I (level 1 DM) will start Hook Mountain soon and would be grateful for some hints. (where did your Players have fun/problems/a nervous breakdown)
Did somebody come up with a timeline (discussed here) ?
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If you have the time, you can see the way I ran it in my campaign at this link.
I added a lot of content at the start of the adventure because my player's main PC went to Fort Rannick ahead of the rest of the group with Shalelu, and they interacted with the rangers before the fort got attacked. Also, Paradise was still operational when they arrived, however, they did not go inside before it sank.
The rest of the PC group arrived after the fort got attacked, as the adventure normally goes.
When I get home tomorrow, I'll try to look for some notes I took about the timeline I used.
Having read Moonbeam's rendition / prequel / setup for Hook Mountain Massacre, I certainly agree that it is the most elegant and cinematic way I have seen the time line issues worked out for this adventure. I am working out now how I am going to make this work with my group.
There are some caveats to this though. Moonbeams game was being run for a single player controlling two members of the group and the DM controlling two members of the group and all the NPCs. In this case there is no real difference between someone like Shalelu and any other member of the group that is not being controlled by the DM (so Shalelu was as much a DMPC as his Paladin and Ranger characters).
If, like me, you are playing in a more traditional group with 4-5 player/PCs, then this becomes a bit more problematic.
Do you split up the Party?
If the entire group is present for the events that lead up to destruction of the Fort, it is far more likely that they can and will do something to stop them from occurring as written (note: this might not be a bad thing if the other aspects of the game were kept in place. i.e. the captain still gets captured during an assault, some of the rangers still get captured by the Kreegs and need rescuing, etc., etc... though it does mean you would be creating a lot on your own).
If you do split up the party and have only one member of the group go to the Fort and be the reason the rest of the party is called in, as Moonbeam did, then you have other issues. First among them is how do you RP out the events that take place with out boring those players who are not participating in the events?
Two possibilities spring to mind. The first is playing an independent session or two with the player that is going off on their own. For some groups though, like mine, this isn't really an option. If it is, it is a workable solution.
The other possibility would be to have the other players taking care of their own business and deepening their own story lines, then jumping back and forth as these all take place. This is the tack that I am going to attempt.
In order to get the player in my game to the Fort (and I will likewise have him accompanied by Shalelu), I am going to have him offered some additional training as a ranger if he goes there. I will be using some rules I found for rituals and he will be able to learn one that lets him swap out his first favored enemy for the day with another if he performs this ritual using something from the creature type that he wants to switch to (bumping all others down the line). This will give some incentive to the player while allowing me to develop the story as I would like for the most emotional impact.
At the same time I will have a similar ritual or ceremony that the other PCs can individually be taught that will give them a small in game bonus but allows me to grow their back stories and connections to the game. For instance, Nishka will be teaching the Varisian Druid a ceremony to call an animal companion that if used gives that companion a +2 to a stat of the players choice. But to get an ingredient for the ritual she might need to get it back from the Sczarni.
I am going to have a little tougher time with my other two PCs since they are both psionic types and I just don't get inspired with ideas much for them as psionics just seems out of place in a fantasy world to me (seems like a sci-fi thing), but I wanted people to be able to play what they found interesting (though I think one of them just doesn't like the vancian magic system and see the psionicist as a way around it). I will probably have one of their brothers be Kaven...
Anyway... I guess long story short is that I do really recommend Moonbeam's method of introducing this adventure as well as reading his campaign log. He really did a fantastic job.
He really did a fantastic job.
Yes, indeed!
If, like me, you are playing in a more traditional group with 4-5 player/PCs, then this becomes a bit more problematic.
Do you split up the Party?
This is unfortunately not an option for me.
and I will likewise have him accompanied by Shalelu
Shalelu would be a great addition to my party – but i need a good way to bring them together (No “I have heard you are travelling in the this direction, may I come along for my private reasons”)
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I (level 1 DM) will start Hook Mountain soon and would be grateful for some hints. (where did your Players have fun/problems/a nervous breakdown)
Did somebody come up with a timeline (discussed here) ?
My thoughts are below, under the spoiler button.
The General theme for Everything that happens up to the attack on FT. Rannick is Dueling banjos & some other lazy sounding banjo music (In my campaign, every major location, some NPCs and some fights have theme music.)It just... fits the Grauls & travel to the area.
Give the PC's some side reasons to travel to the area in addition to the Mayor's "what happened at the fort": Before the adventure picked up, The bard wanted to this Barge she heard about (Bardic competition on a gambling boat!), the monk heard that her long lost brother (who she had been perusing since session one) had joined the black arrows, one PC had Shaelu as their mentor, and the druid heard that the nearby druids of Ashwood are all missing. (The few Druids of ashwood were all slain by the Grauls)
Graul Farmhouse is too easy if they go to the barn first (and rescue NPCS). There should be something interesting they see in a farmhouse window to lure them in.
You must show them the pictures in the book for NPCs. ( I pull them up on my PC monitor nearby and keep them up all combat). One of my players said “Mammy Graul, I just want to UNSEE HER, but I CAN’T!” Mammy graul still comes up as the single most “icky” npc yet.
Relay the story of some NPCs via dialog in combat. In my FT. Rannick encounter, Kaagreth threatened to rip out his son’s teeth again if he didn’t “kill hoomans fast” (one of my PCs spoke giant, so they understood)
Turtleback ferry- Spend time here making them Love the PCS. Don't make the PC's like Turtleback more than sandpoint, but the PCs must start to like it.
When the PCs attack Ft. Rannick the encounter should not be static room to room clearing. The Ogres will hear combat and want to join their brothers in combat. Ft. Rannick should also erupt into a huge massive battle with waves of ogres coming to join the "fun" (unless the PCs have been very stealthy)
(My group used a tactic that combined Shocker lizards plus Burning barracks plus snipers on the walls- Every Player agreed that the epic combat that resulted was the most "fun" combat they have even done)
You must modify the Black Maga encounter to basically make Black Maga a “Lazy” combatant. In 4 full rounds, she can complete a TPK if you play her as the combat machine she really is. The encounter is too hard as written.
Any major (evil) NPC that the PCs did kill earlier should be met in this act.
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It is possible to give a group some down-time before HMM. When I do this I give players an opportunity to decide what their characters have done, often allowing them to justify character choices or develop story elements.
I often start them off with some options which I can later develop into hooks. i.e.
If a character had developed a relationship with Shaelu (whether as a mentor, lover or good friend) they could go off into the wilderness with her, ending up at Fort Rannick and returning to the lowlands before the adventure kicks off.
Characters who return to childhood stomping grounds could meet up with an old friend on leave from the Black Arrows who returns to the mountains before HMM begins.
Research oriented characters could discover hints about magic components or strange magical tattoos from the region or those directly interested in Thassilon could learn more about the strange magical dam that protects the region and might be vulnerable to any flux in the ancient Thassilonian magics.
Bards could be comissioned to entertain the troops, with a chance to visit the riverboat gambling on the way...
etc. etc.
The fastest way to get to Turtleback Ferry is by river barge (about a week travel, versus more than twice that by overland travel). So most likely, your PCs will be finding a barge headed in the right direction.
Shalelu may have decided to travel there on her own, and just happen to be booked on the same riverboat the PCs end up using. If you go with this method, it will probably be better to have her talk to at least one PC about why she's making the trip, rather than having her refuse to talk about it. Also, I recommend having some encounter on the way (a boggard attack on the barge, perhaps) to let the PCs see Shalelu can be useful to them.
The fastest way to get to Turtleback Ferry is by river barge (about a week travel, versus more than twice that by overland travel). So most likely, your PCs will be finding a barge headed in the right direction.
Shalelu may have decided to travel there on her own, and just happen to be booked on the same riverboat the PCs end up using. If you go with this method, it will probably be better to have her talk to at least one PC about why she's making the trip, rather than having her refuse to talk about it. Also, I recommend having some encounter on the way (a boggard attack on the barge, perhaps) to let the PCs see Shalelu can be useful to them.
Great minds think alike. This is what my group went through exactly.
Yeah Im not sure how my party will go But as im sure most have seen in my conversion to 6 players I added an encounter with a powerful green dragon and with this I will show them her usefullness
Im still bouncing all kinds of idea of why they are going to be going to Fort Rannick and ways to spice it up
I really liked Lisa Stevens note she left (Swiped from her thread on her combat with Xanesha
My dearest Xanesha!
I am so proud of what you are doing in Magnimar, with your band of murders winging souls to our Lord, fueling his awakening! Soon enough, Magnimar will be a much nicer place, with all of its greed sucked dry.
My plans proceed up here in Turtleback Ferry. You wouldn’t think that greed could take a foothold in such a desolate area, but when you provide people with just a bit of hope for a better life, it is amazing how their greed rises to the top.
The only obstacle to my plans is Fort Rannick, but that will be taken care of shortly. Then nothing will stand in the way of our Lord coming back to life!
Soon, we shall be reunited and our Lord will begin his most glorious reign over all of Golarion!
Lucrecia
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I've re-read the notes I had written in preparation for the adventure, but they're probably too specific to my campaign's peculiar setting (Navan going in before the rest of the PC's) to be of much use.
I've checked out Mary Yamato's thread and I didn't really change any of the issues she was concerned about. Some of them were answered by Nick Logue, and for most others, the issue never came up because my player never asked the question. :) (Like why the trolls didn't attack the ogres).
In general, I think the ogres went to the dam after Fort Rannick was assaulted - so they haven't been there for THAT long when the PC's get there. Anyway, that was my interpretation.
Also, in my mind, Fort Rannick should've been taken not very long before the PC's assault it. Maybe about a week tops. Since there are still plenty of yummy, uneaten human/animal corpses lying around, I don't think we could justify that the gluttonous ogres have been around for longer than that. :)
Is there anything specific you'd like to get clarified about the adventure's timeline?
Well, I must say that I really don’t know what to do with HMM. In my campaigns the PC’s got a town house from Sandpoint’s Council for their victory at Thistletop, so I really don’t want them to stay at the Fort.
Here are my ideas:
- Sheriff Hemlock arrests some minor Thief from Turtleback Ferry and spots the Sihedron Tattoo, he immediately informs the PC’s (no Magnimar Major involvement) Hemlock of course knows about all the events in Skinsaw.
- The people of Turtleback Ferry tell the PC’s that the Fort has been silent for days. One PC is a member of the Black Arrows Lost Coast Branch (witch I made up) so he should be very worried right away.
- No Black Magga
- Some form of Whitewillow but not as written
- Maybe they come by the Dam on their way to Hook Mountain and see the damage and the rising water, so they go in to open the gates.
- I have no idea what to do with the Hook Mountain, somehow the whole map is so small and cramped that I will use something else.
- No information’s about Janderhoff or they will go right there, I really don’t know how to achieve this, they will try to catch Barl alive and make him talk.
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One of my major problems with HMM was that the timeline made no sense. If the fort is attacked, and Magnimar doesn't notice untill the mail stops coming in, that would be around 2 weeks. Add another week before the PCs are contracted and sets out, and another 9 days before they can get up there. That's around a month after the initial attack, but it still seems like Ft Rannick was only attacked a few days ago.
So, instead, I opted for another sollution. As they travel up the lazy Yondabakari River, they notice that The River Boat Captain has a tiny Sihedron Rune on one arm. When they confront him, he admits that he's gotten the tattoo from a woman named Lucretia because he is a Premium Guest at the Paradise. He is, however, shamed to admit that he has accumulated quite a debt at the gambling boat, and has agreed to, as a way to pay off the debt to Lucretia, make the recent mail from Ft Rannick "disappear" on the way to Magnimar.
The intercepted mail is a report from the Black Arrows on increased activity on and around Hook Mountain, with a requisition for some backup. This way, the attack on Ft Rannick can have taken place only a few days ago, and the activity on the Paradise is further tied to the activity of the Kreeg.
I have a Question:
Somewhere James J. or Nick L. told us that the Layout for the Paradise was recycled for another adventure.
Does anyone remember witch adventure it was? Or witch thread?
Thanks
I'm not sure, but could it be Eel's End from the first adventure of Curse of the Crimson Throne?I have a Question:
Somewhere James J. or Nick L. told us that the Layout for the Paradise was recycled for another adventure.
Does anyone remember witch adventure it was? Or witch thread?
yes it was Eels end from what was said in another thread- but the layout in Eels end has a bunch of boats effectively permanantly moored to a pier, not really how I imagined the Paradise Barge.
Having used Lisa Stevens note (referred to above)and looked at Moonbeams campaign log I intend to:
1) have Lucrecia be away from the barge when they hit land- and maybe using another name (like Xaneesha did 'wanton pagans forms' or whatever) to avoid a confrontation with her too early- and to lead the players into the Sanos forest detour
2) let them meet the Order of Black Arrows before the massacre - to invest them a bit more in the people who live there- I like the Lamatar story so in mine his relationship with the fey is rumored and he is unaturally youthful for his age. It adds a bit of Golarion otherworldliness to the Black arrows (which to mine is the defining 'feel' of Golarion)
3) use the Dungeon magazine 'Mellorn Hospitality' - coverting wood elves to gnomes in Sannos forest (& a rumor that Lucrecia is there) to lure the party away from the area for a few days before the massacre
4) have stories of the swamp nymph (name forgotten) having had an evil sister who died in the swamp but who still lives there to insert a witchfire (from a pathfinder 5 I think) into that encounter area.
I am running this over the weekend of Paizocon (sadly on the other side of the world-- in Melbourne)- we will have drink to Paizo for producing such evocative adventures
yes it was Eels end from what was said in another thread- but the layout in Eels end has a bunch of boats effectively permanantly moored to a pier, not really how I imagined the Paradise Barge.
so they don't have the layout of the paradise barge in that module?
I have some ideas for a encounter on the ship, but I am looking for a layout.
[
yes it was Eels end from what was said in another thread- but the layout in Eels end has a bunch of boats effectively permanantly moored to a pier, not really how I imagined the Paradise Barge.
So they have not used the layout of the Paradise in that module?
I have some ideas for encounters on the ship, just looking for a layout/map
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My PCs killed every monster at the dam without interrogating any of them (except the level drained Pit Fiend, who didn't know squat except how the dam operated), so once they reset the dam mechanism and cleared out, I had to have a friendly brass dragon fly down and mention that there were still ogres in Hook Mountain that needed taking care of.
I am at a loss:
I am reading Hook Mountain in-depth now, the first of my 2 groups will start the adventure soon.
And I must say, I am a bit worried. This first group is mainly female, I can’t imagine reading these disgusting texts to them, even my purely male group will be disgusted by it.
Combined with the timeline and all the other problems of this adventure, I fear a complete disaster. At the moment I am busy crossing out 60% of all the flavor texts.
Has anyone here played the module with players over 30, not into horror, manly female?
Did you us it as is or toned it down?
What was the reaction of the players?
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Has anyone here played the module with players over 30, not into horror, manly female?
Did you us it as is or toned it down?
What was the reaction of the players?
I don't think adults would be severely disturbed by those descriptions, regardless of gender. Since they play RPG's, they must be used to bloody situations at least at a certain level. Right?
Maybe try it a bit and see their reaction, if they really get freaked out, then skip the description texts and say what they see using more general (less graphic) terms.
I'm not sure, but could it be Eel's End from the first adventure of Curse of the Crimson Throne?I have a Question:
Somewhere James J. or Nick L. told us that the Layout for the Paradise was recycled for another adventure.
Does anyone remember witch adventure it was? Or witch thread?
yes it was Eels end from what was said in another thread- but the layout in Eels end has a bunch of boats effectively permanantly moored to a pier, not really how I imagined the Paradise Barge.
Having used Lisa Stevens note (referred to above)and looked at Moonbeams campaign log I intend to:
1) have Lucrecia be away from the barge when they hit land- and maybe using another name (like Xaneesha did 'wanton pagans forms' or whatever) to avoid a confrontation with her too early- and to lead the players into the Sanos forest detour
2) let them meet the Order of Black Arrows before the massacre - to invest them a bit more in the people who live there- I like the Lamatar story so in mine his relationship with the fey is rumored and he is unaturally youthful for his age. It adds a bit of Golarion otherworldliness to the Black arrows (which to mine is the defining 'feel' of Golarion)
3) use the Dungeon magazine 'Mellorn Hospitality' - coverting wood elves to gnomes in Sannos forest (& a rumor that Lucrecia is there) to lure the party away from the area for a few days before the massacre
4) have stories of the swamp nymph (name forgotten) having had an evil sister who died in the swamp but who still lives there to insert a witchfire (from a pathfinder 5 I think) into that encounter area.
I am running this over the weekend of Paizocon (sadly on the other side of the world-- in Melbourne)- we will have drink to Paizo for producing such evocative adventures
How did this adventure go? Also, what Dungeon issue # are you referring to?
Thanks!
I don't think adults would be severely disturbed by those descriptions, regardless of gender. Since they play RPG's, they must be used to bloody situations at least at a certain level. Right?
Maybe try it a bit and see their reaction, if they really get freaked out, then skip the description texts and say what they see using more general (less graphic) terms.
well I don't think they will get nightmares or somthing like that,
but they will not enjoy it - I want my players to have a godd time and fun.so I will leave it out, but the gore is the only thing special in hook mountain the rest is just mediocre at best.
Maybe I am just a bit frustrated at the moment, I will make it work somehow
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I don't think adults would be severely disturbed by those descriptions, regardless of gender. Since they play RPG's, they must be used to bloody situations at least at a certain level. Right?
Maybe try it a bit and see their reaction, if they really get freaked out, then skip the description texts and say what they see using more general (less graphic) terms.
well I don't think they will get nightmares or somthing like that,
but they will not enjoy it - I want my players to have a godd time and fun.
so I will leave it out, but the gore is the only thing special in hook mountain the rest is just mediocre at best.Maybe I am just a bit frustrated at the moment, I will make it work somehow
I (and my players) had a lot of problems with the gore and disgustion in the flavor text of this module, at some point during the ogrekin house exploration I just started eliding material "blah blah grossness blah" when reading the room descriptions.
I (and my players) had a lot of problems with the gore and disgustion in the flavor text of this module, at some point during the ogrekin house exploration I just started eliding material "blah blah grossness blah" when reading the room descriptions.
Good to know that I am not the only one :-)
I found it strange that the Lust-Dungeon in SotS has a warning and this adventure doesn’t
Over here in Germany the Lust part described as softcore would be absolutely acceptable in a afternoon soap or a commercial.
Should there ever be a German translation of Hook Mountain, I would expect an 18 years age limit before you could say “Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons”
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Good to know that I am not the only one :-)
I found it strange that the Lust-Dungeon in SotS has a warning and this adventure doesn’t
Over here in Germany the Lust part described as softcore would be absolutely acceptable in a afternoon soap or a commercial.
Should there ever be a German translation of Hook Mountain, I would expect an 18 years age limit before you could say “Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons”
Here in the US we have a backwards thinking in that violence seems to be ok, but anything to do with sexual relations is not.
This has nothing to do with the violence but with the last of the Black Arrows I wrote character sheets up for each of them with some weapons you can put at the Graal house and say is theres so you dont have to worry about them if the PCs want there help taking the fort
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I found it strange that the Lust-Dungeon in SotS has a warning and this adventure doesn’t
Over here in Germany the Lust part described as softcore would be absolutely acceptable in a afternoon soap or a commercial.
Should there ever be a German translation of Hook Mountain, I would expect an 18 years age limit before you could say “Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons”
Yeah, if we ever get to Sins of the Saviors they're going to be vastly amused by the Vault of Lust (parental guidance suggested).
This has nothing to do with the violence but with the last of the Black Arrows I wrote character sheets up for each of them with some weapons you can put at the Graal house and say is theres so you dont have to worry about them if the PCs want there help taking the fort
I hav the same plan. Weapons and Armor for all 3, KAven will confess not much later, than 3 Players will get HAndouts and play the Rangers similar to cohorts
I'll likely have either a very conservative christian in my group, and or will be running this for my sister and nephiew. In either case I'm going to talk to everyone before hand. I honestly can't imagine anyone who regularly plays rpgs would have a problem with the discriptions or themes involved in this adventure, but hey...sometimes I think I live in a different world than most.
I would suggest just talking to people before hand, telling them the next adventure deals with a lot of brutality, and some of the descriptions might be a little intense. Then see what they have to say. Tell them you're not trying to go for shock value, but the advesaries in this particular adventure are truely horrible, and the descriptions are graphic to get that point across. If they have reservations, read them a couple lines that you think are bad. See what they say. If they tell you they're not cool with it, then either change the descriptions around, or skip the adventure.
I can't address the violence and brutality, other than to say that I ran the adventures as is... My two groups were older adults and none of them particular conservative enough to be offended.
They were horrified though.
Practical advice though!
There is a strong tendency to just want to burn the Graul House down, the barn too. Don't let them. Sometimes it stems from the horror, sometimes it stems from that they never believed that there would be three traps in three consecutive rooms. Arson is a lazy way to solve an adventure. Point out that it's been raining a lot, and quickly add that "in fact, it's raining right now." No XP, no treasure, STRONG chance of innocent loss of life.
Actually fighting evil through arson is a knee jerk reaction in the first half of Runelords. Thistletop, Foxglove Manor, and the Graul House are all made of wood. Draw a line in the sand and tell them to "just don't go there." I tried being subtle the first time with mixed results, the second time I was just blunt and to the point.
There is a crowded guard house with 12 ogres later on, and I usually allow that to be torched because the text actually suggests it. That's the exception.
In later Chapters, there are less wooden structures and it doesn't come up any more.