What? There's Gauls in Galt?!
Next you'll be telling me Pepe Le Pew is a Galtic were-masher.
oh Dear. you've now installed the irresistable urge to have Pepe the Pew (or a human version at leasT) appear in the (modern era ) game I'm currently reffing...
On topic: Golarion - take what you like and leave the rest. Personally Galt doesn't appeal to me either, so when I run Pathfinder, it won't be in Galt... but hey, its a BIG playground we've got here.
(even bigger for me, as there's an island called Harn just off of the West coast in my world...)
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You and me both, sad I enjoyed some of the novels too. My white hot hate has yet to cool, one bit i'll tell you that muchAn understandable misgiving, but I don't think one that has any significant probability attached to it: just ask fans of the Forgotten Realms, whose molten, white hot fury against Wizards of the Coast right now knows no rivals!
It made me stop buying their stuff. And not just FR. Everything. They want to fire me as a fan? Fine, if my money isn't wanted there, I'll take it elsewhere.
Should Paizo do the same - listen to whiny noncustomers and change the setting to make them customers - I'd do the same again.
But I doubt Paizo'd do that.
The only novels I have that take place during 4E Realms is Blackstaff Tower (a very good read) and Mistshore (not bad). And they were both given to me (thank you GenCon and not being able to sell the books because of street date, but being able to give them away.)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I'm a little disappointed that, out of the five "major" nations (Andoran, Cheliax, Taldor, Qadira, Osirion), none of them really strike me as a plain vanilla, medieval England type of setting, at least not from the artwork I've seen so far. It's the same thing with Eberron -- it sometimes seems like it's striving too hard to be different than the "typical" setting (e.g. Greyhawk).Taldor is one such locale. Lastwall is another. Mendev is a third, and you might even include (if you can tolerate a bit of Eastern European flair) Brevoy.
But Taldor is the one you want. We're going to be making that a little more clear in the way we depict that nation artistically going forward.
--Erik
Nerrat will be so happy. He's still struggling with the idea that Taldor's current ruler isn't the benevolent king under which he wishes to serve. Guess he'll just have to depose him.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Most fans of more classic s&s would roll their eyes after reading about those elements, quit to buy the line and change to another setting. NOT ME. I am ready to rant and complain on the forums where maybe some designer reads it. And thats because I like many of the parts of Golarion so much that IMO its worth my time and energy. Additionally Golarion is a world in developement and the designers have still time to overthink artwork and other things.
And, hey, that's one thing we all love about Paizo. They hear our ranting.
The only novels I have that take place during 4E Realms is Blackstaff Tower (a very good read) and Mistshore (not bad). And they were both given to me (thank you GenCon and not being able to sell the books because of street date, but being able to give them away.)
But they are all saddled with the unrealms like timeline...so yeah dead to me...kinda sad really
Director of Narrative
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I find myself not so much in a tiff if the political or sociological world strays far from the norm, because stories….really what we’re all here for, are everlasting. Most legends are saying the same thing. You can read books upon books of stories of ancient heroes and find the same analogue. The window dressing is the issue. Some folks don’t like a certain fashion or decoration, but that is hardly a reason to throw it all out.
I recognize that some past RP worlds have turned me off in the past, but I also recognize that a few of these didn’t really try to bring me in. Golarion at least brings most of us in. Groups of gamers could spend 15 years of gaming in the same area, (something that has happened to my Greyhawk-centric group over the past decade—+-ish).
However, echoing a number of posters here, there is no reason that someone should feel isolated, no matter how some people feel about the world. I think it has been crafted in such a way that the world, and system, can be enjoyed by a broad spectrum, and I’d hate to see that GH or FR dogma-inducing BS turn away a potential buyer. No matter what the books say, you can still have the game you want here….with a bare touch of work.
stories...really what we’re all here for...[not] dogma-inducing BS ...
If this is what Bro. Daigle is preaching, then I'm coming in at the altar call and proceeding to do the Jake Blues thing. (Forward about 2.5 minutes to cut to the chase.)
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Director of Narrative
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...stories...really what we’re all here for...[not] dogma-inducing BS ...If this is what Bro. Daigle is preaching, then I'm coming in at the altar call and proceeding to do the Jake Blues thing. (Forward about a 2.5 minutes to cut to the chase.)
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.
That said, I certainly take the Jake and Elwood approach to it all.
It's 910 miles to Hyrantam, we've got a fully tanked up fighter, a half-wit cleric, a dude that can work in the dark and we're packing magic items...
Hit it!
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Ok, good to know. I am not very close with the setting before 4e. My info about faerun is rather from the new edition.
Cool man a bit o heads up, The old realms is nothing like the new realms. The new setting is just that...A new setting they just reuse some names.
So when talking realms it's good to point out new or old setting as they are not the same thing, it's like saying eberron and greyhawk are the same setting.Not picking on ya you did not make the confusion, just saying The realms is more like Golarion then you think
Forgotten Realms, and the Misbegotten Realms...
I say the realms and the new setting myself..or mad max beyond waterdeep. Whichever ya like. The new setting does not offend the new setting players as much however
You and me both, sad I enjoyed some of the novels too.
Ever since I stopped reading those, I started reading a whole lot of other books, and have not regretted that, either.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Mona -- Really? I was getting a Byzantine empire vibe off of Taldor based on what I'd seen. (Now maybe I'll complain! ;) )
No, it's that too. The best way to ping the aesthetic of Taldor is to imagine the crusader kingdoms of Acre and the like perched on the edge of the Holy Land. So you have knights in shining armor _and_ architecture and cultural motifs that date back to the ancient world.
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In Golarion, you need to pack your horse and travel. Golarion is a patch-work world, as people have said, and --here's the important part-- where flavorful setting features are more localized than you should expect. Yes, Numeria is a "Barrier Peaks"-like super-science setting, but the entire campaign world is not awash in high-tech artifacts, like you might expect. Galt, to use another good example, worries Andoran, provides fuel for some of the machinations in the River Kingdoms, and impacts Cheliax. But its influence doesn't go beyond that.
That's an important aspect of Golarion, and it's counter-intuitive.
From a European point of view I don't think that it's counter-intuitive at all. What I mean is that even in one country (i.e. Germany) there can be cultural differences which are not understood by the people themselves. If someone, let's say from Hamburg, comes to Munich, he enters a whole new world and may have more in common with his danish or dutch neighbors than with his fellow bavarian countrymen.
I live around 25 miles from the german-french borders and if I look at my neighbors I have to admit that they have basically no (or worse, a wrong) idea of how their french neighbors live. France could as well be in Australia, as far as they are concerned.
And surely Germany is much more influenced by contemporary (U.S.-) American culture than by any country in our direct neighborship.
That's not to say that there are no influences at all. What I mean is, that our own world is in such an inconsistent state that I have absolutely no problem to accept a little bit more inconsistency in any fantasy world.
I was thinking more along the lines of France before the French Revolution, but after Louis XIV. That probably shaped some of my notion of how "modern" I thought it was.
If I was to DM a campaign in Galt.
- I would have the Revolutionary Council outlaw medium to heavy armour (unless you are a member of the councils militia)as a symbol of the decadent aristocracy. Anybody caught wearing it would be sharing a kiss with Madame Guillotine.
- Make Hand Crossbows simple weapons
- 1/2 the price of alchemical ammunition
Draw inspiration from
- The Scarlet pimpernel.(Baroness Emma Orczy)
- Dick Turpin
- Ned Kelly
- Alexander Dumas
Then for the BIG BAD I would have a little corporal with lots of ambition.
Galt would make the perfect place swashbuckling campaign setting.
I was thinking more along the lines of France before the French Revolution, but after Louis XIV. That probably shaped some of my notion of how "modern" I thought it was.If I was to DM a campaign in Galt.
Just to clarify, my quote above was referring to Taldor, not Galt. All the talk about wigs, snobbery, obsession with duelling, fashion, bon vivants, art appreciation, snobbery and political skullduggery in the Pathfinder Society description of Taldor (for instance) makes me think more about the court of the Sun King than "crusader kingdoms". YMMV, and no offense to the French!
All the talk about wigs, snobbery, obsession with duelling, fashion, bon vivants, art appreciation, snobbery and political skullduggery in the Pathfinder Society description of Taldor (for instance) makes me think more about the court of the Sun King than "crusader kingdoms". YMMV, and no offense to the French!
None taken :)
Mona -- Really? I was getting a Byzantine empire vibe off of Taldor based on what I'd seen. (Now maybe I'll complain! ;) )No, it's that too. The best way to ping the aesthetic of Taldor is to imagine the crusader kingdoms of Acre and the like perched on the edge of the Holy Land. So you have knights in shining armor _and_ architecture and cultural motifs that date back to the ancient world.
Nice...that's an appealing mashup.
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Just to clarify, my quote above was referring to Taldor, not Galt. All the talk about wigs, snobbery, obsession with duelling, fashion, bon vivants, art appreciation, snobbery and political skullduggery in the Pathfinder Society description of Taldor (for instance) makes me think more about the court of the Sun King than "crusader kingdoms". YMMV, and no offense to the French!
None taken at all. We are very proud of having cast down this kind of aristos ;-)
Just to clarify, my quote above was referring to Taldor, not Galt.
Sorry bad skimming on my part.
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Just to clarify, my quote above was referring to Taldor, not Galt. All the talk about wigs, snobbery, obsession with duelling, fashion, bon vivants, art appreciation, snobbery and political skullduggery in the Pathfinder Society description of Taldor (for instance) makes me think more about the court of the Sun King than "crusader kingdoms". YMMV, and no offense to the French!None taken at all. We are very proud of having cast down this kind of aristos ;-)
Well, YOU are proud. And I'm offended if I want to :) Just kidding.
Though in truth, what you describe started earlier than the Sun King. The three musketteers are set during the reign of his father.Plenty of intrigue as well.
And before that, the Hundred Years war and the Religion Wars were pretty "interesting" as well for the purposes you describe.
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Mona -- Really? I was getting a Byzantine empire vibe off of Taldor based on what I'd seen. (Now maybe I'll complain! ;) )No, it's that too. The best way to ping the aesthetic of Taldor is to imagine the crusader kingdoms of Acre and the like perched on the edge of the Holy Land. So you have knights in shining armor _and_ architecture and cultural motifs that date back to the ancient world.
Aaaaah, that's almost better than I thought.
Can't wait for the guide.
Since we're on the topic, I'm surprised no one has mentioned all the sewers as a modernity of Golarion that bothers them. I know my halfling PFS character is sick to death of walking through human excrement. How 'bout less modern sewers? Kthxbi.
Actually the ancient Romans had sewers that were wide enough in some places for wagons to travel through them.
Hasn't everybody sat on a greco-roman toilet?
Looks sheepish.
Is THIS how paizo envisions magic scholars in its new D&D world? A girl in a japanese schooldress with magic staff? :(
There's one picture you do not care for and you're willing to write the whole setting off as a bad idea? I'm not trying to sound snarky, I just want to make sure I understand. I mean I've seen plenty of RPG art that I have been rather disappointed in (plenty of it from Wizards of the Coast) but I move on. I just want to understand your prospective.
I heart that illustration... :(
And she's a gnome.
(I guess you don't like the illustration on p. 34 either.)
Where have I heard this line before and the individual(s) is still posting on the boards? HMMMMMM!!!!!
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Creative Director
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I like Fantasy as REH, Tolkien, Moorcock and Leiber have written. But not this.
The thing is... these writers are among the ones that the Publisher and the Editor in Chief at Paizo love. Add Lovecraft, Jack Vance, and Clark Ashton Smith and you're pretty solid in the types of writers that inspire myself and Erik. There is a LOT of Golarion you can go to to get regions inspired by these writers. I can only assume that you haven't read much of our flagship line, the Pathfinder Adventure Path in order to not see the significant influence these authors have had on the world.
That said, we are trying to appeal to a broad base of gamer. Those who don't enjoy one part of Golarion can, hopefully, find enjoyment in others. Don't like Vikings but love pirates? Ignore the Lands of the Linnorm Kings and focus your interest on the Shackles and the Sodden lands.
I'm sorry if the fact that it's not ONLY those authors who inspire EVERYONE who works on Golarion makes the setting a no-go for anyone. But if it's really that huge of a problem... continuing to make angry posts and ignoring the fact that the majority of Golarion IS inspired by authors like the ones you listed is just going to frustrate everyone involved... and maybe you should consider looking for another messageboard to post to as a result?
I hate to lose customers... but I'd rather lose a customer than keep one who hates what we do and constantly annoy and enrage that customer.
Anyway... this thread's pretty much devolving into poison. Please try to keep your posts civil and friendly, whether you're being critical of Paizo or defending Paizo. Otherwise I'll just lock the thread.
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I like the Andoran Eagle Knight uniform, and the gnome schoolgirl (hmmm, maybe I have a uniform fetish…).
I’m not totally sold on Galt; I have no problem with it being based on a “modern” time period, or the technology or anything. I’m just not sure that such a seemingly long and endless period of revolution is sustainable. I would think that the country would have either stabilised into a proper democracy (or a dictatorship), completely collapsed into anarchy, or else have been conquered by a stronger neighbour by now.
But I have no problem with the technology, clothing, art, anything like that.
EDIT: And giving up on a whole setting because you don't like one little corner of it, and some of the art in the books strikes me as ... odd. But anyway.
Be glad I will not further disturb you because I think I dont wait untill the Taldan book comes out. Pathfinder is not that what I think fantasy should be, so I quit the line. NOW.
To quote one of my favorite lines from Mary Poppins "And don't let the door hit you on the way out, dearie."
Sorry, James, not meaning to add to any bad feelings.
To everyone else, let's get back to the party and have fun in Golarian!
Multiple Choice
This whole thing taught me a very valuable lesson.
Was it:
A. Never listen to Chris Mortika
B. Trying to sympathize with another's different perspective is always a mistake: Hit 'em first; hit 'em hard.
C. Never refer to page numbers.
D. Never leave the Off Topic section.
E. There is no lesson and no learner: Tat tvam asi.
Multiple Choice
This whole thing taught me a very valuable lesson.
Was it:
A. Never listen to Chris Mortika
B. Trying to sympathize with another's different perspective is always a mistake: Hit 'em first; hit 'em hard.
C. Never refer to page numbers.
D. Never leave the Off Topic section.
E. There is no lesson and no learner: Tat tvam asi.
I think a lot of folks could sympathize that he found some things jarring, but he didn't want to listen to any of the very good advice for how to deal with it. IMO he wanted to complain, and somehow wanted those complaints to be taken as a rule for the way things should go ::sigh:: This world is big enough for all, and we can all play the way we like somewhere in it, if we're broadminded enough to do so.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Multiple Choice
This whole thing taught me a very valuable lesson.
Was it:
A. Never listen to Chris Mortika
B. Trying to sympathize with another's different perspective is always a mistake: Hit 'em first; hit 'em hard.
C. Never refer to page numbers.
D. Never leave the Off Topic section.
E. There is no lesson and no learner: Tat tvam asi.
Oh, oh! I know. It was ...
F. Don't let your wife catch you carefully examining pages 34 & 53 again!
Well, I was actually trying to be a part of the "move on and have fun," and didn't mean to bring you back down to somberness, Gamer Girrl. Don't you want to tell me what lesson I should learn? Here's your chance! I may never listen to anyone again, depending on how the people speak!
TD -
Heh-heh. And the wife is a little asian gal who went to one of those boarding schools...
I tell ya, there are threads that have had me biting my tongue (fingers?) so many times and not posting all my super-witticisms, and this was one of them!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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TD -
Heh-heh. And the wife is a little asian gal who went to one of those boarding schools...
I tell ya, there are threads that have had me biting my tongue (fingers?) so many times and not posting all my super-witticisms, and this was one of them!
How do you know my wife?
Yeah, I know, a lot of super serious threads but ya gotta live, laugh, and love.
I was talking about Mrs. M! You too?
(Edit: Scary. I see we also have the same freaky mental powers as well. BTW, glad to hear your third nipple was no medical concern.)
Well, I was actually trying to be a part of the "move on and have fun," and didn't mean to bring you back down to somberness, Gamer Girrl. Don't you want to tell me what lesson I should learn? Here's your chance! I may never listen to anyone again, depending on how the people speak!
LOL! Lesson time from teacher, okay ... A picture says a thousand words, but did you have to think of those words? :)
Much fun with your napoleon/manga-elves/Korvosan Tourismus Minister/tophat+3/osirion world. Its maybe a kind of teen fantasy like Harry Potter or Narnia is, but its not mine. I like Fantasy as REH, Tolkien, Moorcock and Leiber have written. But not this.
What a confused person that was. Should have known when the realms map confused him I guess, just was not his type setting at all
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These kinds of threads always make me sad, because I can never quite see the perspective realistically being taken to the extreme that would produce such anger, and because they do tend to poison the well.
For what it's worth, I like Galt. I like guillotines. I like Andoran uniforms. I would not want Andoran uniforms to be the standard spreading across Golarion, as I like medieval styles and Osirioni aesthetics and etc, but that doesn't mean I don't like them where they are.
I'm ambivalent towards Academae school uniforms. I'm not assuming that scholars across Golarion or even in Korvosa dress that way, and that has never been Paizo's intent(seriously, that accusation confused me).
I have absolutely no problem with uniformed Eagle Knights, Mwangj tribesmen, or full-plate Mendevian paladins fighting Kamen Rider-looking bug assassins and hillbilly "YOU GOT A PURDY MOUF!" ogres. That doesn't take me out of the setting at all. And if something doesn't mesh with the themes I'm working with in a game I'm running, I simply don't use it. I wouldn't want those bits taken out at the cost of everyone else's fun.
And personally, I expect Numerian, Nexian, and Gebish clothing, architecture, and tech levels to be downright crazy. Crazy awesome.
But then I grew up with Mystara and Planescape. Yeah...
heh Planescape is gold, it does not get much more fantasy then that, but planescape would have hurt him with its 18th century slang and dress
*Sigh* Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And then there are times when no one wins. *Packing it in and starting afresh tomorrow*
I like the Andoran Eagle Knight uniform, and the gnome schoolgirl (hmmm, maybe I have a uniform fetish…).
I have problems with those pictures, too:
The eagle knight's head's too small.
The girl has a weird face.
The clothing, I love.
And I'm an inclusive person. My motto is: "many like it, keep it in." I don't like exclusive persons. Their motto is: "many hate it, keep it out." They're better off with wizards products. Paizo's more of the live and let live mentality. If you don't like that it's not just your world, Golarion isn't for you. And I'm grateful for that.