The Magic Item Creation system is suitable to campaigns with high levels of magic, but less so to campaigns with lower prevalence of magic. Since Pathfinder is going to include guidelines on lower magic campaigns, I thought it would be a good idea if such guidelines (perhaps in the form of sidebar optional rules) included the magic item creation system.
The current system is decidedly industrial and it would be nice if some guidelines were provided for making it both more restricted and less like a question of economics/production efficiency. For example, I currently use a system where the players must retrieve specific rare components that I deliberately do not put a price-tag on, but I am open to other ideas and would certainly welcome some official guidelines if not rules on the matter.
For example, I currently use a system where the players must retrieve specific rare components that I deliberately do not put a price-tag on, but I am open to other ideas and would certainly welcome some official guidelines if not rules on the matter.
i like this idea, the only problem i see is that quickly it turns into farming, and proves the old rule, everything has a price.
For example, I currently use a system where the players must retrieve specific rare components that I deliberately do not put a price-tag on, but I am open to other ideas and would certainly welcome some official guidelines if not rules on the matter.i like this idea, the only problem i see is that quickly it turns into farming, and proves the old rule, everything has a price.
Yes, that is of course something that can happen with any rule for magic item creation, but official rules/guidelines on this (or some other rule) for low magic games would at least enable us to make decisions about what specific rare components are required less arbitrarily. High magic games could simply ignore those specific rare components.
I have an idea of how we could have 'specific' rare components that characters must acquire in low magic games (ignored in high magic games) without imposing their exact nature.
How should components relate to magic items? I would say as follows:
1) The component of a given item should be somehow related to what the magic item is designed to do.
2) It is necessary for the component to be sufficiently difficult to obtain given the item's power.
This can be based on creatures, which already have measures of their power: Hit Dice, Challenge Ratings or ECLs
The rule for components could therefore be something along the following lines: Creating magic item X requires a body part from a monster from category Y and of the power level Z.
Categories of monsters would be monster types, but could include additional characteristics (e.g. for a healm of underwater breathing, it must be a creature that lives in water). As much as I like hit dice, power level would probably be best measured by CR.
Time is the only factor that has prevented my group from magic item creation to any meaningful extent. Some campaigns just don't lend themselves to periodically taking a week or two or eight off to craft goodies.
So the players decide to try something different, and go with a rogue with UMD and wands instead of a wizard or cleric. Time is prohibitive if the party knows there's a bad guy out there, plotting.
I'm not sure what the best answer is, but a day per 1,000gp is too much, realism be damned. Maybe a sliding scale where higher-level crafters can craft faster? Like you can produce 1,000gp per day per character level? So by 10th, a 50,000gp item still can get finished in five days. That wand of cure light wounds still takes a day. Just a thought.
...I always felt crafting magic items should take longer...
Time is the only factor that has prevented my group from magic item creation to any meaningful extent. Some campaigns just don't lend themselves to periodically taking a week or two or eight off to craft goodies.
So the players decide to try something different, and go with a rogue with UMD and wands instead of a wizard or cleric. Time is prohibitive if the party knows there's a bad guy out there, plotting.
I'm not sure what the best answer is, but a day per 1,000gp is too much, realism be damned. Maybe a sliding scale where higher-level crafters can craft faster? Like you can produce 1,000gp per day per character level? So by 10th, a 50,000gp item still can get finished in five days. That wand of cure light wounds still takes a day. Just a thought.
This would make sense for a higher magic game, but in a lower magic game such a change would not be helpful.
Seems like the production of low-level magic items should be somewhat industrial. I can imagine that there's a local witch who cranks out potions for profit, or a magic crafters' guild. What I'd like to see is the Craft skill playing a larger role, rather than the assumption that any masterwork item serves equally well as a blank for magic item creation. The final craft check could result in the magic item gaining intelligence, or affinity for characters with attributes matching those of the crafter, or miscellaneous additional traits, or in the case of a poor result, defects causing unpredictable operation. Some rules or suggestions along these lines might make the Craft skill and discovery of new magic items more fun.
EDIT: I confused your use of "level" with character or power level. Now I see that you're talking about the overall rarity of magic in the setting. It seems to me you would want a formula to increase the cost of magic items in a setting where magic is more rare. A list of ingredients useful in the creation of magic items, categorized by rarity, and including plants, gems, blood and other parts of monsters, would be fun in both high and low magic settings, I think. Some ingredients might have to be harvested in specific conditions, like under the light of a full moon, or using an implement made of a specific metal. Buyers of such ingredients in a low magic setting might be few and far between.
I currently use a system where the players must retrieve specific rare components that I deliberately do not put a price-tag on
Flavor wise, I'd agree with you, and that works great with an open-ended homebrew style campaign where motivating the PCs to adventure is something you always need to work on. However if you already have a solid plot going (such as if you're running one of the APs) then fitting in side-treks to obtain is often more of a distraction than its worth, unless it can be tied in to the plot effectively. I guess what I'm saying is that system like that is best left to individual DMs.
That said, my players rarely create magic items, so I haven't had a chance to playtest the PF system in the web enhancement.
This would make sense for a higher magic game, but in a lower magic game such a change would not be helpful.
Fair enough, and a good point. I'm tugging in one direction (make crafting mechanically less punitive) and other DMs would pull in another. How about a nice side-bar?
Like the XP tables, we could have a Low, Medium, and High wealth and magic progression. In a low-magic campaign, there's less point in huge wealth-by-level numbers. So hey, make a formal table for DMs running those campaigns. Crafting (magical and perhaps mundane) mechanics get a value there too.
Just a thought.