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I'm sort of torn over the new incarnation. Abrahms keeps saying all they have done is "ratchet up the adventure" but to me it seems more like they have missed the point of Star Trek amid all the explosions.
I'll probably see it and turn off my brain if warranted, but I'm not expecting something remotely like TOS.
Like I said earlier in this thread, Roddenberry is dead, anything special about Star Trek died with him. It'd just another sci-fi franchise now, and no amount of nerdrage is going to change that, frankly.
Jal:
** spoiler omitted **
I think you summed it up with that thought. I've given up on nerdrage, now I just suffer from nerdennuie.
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I think you summed it up with that thought. I've given up on nerdrage, now I just suffer from nerdennuie.I'm sort of torn over the new incarnation. Abrahms keeps saying all they have done is "ratchet up the adventure" but to me it seems more like they have missed the point of Star Trek amid all the explosions.
I'll probably see it and turn off my brain if warranted, but I'm not expecting something remotely like TOS.
Like I said earlier in this thread, Roddenberry is dead, anything special about Star Trek died with him. It'd just another sci-fi franchise now, and no amount of nerdrage is going to change that, frankly.
Jal:
** spoiler omitted **
"Nerdennui" sums up my position as well. Did you coin that? I love it ")
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"Nerdennui" sums up my position as well. Did you coin that? I love it.
I think you summed it up with that thought. I've given up on nerdrage, now I just suffer from nerdennuie.
These days I'm sure it's been said elsewhere...yes it has; even though I came up with it on my own, and seemed to have coined the combination in a single word.
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Funny, I don't recall seeing hardly any TV characters reference their religion on American TV, and I watch it every day. And I'm pretty sure House is an atheist, considering how much contempt he shows religious characters on that show.
Why do people only think their lifestyle or belief system is valid if it's shown in an entertainment media? Seriously, I don't see any Sicilian pagan recovering addict ex-military fiscally conservative socially liberal near sighted 30-something wise-ass D&D playing characters on TV.
Maybe I should protest or something.
Heroes just outed the Petrilli family as Catholic
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Heroes just outed the Petrilli family as CatholicFunny, I don't recall seeing hardly any TV characters reference their religion on American TV, and I watch it every day. And I'm pretty sure House is an atheist, considering how much contempt he shows religious characters on that show.
Why do people only think their lifestyle or belief system is valid if it's shown in an entertainment media? Seriously, I don't see any Sicilian pagan recovering addict ex-military fiscally conservative socially liberal near sighted 30-something wise-ass D&D playing characters on TV.
Maybe I should protest or something.
"Outed". Hehehehe. Like it's a shameful thing ;)
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"Outed". Hehehehe. Like it's a shameful thing ;)Heroes just outed the Petrilli family as CatholicFunny, I don't recall seeing hardly any TV characters reference their religion on American TV, and I watch it every day. And I'm pretty sure House is an atheist, considering how much contempt he shows religious characters on that show.
Why do people only think their lifestyle or belief system is valid if it's shown in an entertainment media? Seriously, I don't see any Sicilian pagan recovering addict ex-military fiscally conservative socially liberal near sighted 30-something wise-ass D&D playing characters on TV.
Maybe I should protest or something.
:) Not like were the largest religion on the planet. Oh wait we are.
It isn't about feeling 'valid', it is about media being representative.I wasn't meaning to belittle you, but there have been a few open athiest on TV, House I'm pretty(?) sure has expressed a dislike of religion, Capt. Mal Reynolds from Firefly had no use for religion,and I'm pretty sure that the bucha aldulterous women on Desprate Wives ain't been ta church in while either! (kidding!)
Hey, I never said they didn't exist. I said it wasn't representative. And Mal is more a theist who just hates god anyway. Two characters you can name in thosands is, not a representative depiction of the population.
Name the pagan's on tv
It isn't about feeling 'valid', it is about media being representative.Representative of what? They represent what gets them paid. Entertainment isn't a democracy, it's a business. 0.4% of Americans identify as "atheist". Frankly, in a nation of well over 300 million, less than a million people are a "non-market". If every atheist in America were to boycott anything because atheism isn't well represented, advertisers and producers would yawn and go about their day. While 15% of Americans claim "no religion", only 1.6% identify themselves as agnostic or atheist. 85% identify themselves as religious.
So, why should any producer go to bat for less than 2% of the market, at the risk of potentially alienating 85% of the market? See my "Golden Compass" example, above. People in the media have a tendency not to support projects that gross less than half of their total budget.
And, since "representative" is what you want, I can guarantee that 0.4% of the characters on American television are atheists. What you want is OVER representation. And to that I say, tough, get over it.
Edit: GLBT people make up somewhere between 7% to 12% of the total American population, so they actually represent a "market" in the eyes of the bean counters, which may be why GLBT characters are well represented in the entertainment media. That doesn't mean producers and
studio executives are going to make sure every movie has a gay character, especially movies and shows with a broad market appeal (like, um, Star Trek), but GLBT characters are definitely well represented in other productions.You want things to change? Show them the money, and not the chump change 900k people represents...
You are miss representing the data. A single poll is not conclusive, especially when there is discrimination associated self identification.
The truth is that collected polling data points to between about 5% and 10%. Also, the percentage drastically increases amongst the best educated.
America is also not the only market for american television so there is potential money to be made in catering to more global tastes in the media industry.
Beside, I never said that the companies should do it, or that I thought I was good business sense, only that i would like to see it. Oh and saying, the very idea that 'good god fearing folk would stop watching if there was an atheist or a gay person in a show or movie, only goes to show how much it is needed.
I like chocolate milk!
OOOOOhh-K.
Let's...get this...topic...backontheroad...where...it's...supposed to BE. [ahh sharp intake of breath]
Me.
Besides!
Who...inthehell...is Chris Pines? That...is...why...Iwillnot...be seeing...this [ahh sharp intake of breath]
...film.
OOOOOhh-K.
Let's...get this...topic...backontheroad...where...it's...supposed to BE. [ahh sharp intake of breath]
Me.
Oh god, oh god, oh god...kill it before it breeds!!!!
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As a serious point, i really would like to see more more atheists characters in american television.
Athiesm is the largest religion in the world...but we are in decline so we must be vigilant against the heretics. Most of our members are in China and North Korea.
I Support North Korea in their fight against the spread of Non Athiest values across the world.
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OOOOOhh-K.
Let's...get this...topic...backontheroad...where...it's...supposed to BE. [ahh sharp intake of breath]
Me.
Besides!
Who...inthehell...is Chris Pines? That...is...why...Iwillnot...be seeing...this [ahh sharp intake of breath]
...film.
Didn't you go back in time and become a lawer in Boston?
As a serious point, i really would like to see more more atheists characters in american television.Athiesm is the largest religion in the world...but we are in decline so we must be vigilant against the heretics. Most of our members are in China and North Korea.
I Support North Korea in their fight against the spread of Non Athiest values across the world.
*Rolls eyes.*
Yes dingo...whatever you say dingo...
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OOOOOhh-K.
Let's...get this...topic...backontheroad...where...it's...supposed to BE. [ahh sharp intake of breath]
Me.
Oh god, oh god, oh god...kill it before it breeds!!!!
I found the combination of a Wheaton avatar with Kirk to be amusing.
I think the real question is that if this movie is successful, will Shatner finally get extra money to finish Star Trek V properly!?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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As a serious point, i really would like to see more more atheists characters in american television.Athiesm is the largest religion in the world...but we are in decline so we must be vigilant against the heretics. Most of our members are in China and North Korea.
I Support North Korea in their fight against the spread of Non Athiest values across the world.
EDIT: Deleted because I forgot I wasn't going to get involved in any more political discussions on these boards.
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EDIT: Deleted because I forgot I wasn't going to get involved in any more political discussions on these boards.As a serious point, i really would like to see more more atheists characters in american television.Athiesm is the largest religion in the world...but we are in decline so we must be vigilant against the heretics. Most of our members are in China and North Korea.
I Support North Korea in their fight against the spread of Non Athiest values across the world.
If you had made a comment, rest assured Japan would have intercepted it before it became a threat. ;)
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I wasn't meaning to belittle you, but there have been a few open athiest on TV, House I'm pretty(?) sure has expressed a dislike of religion, Capt. Mal Reynolds from Firefly had no use for religion,and I'm pretty sure that the buncha aldulterous women on Desprate Wives ain't been ta church in while either! (kidding!)
I never said they didn't exist. I said it wasn't representative. And Mal is more a theist who just hates god anyway. Two characters you can name in thosands is, not a representative depiction of the population.
How do you know there aren't more?
For all you know, every extra in every scene, in every episode of every programme on every channel on TV could be an atheist.See them, going about their business, seething away, teeth gritted, knuckles clenched, just waiting, nay, begging, for someone to bring up the subject.
"Just don't get me started on religion. Just wait till someone asks me what I think. Just let them try. Oh, yes. Then I'll let them have it. Yes, indeed, sir. Oh, yes, then I'll tell them what I really think..."
Getting more and more irate, because no-one bothers to ask their opinion, because no-one actually cares one way or the other.
It's quite strange to me how ZN assumes everyone is religious unless they specifically say otherwise. I go on the assumption that everyone is atheist until they say otherwise. But that's probably a product of me living in the godless European Union.
I like chocolate milk!
I see what you did there...
I wasn't meaning to belittle you, but there have been a few open athiest on TV, House I'm pretty(?) sure has expressed a dislike of religion, Capt. Mal Reynolds from Firefly had no use for religion,and I'm pretty sure that the buncha aldulterous women on Desprate Wives ain't been ta church in while either! (kidding!)I never said they didn't exist. I said it wasn't representative. And Mal is more a theist who just hates god anyway. Two characters you can name in thosands is, not a representative depiction of the population.How do you know there aren't more?
For all you know, every extra in every scene, in every episode of every programme on every channel on TV could be an atheist.See them, going about their business, seething away, teeth gritted, knuckles clenched, just waiting, nay, begging, for someone to bring up the subject.
"Just don't get me started on religion. Just wait till someone asks me what I think. Just let them try. Oh, yes. Then I'll let them have it. Yes, indeed, sir. Oh, yes, then I'll tell them what I really think..."Getting more and more irate, because no-one bothers to ask their opinion, because no-one actually cares one way or the other.
It's quite strange to me how ZN assumes everyone is religious unless they specifically say otherwise. I go on the assumption that everyone is atheist until they say otherwise. But that's probably a product of me living in the godless European Union.
I don't assume anything, but do notice trends...
What nameless faceless extra 1 beleives or doesn't beleive is irrelivant, simply because we do not know...Its the characters who talk who matter, and even here, the trend is massively massively towards beleif.
And snorter, i also come from godless europe ;)
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What nameless faceless extra 1 beleives or doesn't beleive is irrelivant, simply because we do not know...Its the characters who talk who matter, and even here, the trend is massively massively towards beleif.
Seriously, I'm beginning to think that you're only seeing a very limited slice of American TV. I live in the States, and, frankly, I couldn't tell you what religion 99% of the characters I watch on TV are, or whether they believe in anything or not. Well, except for the aforementioned House, as he wears his logic and disbelief on his sleeve, but that makes perfect sense for his character. I have to assume you're projecting, seeing things that aren't there just so you can be upset about something.
If an entertainment piece isn't about religion or belief, or such a discussion makes no sense in the context of the show, why should the writers go out of their way to make sure we know what the character's religious beliefs are? In the typical American sit-com or drama, religion almost never comes up. Not many people care if the main characters are Christian, Buddhist, Animists, Jewish, Muslim, Voodoo witch doctors, pagan or atheists.
My objection to this topic is the assumption that entertainment has to validate or represent anything. It has to be entertaining, period, and they do a bad enough job of that. If the only way a person can enjoy a show is if that show goes out of its way to portray their particular lifestyle or belief system, whether or not such a revelation is even pertinent to the plot or theme of the piece, I feel sorry for them.
And, as a pagan, maybe I should be upset that there are more self professed atheists on TV than pagans, even though we outnumber atheists in America three to one. Now that Charmed has been canceled, what do we have? The forensics chick from NCIS?
:)
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New site for the movie. This is the best movie site I've seen in a really long time.
Still bugged by the whole return to retro 70s skirts for chicks in the millitary thing. Give them Cammo that changes with the terrain after all this is "the future".
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I'd still go and see it.I heard that if this movie is successful, the sequel will be...
STAR TREK:
The Musical
MEE TOOO! MEE TOO! So long as Shatner's songs are more like Prof. Higgins's from "My Fair Lady," b/c he couldn't carry a tune if he had a sherpa help him.
It could be like "Rocky Horror Picture Show," everyone in costume, singing along!
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I'd still go and see it.I heard that if this movie is successful, the sequel will be...
STAR TREK:
The MusicalMEE TOOO! MEE TOO! So long as Shatner's songs are more like Prof. Higgins's from "My Fair Lady," b/c he couldn't carry a tune if he had a sherpa help him.
It could be like "Rocky Horror Picture Show," everyone in costume, singing along!
We could all dress up as red shirts and throw tribbles at the screen!
...Wait, don't they do that for Star Trek IV already?
Yep, that would be about it.Now that Charmed has been canceled, what do we have? The forensics chick from NCIS?
:)
That is the only one I know of as well
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As for the original posters concerns, I think the term your looking for is heterosexism - The lack of other sexualities portrayed in the public eye. It's been an on going problem for quite sometime, but that being said other sexualities make up just under 10% of the population so it is more than possible that a group of people may not include homosexual individuals.
As for the original posters concerns, I think the term your looking for is heterosexism - The lack of other sexualities portrayed in the public eye. It's been an on going problem for quite sometime, but that being said other sexualities make up just under 10% of the population so it is more than possible that a group of people may not include homosexual individuals.
Perhaps, but Star Fleet's headquarters is suppose to be in San Francisco. And we all know what else is centered there. Just saying. :P
As for the original posters concerns, I think the term your looking for is heterosexism - The lack of other sexualities portrayed in the public eye. It's been an on going problem for quite sometime, but that being said other sexualities make up just under 10% of the population so it is more than possible that a group of people may not include homosexual individuals.Perhaps, but Star Fleet's headquarters is suppose to be in San Francisco. And we all know what else is centered there. Just saying. :P
OMG, you're right! Hippies! Hippy culture is centered there. Deadheads galore! Starfleet's Headshops must be awesome!
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OMG, you're right! Hippies! Hippy culture is centered there. Deadheads galore! Starfleet's Headshops must be awesome!As for the original posters concerns, I think the term your looking for is heterosexism - The lack of other sexualities portrayed in the public eye. It's been an on going problem for quite sometime, but that being said other sexualities make up just under 10% of the population so it is more than possible that a group of people may not include homosexual individuals.Perhaps, but Star Fleet's headquarters is suppose to be in San Francisco. And we all know what else is centered there. Just saying. :P
Oh dear God in heaven....
Ya know now that you mention it Starfleet is a little into the whole hippie thing IMO|
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Athiesm is the largest religion in the world...but we are in decline so we must be vigilant against the heretics. Most of our members are in China and North Korea.
According to the old Chinese government estimate, there were "over 100 million followers of various faiths" in China. Other estimates put about 100 million or about 8% Chinese who follow Buddhism, with the second largest religion as Taoism (no data), Islam (19 million or 1.5%) and Christianity (14 million or 1%; 4 million Roman Catholics and 10 million Protestants). According to the 1993 edition of The Atlas of Religion, the number of atheists in China is between 10 and 14 percent.
Today, about 2.3 percent of the world's population describes itself as atheist, while a further 11.9 percent is described as nontheist.
Christianity: 2.1 billion, with major branches as follows
Roman Catholic Church: 1.05 billion
Eastern Orthodox Church: 240 million
African Initiated Church: 110 million
Pentecostalism: 105 million
Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United: 75 million
Anglicanism/Episcopal Church: 73 million
Baptist: 70 million
Methodism: 70 million
Lutheran: 64 million
Islam: 1.5 billion, with major branches as follows:
Sunni: 940 million
Shia: 120 million
Buddhism: 376 million, with major branches as follows:
Mahayana: 185 million
Theravada: 124 million
Vajrayana/Tibetan: 20 million
with 6 billion people in the world and only around 2.3% being aethiest I am afriad you are in the minority with it being barely a blip on the screen.
How the heck would you know they're gay if they're just off having a picnic? Do they have some kind of gay dress code? You'd have to draw attention to them as gay in some way, some behavior, some comment. And then you'd probably run into critics charging tokenism.
Better to have a better realized and fleshed out gay character. But again, you'd run into the fact that sometime after this movie, when the time covered by the TV show starts up, that character would have to be gone.
Seriously, you need to get a grip and stop shouting at someone who disagrees with you.
Shouting??? A Grip???
Certainly an intelligent person such as yourself saw what I was trying to get at with the example. But allow me to give another, lets say a same sex couple walking down the street holding hands or a same sex couple picking a child up from ball practice. Are those better examples? And yes it would be better to have a fleshed out character but when you're a starving dog I'll take even the scraps.|
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The gay persons in Star Trek all get to wear red shirts. ;P
No but seriously, I've seen them pan past two guys or two girls walking down the halls of the ship together discussing stuff. What's to say they aren't heading back to their shared quarters for a night of cocoa, listening to music, and a good cuddle? It just happens that the main characters aren't gay. Unfortunately the main characters were written back before there was much acceptance of gay lifestyles and the main characters were made to fit that design. Re-writing them now to make them fit more into a more enlightened society (hopefully) would be difficult and would make a lot of people mad. Including a new character that is purposefully gay also seems like a bad idea because usually Hollywood either goes with stereotypical gay (a bedazzled com badge?) or would gloss over it for brevity's sake making the gay community angry at not getting more airtime for their cause while cheesing off a good portion of their customer base.
It seems like if their is any inclusion of gay characters in a movie that it is done in either a bad stereotype, a comedic aspect, or as a bone tossed in to appease a certain demographic.... In most cases it is done badly and fails to portray a true gay person's life, doing nothing to engender a more tolerant society. I know that there are a few movies that got it right but do you really believe that Star Trek would? I don't and I'd rather not have them fail at it showing that the future is no different than today.
It's pretty lose-lose for everyone involved no matter what you do.