Old dragons shouldn't fail saves verses charm monster. It is just too mind warping. He sees the spell cast he knows the spell so he knows he's enchanted. As he watches the party walk into his lair and surely steel his treasure the GM wonders. What the heck does he do? He knowing he is enchanted seems to put him in a tricky position for a couple of weeks. Namely viewing this stinking human actions as favorable.
What would be his next step? Go get the spell removed or just wait till it wears off?
Charm Monster makes the subject friendly, not helpful. I like to think of that as a friend, but not a close friend.
So if a friend of yours (but not your best friend) came over to your house uninvited with some suspicious-looking punks you've never met before, would you just stand there and let them rummage around the place?
I would say that he'd let the spell wear off naturally, but that shouldn't stop him from tearing some of your players limb from limb!
Being friendly, possessive and greedy are not mutually exclusive or even evil and smart for that matter. His “friend” might want to “borrow” some of the stuff but I’m not sure this will come without a “let me go with you, just to make sure you don’t have any trouble with MY staff”.
... would you just stand there and let them rummage around the place?
I think that's where the non-leathal damage comes in!
Old dragons shouldn't fail saves verses charm monster. It is just too mind warping. He sees the spell cast he knows the spell so he knows he's enchanted. As he watches the party walk into his lair and surely steel his treasure the GM wonders. What the heck does he do? He knowing he is enchanted seems to put him in a tricky position for a couple of weeks. Namely viewing this stinking human actions as favorable.
What would be his next step? Go get the spell removed or just wait till it wears off?
I think this provides the perfect opportunity to role-play the greed of a dragon versus the willingness of a "trusted friend".
"You know Bob, as a trusted friend, you are welcome to come and visit my horde, but you know my rules against touching." <picks pc up with mouth and gently places him back away from horde. PC takes non-lethal crushing damage>
"But we really need to borrow that magic sword you have in order to accomplish our mission."
"Hmm. Well, Bob, I'd be happy to loan it to you, but you have to leave me something of equal or greater value. I may need my treasure while you are gone, and I'd hate to be caught short."
"But I'm your friend!!"
"Bob, of course you are my friend. That's why you are still breathing, and not being digested. Feel free to come back and visit anytime."
"But we really need the sword!!"
"It's been great! Come back anytime!" <gently nudges pc's out of lair. PC's take non-lethal damage from the dragon's "gentle" nudging.>
Keep in mind that if the dragon sees the PC casting against him (whether or not he is able to determine the spell through a spellcraft check) that you are well within your rights to say that they are in combat (assuming they weren't anyway). This gives the dragon a +10 to his save against the effect. That's pretty hefty. Hefty enough that the situation shouldn't come up too often. But... a bad roll can and does happen. You shouldn't punish a player and just keep something from happening if you don't like (if you really want to say this type of spell won't affect a dragon, then change their stats to make them immune and make sure the player has the chance for a Knowledge: Arcana chance to know this. It is just being mean to negate character actions... it would be like deciding that a sword no longer hurts a monster because you think he is dying too fast).
Anyway, to deal with the charmed dragon you would need to remember a few things about the charm rules (they aren't simple). First, try and think of it as a save or die spell, this way you don't feel cheated that the creature is suddenly not a threat (a dragon can be disintegrated after all).
As for what the creature would do, I don't think it is fair to say it is just what it would do for a friend (friendly disposition, not helpful). The rules compendium indicates:
"A charmed creature is entitled to an opposed Charisma check against the charming creature to resist requests to do something it wouldn't normally do even for a friend. If successful, the charmed creature decides not to go along with that particular request."
To me this indicates that the creature does have a chance of taking actions that it normally wouldn't for a friend. However, there is two caveats to this:
"a charmed creature never submits to a request that is obviously suicidal or greiviously harmful."
and
"If the charming creature requests that the charmed creature do something that is charmed creature is violently opposed to, the charmed creature can make a new saving throw to break free of the charming effects influence altogether."
So in the case of a dragon who has been charmed during a combat, it gets a +10 to its will save. If it fails, it drops out of combat (probably a little confused). If any ally of the charming caster continues to attack the dragon the charm is broken.
At this point the cast could ask things of the dragon that he could ask a friend and expect them to be carried out as long as they are in the dragons normal range of behaviour. If he is pushing things a bit then the dragon gets an opposed CHA check to resist (this would be things like perhaps attacking an enemy position if the dragon didn't feel that it would be likely to greviously harmed or killed). If the dragon is asked something that is very against its nature like "let us take some or all of your horde," then the dragon would immediately get a new save to break the charm effect, if not successful he would still get to make the opposed CHA check to see if he complies.
If all of that goes in the PCs favor, then just try and think of it as the PC having cast a Save or Die spell that worked for them, except you get to bring a very pissed off version of the creature back later for some revenge.
Above all though, if the player casts his charm spells he should have a chance of them being successful (and there a lot of hurdles there to overcome). It is a game and your job as DM isn't to make sure that the creatures do well, but that the players feel good about their characters and enjoy the game.
Sean Mahoney
Charming is not controlling. It just sways loyalty and reaction.
But let's face it ... your best allies are likely within your own party, and how many of them will let you take their stuff
... and then tack on whether or not they have the evil or possessive nature of many dragons?
Sorry, the party gets NOTHING from the dragon in this case ... or as stated above "Bob, I love you, but if you touch even one of my copper I'm going to have to make an example out of you!"
Yeah, I think he's finding an ally and evening the score next game.