they purchased usage rights from the artist, then the artist retains the copyright.It's the difference between paying someone to write you an application, and paying someone for a license to use the application they already wrote. In the former, you are paying them to create IP for you. In the latter, you are paying for the right to use their IP.
I think Paizo commissioned the artwork (which is why it's so expensive for them).
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Also, the bit about protecting your interests; I think that applies to patents and trademarks, not copyrights. But again, not a lawyer.
I think it's only trademarks that you risk losing, not patents or copyrights. There are consequences if you know of infringment and you fail to take action, but I don't believe you lose the copyright.
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I trust they can manage to do it without being jerks. Heck, they probably don't even want to be jerks about it.
Exactly - and that was my point. I'm sure Vic was even unstating with the "SIGH" and declaring that he doesn't like have to be in that position. I'm sure it's not the way they prefer to have to work things out.
It's another of the redeemable qualities of the people associated with Paizo Publishing.
Robert
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Because they don't pull out the Sue-stick immediately, makes them better people...
I think it just creates a negative opinion (publicly) whether they want to or not. I believe them when they say they'd rather not. It's just not an enviable position to be in I guess. But if the laws really require you to defend property in that way to avoid losing the rights to it, they can't really be blamed - it's just not pleasant to be forced to.
Regardless, I believe Paizo is more willing to be more diplomatic and amiable about things far more than many other companies - which is a good quality IMO.
Robert
Nice.
There's a local cleaning company that stole the likeness of the animated Superman for their logo ("American Hero" is part of their name).
Rather obnoxious.