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I have three boys that I want to start introducing to 4th edition. I'm wondering what types of adventures I should use with them. They tried playing Star Wars for awhile but couldn't get a grip on the idea that not everything was something to kill. Should I just stick to dungeon crawls until they get the hang of it?
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Maybe a few kill encounters in a row will make them want something a little different. Then you can throw a damsel in distress in there, leading to a king who thanks them for rescuing his daughter, knighting them and sending them on a grand quest, etc.
When I was 15 I didn't even have a grip on how the game was attempting to challenge me. In the Secret of Bone Hill, we invaded the Baron's home (aren't all Barons evil?) and found him sleeping in his bed. We also found a wand of magic missile with 100 charges. "I shoot the Baron with it!" "How many charges?" "All of them!"
I've actually run games a lot with kids. Yes they do like the combat, but soon enough they want more. A compelling hook at the beginning and an intriguing plot (but not too complicated) go miles toward creating an adventure that is more than "kill the monster, take its treasure". Comical and fun NPCs are important, as are "fatherly" characters that can guide the PCs. If all else fails, perhaps introduce scenes in which straight forward combat could have dire consequences (but not deadly). In other words, sure the kids can choose combat, but they soon learn that to fight in every scene could be detrimental to their well being.
Then again, some kids just want combat after combat. It's up to you whether that's what you are willing to give them. If so, great. If not, explain it to them. Tell them you aren't interested in running such a game.
Hope everything goes well. Running games for kids has been some of the most richly satisfying gaming experiences I've had. When they come up with a clever solution to a problem that my adult mind would never have even considered, it's an awesome thing!
I recommend that you make their "missions" clear and straightforward, such as "A rich merchant is looking for heroes to get back his wagons, stolen by bandits."
If they do something dumb, warn them of the consequences and give them a chance (one and only one chance) to reconsider. ("You know that if you attack the merchant, you'll be arrested!") If they persist, hold them responsible for their decisions. ("A large group of guardsmen is coming. One shouts, "Hold! You're under arrest!")
Morally, kids tend to see things in "black and white". When they plan to do something evil, tell them. ("That is an evil act, and people will start thinking you're one of the bad guys if you do it.")
I do "softball" some encounters for my kids, allowing "unusual" schemes to succeed when I might demand more detailed plans from an adult. Despite that, my kids know that if they do something they were warned would be risky, I'll play it honestly, letting things play out realistically.
I explain how particular monsters decide on their targets. ("Hmm. Foulbreath the Ogre sees a Drow standing next to the millstone, not even taking cover: He's going to charge!") Generally, this teaches them to pay attention to the terrain and where their allies are.
Another thought: although adults appreciate a sandbox approach to adventure, I recommend something a little more railroad-y for kids. Keep the story moving along for them, and they are more likely to stay engaged in it.
This is something I'm working on, too. I have a campaign going with my kids and they seemed to catch on with dungeon crawl kinda stuff as well. We've only just gotten started, so we'll see when they become interested in expanding. (Also, they are ages almost 6, 7, and 9 - so they are younger then when I started.)
For our campaign, to give some overall motivation I came up with the PCs being a part of Dungeon Race! They have it once every 100 years where teams of adventurer wanna-be's try their hand at clearing out dungeons that have been causing trouble. They totally dug that concept and ran with it.
We'll see when they become eager for a deeper story, but my tentative plan is to start off with some basic dungeon crawl stuff (probably WotC H adventures to save prep time) for the Heroic tier. Then by the time they hit paragon, hopefully they will be more involved and I can bring out a larger threat. Dungeon Race isn't just a contest, it's a test to find a team of adventurers who can face a great prophesied challenge or some such. Not sure on the details yet, but they all like the MM cover and want to face Orcus someday, so hopefully we'll build up to that some point down the road.
Oh, the other suggestion I would include - at least in my experience - work in a good amount of humor. I describe the action a bit more slapstick than I would with my adult players with kobolds being bonked on the head, and with knees wobbling falling over unconscious, or when dropped to 0, dropping everything and running away yipping in terror - that sort of stuff. But the kids have a lot of fun with it and it holds their interest, which can be tricky with the really young one I have.
Personally, I started in 6th grade (so I was 11, I think??), and I just dove right in playing about how I play now - with story and personality development, etc. - just with more cliche.
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Another thought: although adults appreciate a sandbox approach to adventure, I recommend something a little more railroad-y for kids. Keep the story moving along for them, and they are more likely to stay engaged in it.
That might have been the problem with Star Wars. I was trying to run them through the Dawn of Defiance campaign.
As corny as it is, the old D&D cartoon show might be a good way to help introduce the game to younger kids. It's been out on DVD for a while now.
It's got iconic monsters (beholders, orcs, bullywugs) kids as protagonists, emphasizes puzzles and thinking and making allies over combat, but still has some fighting.
The way classes, the DM, encounters, etc. are handled in a TV show VS the way you would do it in a game make good subjects to talk about after or during the show, and could help them realize how different a roleplaying session is from a non-interactive story medium like TV or books.
Personally, I started in 6th grade (so I was 11, I think??), and I just dove right in playing about how I play now - with story and personality development, etc. - just with more cliche.
That's one of the good things about younger kids, the cliches are new to them, and you can have a lot of fun introducing them. Sometimes simple works wonders.
I have three boys that I want to start introducing to 4th edition. I'm wondering what types of adventures I should use with them. They tried playing Star Wars for awhile but couldn't get a grip on the idea that not everything was something to kill. Should I just stick to dungeon crawls until they get the hang of it?
How about you start off with the basic adventure in the dmg but have an extra npc and then have the npc kidnapped after he/she is carrying the party treasure sort of a nodwick character and the Pcs have to decide whether to rescue him or lose all of the treasure he was carrying for them?
Another possibility is explaining someone has charmed a number of the baron's guards and they must capture them alive to learn who was behind this attack so they can then rescue the princess since the guards have taken to hiding in the catacombs beneath a nearby ruin and the villain has the princess and will escape capture along with any reward the Pcs are looking for unless they find out whats going on and that means cooperating with each other to track down the missing guards so they can eventually learn where the villain is since he released them in various areas to cover up his trail believing the guards would be killed thereby foiling any pursuit...
Of course you've then got to decide who the villain is of course!
As corny as it is, the old D&D cartoon show might be a good way to help introduce the game to younger kids. It's been out on DVD for a while now.
It's got iconic monsters (beholders, orcs, bullywugs) kids as protagonists, emphasizes puzzles and thinking and making allies over combat, but still has some fighting.The way classes, the DM, encounters, etc. are handled in a TV show VS the way you would do it in a game make good subjects to talk about after or during the show, and could help them realize how different a roleplaying session is from a non-interactive story medium like TV or books.
Great idea!
Also, that reminds me - my kids love Scourge of Worlds as well. Although the first time through we had one of the TPK endings, and second time we survived, so now my son (7 year old) is worried whenever we deviate from the choices that led us to victory once. But I think he's finally figuring out that there isn't just one safe set of choices through that story.
Warning however, there is some mild language - especially between Lidda and Regdar sassing each other. Of course, I think their snide comments are the best part of it.
Out of curiosity did anything develop from Scott Rouse talking to Warner time?
There was talk about a new D&D series whether based on wrath of the dragon god or an animated series but there's been nothing since, I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about this.
Out of curiosity, do you think I should roll up their characters, or allow them to do it? My sons are 11, 8, and 6.
You do it, well maybe let the 11 year old roll up his own if he wants but have say 4-6 pregenerated characters available so they can select from them unless the 11 year old wants to do it instead.
Out of curiosity, do you think I should roll up their characters, or allow them to do it? My sons are 11, 8, and 6.
(AARGGHH! Freakin' "Back" key on this keyboard lost my first post. ANYWAY... guess I won't be so long-winded this time)
For my kids, we used the Character Builder and it really helped. Even if you aren't a DDI subscriber, I think the demo is still out there with the first 3 levels from the PHB. That should be enough to get started.
The process we used was looking through the books and my miniatures for inspiration. Then talking about the classes in general, and lastly using the CB and just walking through "Which of these choices do you want?"
However, we also had some changes as we went along, and I was fine with that. My oldest (9) started with a druid, but then got totally fixated on wanting a pet, so last night we rebuilt her PC as a beastmaster ranger with druid multiclass. My son (7) has always been just wanting to be fighters, even in every little one-shot we ran. But after he went from being interested in a flaming sword, to wondering about multiclassing into wizard, I talked to him and told him about the swordmage again and it finally clicked as the class he really wanted. I think the only reason my youngest (almost 6) hasn't changed her PC is because she's not really into the rules, and I reskinned her cleric as a "fairy summoner" - she summons a fairy who hits a bad guy then heals one of her friends before flying away. As long as she gets to do "fairy magic", I could give her any class and she'd be happy.
But it is taking them a bit to realize just what they want their characters to be. Thankfully, though, it appears to be more figuring out how best to realize their idea than really switching ideas (that's me - too many fun DMPC ideas to play!).
Using the CB, however, it was no problem at all making PCs with my kids.
For my kids, we used the Character Builder and it really helped. Even if you aren't a DDI subscriber, I think the demo is still out there with the first 3 levels from the PHB. That should be enough to get started.
Yes still using it in fact well until they reach 4th level...
[quote=]The process we used was looking through the books and my miniatures for inspiration. Then talking about the classes in general, and lastly using the CB and just walking through "Which of these choices do you want?"
However, we also had some changes as we went along, and I was fine with that. My oldest (9) started with a druid, but then got totally fixated on wanting a pet, so last night we rebuilt her PC as a beastmaster ranger with druid multiclass. My son (7) has always been just wanting to be fighters, even in every little one-shot we ran. But after he went from being interested in a flaming sword, to wondering about multiclassing into wizard, I talked to him and told him about the swordmage again and it finally clicked as the class he really wanted. I think the only reason my youngest (almost 6) hasn't changed her PC is because she's not really into the rules, and I reskinned her cleric as a "fairy summoner" - she summons a fairy who hits a bad guy then heals one of her friends before flying away. As long as she gets to do "fairy magic", I could give her any class and she'd be happy.
But it is taking them a bit to realize just what they want their characters to be. Thankfully, though, it appears to be more figuring out how best to realize their idea than really switching ideas (that's me - too many fun DMPC ideas to play!).
Using the CB, however, it was no problem at all making PCs with my kids.
Interesting idea about the cleric, I wonder if the phb 2 has anything to do with summoning?
I do know about the guardian daily power, but that is an interesting idea although I'm not referring to its use in 4e though.
My advice is rather edition/game non-specific .
From my experience having self-learned roleplaying (playing and DMing) form the ground at a young age through boardgames like HeroQuest I would almost suggest getting a hold of a copy of the quest book for Descent: Journeys in the Dark, or even check out the HeroQuest fan site for the old quest books.
Those are all fairly simple dungeon crawls in structure to which you can add NPC interaction in 'town' (or the characters home base). The dungeon is where you kill things or rescue towns folk. Town is where you do all the social interaction and no combat. It creates very clear zones.
You can also see that kind of break down in something like the old Keep on the Borderlands. The keep was a safe base with friendly NPCs. The Caves of Chaos were places full of monster and things to kill. Make clear and keep it simple. It won't take to long before you can start blurring the line between the two concepts. A good place to start there is the 'travel' between the Dungeon and the Town through the Wilderness. Once your boys are comfortable with the first two the Wilderness can being including both combat and non-combat encounters.
Out of curiosity, do you think I should roll up their characters, or allow them to do it? My sons are 11, 8, and 6.
I'd let them choose their race and class, so they have some investment in their characters. Beyond that, you should probably do the rest. I'd also make concessions for roles - if every kid wants to play a fighter, I'd let them and just make sure the encounters allow them to succeed even if they don't fill all the necessary roles. Give them some heal potions if no one wants to play a leader.
I hope we are helping!