Call me crazy if you want, but I've always suspected that Garak (spelling?) from Deep Space Nine was supposed to be gay.
I think he was suppose to be considered "omni-sexual".
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Ironically, all this discussion about tolerance and seeing different types cast, reminds me of one of the last episodes of the original series, where they say that women couldn't be captains of star ships. Huh?! Talk about sexism.
Different times, my friend. Now we have women in combat roles and even a captaining ships. Progress comes slow to humans sometimes...
Ironically, all this discussion about tolerance and seeing different types cast, reminds me of one of the last episodes of the original series, where they say that women couldn't be captains of star ships. Huh?! Talk about sexism.Different times, my friend. Now we have women in combat roles and even a captaining ships. Progress comes slow to humans sometimes...
What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.
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Like I said earlier in this thread, Roddenberry is dead, anything special about Star Trek died with him. It'd just another sci-fi franchise now, and no amount of nerdrage is going to change that, frankly.
Why do you have to put this in such a douchey way, I wonder?
I just got back from the new Star Trek movie. While I saw no hint of a gay character in the film (sorry, OP!), the movie made a TON of effort to remain true to the spirit of the original series, and even lingered overlong in the credits to dedicate the film to Gene Roddenberry and Majel Barret Roddenberry.
So why the "frankly" and the "nerdrage"?
You're just coming off as unnecessarily hostile, in my view.
Chillax, brother.
Look at my PFS faction. I'm allergic to things starting with "c" and ending in "x".
I will watch my tone, however ;)
What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.
They were forced to ditch the female first mate by the network, according to Roddenberry. Of course, they managed to sneak it back in via the two-part repackage of the original pilot.
They were forced to ditch the female first mate by the network, according to Roddenberry. Of course, they managed to sneak it back in via the two-part repackage of the original pilot.
What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.
There is certainly a difference though between not having a woman in command and actively stating that woman CAN'T be in command. I seriously doubt that the Network told them, "You need to write a story where you put women back in their place."
There is certainly a difference though between not having a woman in command and actively stating that woman CAN'T be in command. I seriously doubt that the Network told them, "You need to write a story where you put women back in their place."
But I don't think they did and I think Star Trek was, in part, reacting against putting "women back in their place". I did a little digging and I don't have it on DVD to review myself, but it's the last episode in which Janice Lester says "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women." It's an accusatory statement and I don't believe it's echoed by any of the main cast members as a norm or political position of the series.
It's a statement critical of sexist society, in this case StarFleet, and the resentment the sexism breeds. As such, you could also see it as a reaction against the network's demand (according to Roddenberry) that there be no woman in such a command role as First Officer.
There is certainly a difference though between not having a woman in command and actively stating that woman CAN'T be in command. I seriously doubt that the Network told them, "You need to write a story where you put women back in their place."But I don't think they did and I think Star Trek was, in part, reacting against putting "women back in their place". I did a little digging and I don't have it on DVD to review myself, but it's the last episode in which Janice Lester says "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women." It's an accusatory statement and I don't believe it's echoed by any of the main cast members as a norm or political position of the series.
It's a statement critical of sexist society, in this case StarFleet, and the resentment the sexism breeds. As such, you could also see it as a reaction against the network's demand (according to Roddenberry) that there be no woman in such a command role as First Officer.
You can watch it here: CBS: Classic Star Trek
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What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.Ironically, all this discussion about tolerance and seeing different types cast, reminds me of one of the last episodes of the original series, where they say that women couldn't be captains of star ships. Huh?! Talk about sexism.Different times, my friend. Now we have women in combat roles and even a captaining ships. Progress comes slow to humans sometimes...
That would be "Number 2". played by Majel Berret, otherwise known as Gene Rodenberry's wife. According to what I read "Number 2" was a clone in the pilot. Spock was still the science officer though.
Given that three were more than a few women admirals sitting at the Starfleet Academy. The omission of a character that would have required some explanation in an otherwise crowded strip wasn't too bad of a problem.
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There is certainly a difference though between not having a woman in command and actively stating that woman CAN'T be in command. I seriously doubt that the Network told them, "You need to write a story where you put women back in their place."They were forced to ditch the female first mate by the network, according to Roddenberry. Of course, they managed to sneak it back in via the two-part repackage of the original pilot.
What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.
I wish I had my guide to the first series, but there was an episode that a woman who was very jelous of Kirk who washed out of Star Fleet if I remember. She performed some sort of mind swap on him if as I recall.
That might have been the the network getting it's say in the war of the sexes issue.
What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.Ironically, all this discussion about tolerance and seeing different types cast, reminds me of one of the last episodes of the original series, where they say that women couldn't be captains of star ships. Huh?! Talk about sexism.Different times, my friend. Now we have women in combat roles and even a captaining ships. Progress comes slow to humans sometimes...That would be "Number 2". played by Majel Berret, otherwise known as Gene Rodenberry's wife. According to what I read "Number 2" was a clone in the pilot. Spock was still the science officer though.
Given that three were more than a few women admirals sitting at the Starfleet Academy. The omission of a character that would have required some explanation in an otherwise crowded strip wasn't too bad of a problem.
She was "Number 1" (as in 1st officer, same thing Picard calls Riker), not "Number 2".
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I was laughing at some of the comments put up on I09's sight were people were complaining about plot holes where there were none, just understated plot points.
One person complained that Scotty being on the planet that that Kirk just happened to crash into was too hard to swallow. I thought it was perfectly reasonable that "Admiral Archer" an Enterprise captain himself caught up in a "temporal war' put Scotty on the planet on the first place as under the guise of punishing him for losing his beagle. I don't think that was just a joke, JJ Abrams is very detail oriented and that was just Easter egg thrown in for people who really follow the plot closely.
I found the plot of the movie very solid and when I look back across all of the Trek story lines, I have to wonder where the "alternative Timeline" actually starts. In this last movie or in the the Enterprise TV show. JJ Abbrams has done for me what he has done so well for others. He has me asking more questions about what I just saw, rather than having all my questions answered, and being happy at the same time.
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She was "Number 1" (as in 1st officer, same thing Picard calls Riker), not "Number 2".What made it so strange was that in the original pilot, Captain Pike had a female first officer. It would seem as if TOS had taken a step backwards in that regard.Ironically, all this discussion about tolerance and seeing different types cast, reminds me of one of the last episodes of the original series, where they say that women couldn't be captains of star ships. Huh?! Talk about sexism.Different times, my friend. Now we have women in combat roles and even a captaining ships. Progress comes slow to humans sometimes...That would be "Number 2". played by Majel Berret, otherwise known as Gene Rodenberry's wife. According to what I read "Number 2" was a clone in the pilot. Spock was still the science officer though.
Given that three were more than a few women admirals sitting at the Starfleet Academy. The omission of a character that would have required some explanation in an otherwise crowded strip wasn't too bad of a problem.
You're right, I stand corrected.
I somehow feel like I have to mention in this thread the rather hilarious at times relationship between Bashir and O'Brien on DS9. Do I need to say more?
I don't think that was gay at all. But in trek there are more then a few races that place little restrictions on sex or what sex your partner is
I somehow feel like I have to mention in this thread the rather hilarious at times relationship between Bashir and O'Brien on DS9. Do I need to say more?
My understanding is that the actors realized what was going on and chose to play the Garak-Bashir relationship gay. Then Paramount caught on and suddenly Bashir is spending all his time with O'Brien instead and acting more or less the same way. Which absolutely, totally deflected any suspicion that the characters were gay. Especially that one episode where they came out of the holosuites wearing bright silver catsuits with their hands all over one another. Laughing too, as I recall.
But not the same as having an honest-to-goodness gay character.
I'm not saying that O'Brien and Bashir actually were gay. But I do seem to remember O'Brien having some lines about how he liked Julian more than his wife and wished she was more like him. That combined with how they were almost always together makes the jokes really easy.
I'm not saying that O'Brien and Bashir actually were gay. But I do seem to remember O'Brien having some lines about how he liked Julian more than his wife and wished she was more like him. That combined with how they were almost always together makes the jokes really easy.
That was more or less my point. :)