It has been discussed how Paizo is reluctant to do hardcovers of completed APs because it would cannibalize the sales of new issues, since people would buy the old ones or wait instead of subscribing. And it is a perfectly grounded fear.
Therefore, I submit this idea for consideration (and I'm sure it has plenty of flaws I haven't considered.)
Only print hardcovers for APs that have completely sold out. And make that announcement publicly, and repeatedly.
That way, old APs will continue to be available, but those who would wait have no date or schedule to aim for, and in fact are incentivized to buy the back issues that are available in the interim.
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Doesn't that effectively gank subscribers, the customers who bought original issues, since hardcovers would likely be updated with errata, corrections and etc.?
Re-edits, fixing maps, corrections, additional sidebars (or additional content like with the Shackled City Hardcover) could also leave subscribers with the feeling that they're getting an inferior product (when compared to the shiny new hardcover).
Besides, old AP's are available in PDF format. It's not like they've gone anywhere.
-Skeld
Maybe subscribers who subscribed to the "sold out" AP's full original publication could get the PDF of the collection at a reduced price?
Just curious, but who cares if the book is hardcover or soft?
I find the Shackled City hardcover far superior to twelve (edit: oops...actually 11) issues of Dungeon magazine in terms of (1) durability, (2) organisation and (3) cost. YMMV, of course.
At any rate, it's an odd dilemma: for Age of Worms and Savage Tide, it was "The economics make sense, but we're not allowed to", but with Rise of the Runelords it's "We're allowed to, but the economics don't make sense".
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But the thing about Shackled city is that it brought together 12 issues of Dragon and 12 Issues of Dungeon...making far superior. But, the Pathfinder APs are compact in 6 issues...not 12 and 12.
I don't see a need for harbback APs, but as a subscriber, it wouldn't bother me if they re-released the APs as hard-bound once the AP is complete. More power to them. The last thing I wasnt Paizo to do is over-extend themselves financially, so if printinga hard-bound AP could hurt them, I'm against it.
But the thing about Shackled city is that it brought together 12 issues of Dragon and 12 Issues of Dungeon...making far superior. But, the Pathfinder APs are compact in 6 issues...not 12 and 12.
Actually, Shackled City didn't have corresponding Dragon articles. That only started with Age of Worms. Also it was only eleven issues.
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But the thing about Shackled city is that it brought together 12 issues of Dragon and 12 Issues of Dungeon...making far superior. But, the Pathfinder APs are compact in 6 issues...not 12 and 12.Actually, Shackled City didn't have corresponding Dragon articles. That only started with Age of Worms. Also it was only eleven issues.
Ah, I see. My mistake.
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Actually, Shackled City didn't have corresponding Dragon articles. That only started with Age of Worms. Also it was only eleven issues.
It was updated to 3.5, given an added adventure, and fine-tuned.
I could maybe see hadrcovers for PFAP if they were updated to the new ruleset, but that would effectively be an admission that backward compatibility was damaged.
-Skeld
Maybe subscribers who subscribed to the "sold out" AP's full original publication could get the PDF of the collection at a reduced price?
That wouldn't help me, of course. I no longer believe in buying RPG stuff sight unseen; I need to read some positive reviews first. So I'm restricted to buying all of the books after the fact for full price (from Paizo or Amazon.ca or wherever). Presumably the market segment that contains folks like me isn't as big as Paizo's subscriber base, though.
There was another suggestion a while back to get AP sleeves - decorated firm cases to put all 6 volumes of an AP in. Hmm.. maybe sold with an AP specific DM screen?... ooo
Director of Brand Strategy
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As much as I'd love to see compiled adventures, I fear that too many people would unsubscribe and know that their patience would result in a nicer and more convenient product 4-5 years down the line. Since APs can take several years to complete (depending on scheduling and pace) waiting a few for a hardcover book while working on a previously released AP isn't too far out of the question for most groups. I completely understand Paizo's decision not to do republish anything, though a PFRPG update of the first 4 APs as a clearly stated one-time conversion would be awesome.
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There was another suggestion a while back to get AP sleeves - decorated firm cases to put all 6 volumes of an AP in. Hmm.. maybe sold with an AP specific DM screen?... ooo
if those DM screens came with stat blocks for the "mobs" that would be great! a slipcover would be nice as well! Even if it was one we had to assemble ourselves on arrival, actually that would be a cool freebie for subscribers as well!
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I've got an even better idea! Paizo could give each subscriber a copy of the hardcover for free when they bundle it!!!
Okay, maybe not...
But what about a free pdf? That'd be cool and be a nice way of incentivizing the subscribers.
Alternatively, I would be amenable to a significant discount on a hardcover if I already own the APs. And, such AP should be, at the earliest, 1 year after its respective run in Pathfinder.
That would mitigate some of my concerns regarding a hardcover, but I speak only for myself and the frog in my pocket.
And, such AP should be, at the earliest, 1 year after its respective run in Pathfinder.
I would advocate at least 2-3 years, minimum.
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Creative Director
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But the thing about Shackled city is that it brought together 12 issues of Dragon and 12 Issues of Dungeon...making far superior. But, the Pathfinder APs are compact in 6 issues...not 12 and 12.Actually, Shackled City didn't have corresponding Dragon articles. That only started with Age of Worms. Also it was only eleven issues.
Correct. Shackled City needed this republishing particularly because it was the first AP we tried, and we learned a lot in doing it that immediately applied to Age of Worms.
In compiling Shackled City, we had Chris Perkins write us an additional 20,000 words or so to add a new adventure to shore up an XP gap. I also wrote about 30,000 to 40,000 additional words for the book as well (rounding out Cauldron, expanding "Lords of Oblivion" extensively, and expanding pretty much every other adventure by a page or three as needed).
Were we to do the same to Age of Worms or Savage Tide, the expansions would be much less extensive; we had support articles in Dragon and were MUCH better at building the adventures themselves. Yet still, they were printed in relatively flimsy magazine format, and they could never be reprinted, and we were limited in our capability to provide PDFs.
For Pathfinder... we're no longer printing as magazines. Pathfinder is built as a book, and as such it's not only a LOT more sturdy, but it's also something we can reprint if we need to. On top of that, I like to think that we've pretty much nailed down the basic format of an AP, and we're now on to fine tuning stuff. And we can be VERY aggressive on the PDF versions of these things. All of which means that republishing a Pathfinder AP as a hardcover book isn't as "necessary" as it was for Shackled City.
As of right now, we have no official plans to reprint any Pathfinder APs. We've certainly talked about it a lot, and have lots of ideas and theories on how and when to do something like this, but the time is not right for such a product this year.
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Creative Director
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There was another suggestion a while back to get AP sleeves - decorated firm cases to put all 6 volumes of an AP in. Hmm.. maybe sold with an AP specific DM screen?... ooo
We can't currently make the numbers work for slip cases, alas; there's no way for us to do this without losing money, unless we're VASTLY underestimating how much folk would like to pay for slipcase covers.
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Creative Director
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As much as I'd love to see compiled adventures, I fear that too many people would unsubscribe and know that their patience would result in a nicer and more convenient product 4-5 years down the line.
Since we can't afford to print an entire 6-part AP all at once... that "patience" would most likely not result in a "nicer and more convenient product" 4-5 years down the line. It'd more likely result in Paizo having to drop its publishing line since we wouldn't have the cash flow and regular income to keep it rolling without enduring months of loss at a time. I don't really want that.
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We can't currently make the numbers work for slip cases, alas; there's no way for us to do this without losing money, unless we're VASTLY underestimating how much folk would like to pay for slipcase covers.
I'd pay $9.99 (before my Pathfinder Advantage) for one. I'd want it included in the subscriptions though, and for them to come out rather early in the AP. It's already a bit annoying not getting the map folios until after the APs end. I wish you guys could just get half an AP ahead of schedule or something so you could do stuff like that (I know you are having trouble just staying on-schedule as is and don't fault you for it, but just wishful thinking)
edit: quoted wrong post
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Since we can't afford to print an entire 6-part AP all at once... that "patience" would most likely not result in a "nicer and more convenient product" 4-5 years down the line. It'd more likely result in Paizo having to drop its publishing line since we wouldn't have the cash flow and regular income to keep it rolling without enduring months of loss at a time. I don't really want that.
Maybe I wasn't clear, but what you say is understood. I just meant that potential subscribers might justify dropping their monthly purchases, counting on the single hardcover a few years later. Obviously, if too many people did this it would be terrible for Paizo and then no one would get their books, hardcover or otherwise. That's why I say it'd be cool to have hardcovers, but I don't really support the idea because I know the ultimate cost.
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Creative Director
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I'd pay $9.99 (before my Pathfinder Advantage) for one. I'd want it included in the subscriptions though, and for them to come out rather early in the AP. It's already a bit annoying not getting the map folios until after the APs end. I wish you guys could just get half an AP ahead of schedule or something so you could do stuff like that (I know you are having trouble just staying on-schedule as is and don't fault you for it, but just wishful thinking)
Trust me, I wish we could get ahead of schedule like that too, but realities of how payments to authors and artists have to go out, office resources, and other myriad complications will likely prevent such an event from ever happening.
And although I don't remember what the price point we'd estimated for those slip cases was, but I do remember it was pretty significantly higher than ten bucks. It was stupid expensive, not only to produce, but to ship without it being crushed or costing lots.
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I really do not believe that anyone would un-subscribe because of this. Maybe a small percentage, 1-2, but that's it. I mean think about it. This wasn't even a suggestion until after the AP's been completed for a while, maybe 6 months. You're trying to tell me that there would be a mass amount of un-subscriptions because they'd get the whole thing 6 months - a year LATER?
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd sure as hell keep my subscription AND buy the later compiled edition. I love the Pathfinders and enjoy having the option to run them when I get them. Sure, I suppose a few people could wait a year for the finished edition, I just doubt there would be too many of those.
You could just look at the Beta if you really want evidence. How many people actually bought the Beta? That book will be outdated this August. I know *I* still bought one, as did half of my group. And it's even available online for FREE.
Having the APs compiled half a year - a year after their release would, imo, not hurt sales at all. And for the few canceled subscriptions that DID happen, I'm almost certain that money would be made up with all the people that would buy both the subscription and the compilation. Especially if they offered a discount on the latter for maintaining said subscription.
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Chief Technical Officer
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The number one problem with collected APs is that our cash flow relies on constant sales of the current AP volume, and anything that we do that potentially reduces sales of the current volume is harmful to us. Not only would collecting them train some people to wait for the compilations, but it would also be creating a product that competes with the current AP for the attention of new customers. Either one of those is bad enough; taken together, the whole issue becomes a non-starter.
The second problem is that Pathfinder APs are already focused entities. Where the Shackled City compilation condensed portions of 11 magazines, and updated and expanded them into one handy volume, Rise of the Runelords doesn't really need significant additions or deletions—it's already a complete work. Sure, we could do things to add value to a collection, but that does two bad things: first, it penalizes people who bought the single volumes, and second, it means we'd be spending time and money on prettying up something that a lot of our audience already has, instead of spending that time and money making something new.
Third, unless we trim something out, Pathfinder APs are 600 pages long. We're talking a book that would would cost a lot closer to $100 than it would to $50, and one that would weigh about 5 pounds. Retailers would not buy copies that they weren't sure they could sell—and retailers who have any stock of the original AP volumes wouldn't want to cannibalize *those* sales—so I don't think it would do very well in distribution. Meanwhile, our direct sales would be harmed by the fact that it's impossible to ship anything over 4 pounds internationally for any reasonable cost. Customers outside of North America who ordered a copy would have to pay more than $40 in shipping fees alone.
The bottom line is that are a lot of mines in that minefield; right now, we think it's better to just avoid the area.
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Third, unless we trim something out, Pathfinder APs are 600 pages long.
Again, I don't know about everyone else, but I'd be interested in books of the following:
A compiled Adventure Path, consisting of only the main adventure portion of each Pathfinder, any Set Pieces, and the bestiary. With updates/corrections of course. (6 issues per compilation)
A compiled World View Addendum to the above, with all the cities, regions, that sort of thing. I could see it being included in the above, but also being a seperate thing. (6 issues per, again).
The Pathfinder stories from our favorite Pathfinder agent could go in their own book as far as I'm concerned, and since it took 18 issues to even wrap up HIS story, I doubt they'd hurt sales much. People would really want to wait a year and a half for that to finish plus however long it took to put the book out (~18 issues per).
Sure, if you have the compiled AP come out right after the 6 Pathfinders are done, you'd lose sales. I don't think that's what was suggested. Have a compilation come out down the line, maybe a year after it finishes, with corrections, maybe an extra article or two, some of the fat trimmed. That sort of thing.
I can't see that many people forgoing their subscriptions to wait for it. I *can* see people buying it. It's why we buy the Beta, it's why people buy a gaming console when it first comes out before the fixes, it's why we buy a LOT of things that have re-releases later on.
People pay a lot for speed. Patient people aren't what fuel sales.
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Chief Technical Officer
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And although I don't remember what the price point we'd estimated for those slip cases was, but I do remember it was pretty significantly higher than ten bucks. It was stupid expensive, not only to produce, but to ship without it being crushed or costing lots.
Yep—we do occasionally revisit slipcases, but we've never found a way to manufacture them inexpensively enough. Also, the rigid pre-assembled kind take up an incredible amount of warehouse space, while the kind that you have to fold yourself is generally flimsy and easy to damage in shipping.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I can't see that many people forgoing their subscriptions to wait for it.
I can. Once we published the hardcover Shackled City, we heard from a *lot* of people who were interested in Age of Worms or Savage Tide but didn't subscribe because they thought there would be a hardcover coming. And when we first announced Pathfinder, we heard from a lot of people who wanted to know if we'd be collecting the APs so they could avoid subscribing. I believe that announcing a plan to do regular compilations would cause an immediate and significant drop in existing subscriptions, as well as a measurable slowdown in gaining new subscribers.
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How soon did the Shackled City hardcover come out after the AP finished? I wasn't as big into the APs then so I wouldn't know. I could see more people dropping if it came out very soon after, but if it was a year later type of thing...I don't know.
It's just hard for me to believe that there would be such a huge loss of subscriptions when there were, from what I understand, a LOT of sales for the Beta. So many that there was a huge call for a reprint, even halfway through. And this was a product that everyone KNEW would be outdated in a year, AND was free online.
I know I don't have all the information like you Vic, I just want my Pathfinders and a compilation. You can make one just for me right? I promise I won't unsubscribe. :)
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Chief Technical Officer
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How soon did the Shackled City hardcover come out after the AP finished? I wasn't as big into the APs then so I wouldn't know. I could see more people dropping if it came out very soon after, but if it was a year later type of thing...I don't know.
It came out about 10 months after the last issue. Though it's a bit of apples and oranges here, since magazines go "off sale" a month after they go on, while Pathfinder volumes are open stock items until we physically sell out.
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Chief Technical Officer
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It's just hard for me to believe that there would be such a huge loss of subscriptions...
It wasn't that a bunch of subscribers cancelled immediately after we published the hardcover... it was that, for the next few years, as people worked out that there would be no collected Age of Worms, we kept hearing "I was waiting for the hardcover; if I'd known there wasn't going to be one, I'd have subscribed."
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It wasn't that a bunch of subscribers cancelled immediately after we published the hardcover... it was that, for the next few years, as people worked out that there would be no collected Age of Worms, we kept hearing "I was waiting for the hardcover; if I'd known there wasn't going to be one, I'd have subscribed."
Again, I can't speak for anyone else. I just know that, personally, I like getting my Pathfinders asap. I enjoy being able to read them, and possibly run them the next day if need be. If a hardcover was offered with just the AP and bestiary itself in it, I'd still get it, especially if it had corrections/errata and such.
It's the same story I think with people who will buy each DVD movie in a series and then still get the collector's edition later on. The kind of person that doesn't buy the individual movies when they come out and just waits for the collected set, to me, doesn't seem like the kind of person that would subscribe anyways. They'd wait till they were all published and then, after confirming there was no collection, buy them in one chunk if at all.
In short, I think the people that have subscriptions now have them for a similar reason to my own. They want the Pathfinders and they want them now. The discount can't possibly be the main incentive. Those people that would wait for a collection are likely non-subscribers, and just wait for the whole set of a Pathfinder AP to come out before deciding if they want it or not. Offering up a collection would change relatively little and I think would only be extra income for Paizo.
I'm only theorizing here, of course.
I fell right into the category that Vic refers to. I got all the SCAP Dungeon issues (heck, it made me subscribe). However, shortly after that I stopped subscribing as I was already running a Freeport campaign. Once that campaign ended I planned on running the SCAP campaign and I figured that would take a couple of years to get through. Between that and the other Dungeon adventures I already owned I had more than enough adventures to keep me going.
By the time we had finished the SCAP I thought the AoW hardcover would probably be out anyway so I would just buy that instead. When I discovered that the AoW hardcover was unlikely I went back and bought all the back issues so that I still had a copy of the AP.
I don't think that I was alone in what happened. The fact is that AP's take quite a long time to complete. My SCAP campaign is 20 session old and we've only completed the first 3 adventures. If we continue that sort of rate it will take us 80 session to complete. Even if it only takes 60 sessions, that's still a long time. In that time another 2 AP's would have come out.
As much as I would like to see hardcover compilations of the AP's I definitely think not making them makes really good business sense. I would rather see Paizo continuing to make adventures than risk cannibalising their sales by releasing hardcovers of already released AP's.
Olaf the Stout
It wasn't that a bunch of subscribers cancelled immediately after we published the hardcover... it was that, for the next few years, as people worked out that there would be no collected Age of Worms, we kept hearing "I was waiting for the hardcover; if I'd known there wasn't going to be one, I'd have subscribed."Again, I can't speak for anyone else. I just know that, personally, I like getting my Pathfinders asap. I enjoy being able to read them, and possibly run them the next day if need be. If a hardcover was offered with just the AP and bestiary itself in it, I'd still get it, especially if it had corrections/errata and such.
It's the same story I think with people who will buy each DVD movie in a series and then still get the collector's edition later on. The kind of person that doesn't buy the individual movies when they come out and just waits for the collected set, to me, doesn't seem like the kind of person that would subscribe anyways. They'd wait till they were all published and then, after confirming there was no collection, buy them in one chunk if at all.
In short, I think the people that have subscriptions now have them for a similar reason to my own. They want the Pathfinders and they want them now. The discount can't possibly be the main incentive. Those people that would wait for a collection are likely non-subscribers, and just wait for the whole set of a Pathfinder AP to come out before deciding if they want it or not. Offering up a collection would change relatively little and I think would only be extra income for Paizo.
I'm only theorizing here, of course.
I have to disagree with you Karui. While I think there are people that would buy both the individual adventures and the hardcover, I don't think that most people would.
I think most people would just choose one product or the other. So Paizo would just end up spending time and money producing 2 products that would have combined sales of little more than the sales of just one product.
Olaf the Stout
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Do you subscribe to the Pathfinder issues? I don't see a title, so I can only assume you do not. Would you be interested in a compilation if it came out, assuming you are not a subscriber?
It just seems that the people who are going to subscribe will subscribe no matter what. If someone is going to wait for a compilation, I doubt they'd subscribe if one didn't exist. They'd wait for the whole thing to be finished, look at the AP as a whole, and decide if they want it or not.
In your case, did you end up buying all the Dungeons with Age of Worms in them after it was done, knowing there was not going to be a hardback? Would you have subscribed if you had known?
I imagine there are a few who will subscribe if there isn't a hardback, or unsubscribe if there is...I could very easily be totally wrong overall, of course.
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I have to disagree with you Karui. While I think there are people that would buy both the individual adventures and the hardcover, I don't think that most people would.I think most people would just choose one product or the other. So Paizo would just end up spending time and money producing 2 products that would have combined sales of little more than the...
I actually agree with this. My point was that I don't think the amount of subscribers will change significantly.
I think we have:
A. The type of person that is interested in getting their Pathfinder now, getting it asap, the subscriber.
B. The type of person that is interested in Pathfinder, but doesn't really care about getting the individual AP until they've seen what it looks like completed.
C. The type of person that will subscribe if there is no hardback, but will wait and buy the hardback if given the choice.
It seems like right now, we have A and C as subscribers. If Paizo decided to make a hardback, they'd lose C as subscribers, I just don't think C is that large of a majority. But then they'd also get those few from A who want both things buying the Hardback, along with the B people buying it, since they're waiting for the whole thing anyways. B people were never subscribers to begin with. And the C people will buy the hardbacks instead of the subscriptions so...
I don't have a degree in Economics or anything fancy, but it just seems like Paizo could stand to make more money this way. It'd certainly be a risk the first time, but it's not like this type of thing hasn't been done plenty of times before. Hell, a lot of people with Wizards knew about the inevitability of the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium, and still bought the books before them anyways. We want our product now, and we're willing to pay for it. It's why we subscribe.
lol
I use that for my PBP aliases. Otherwise half my account screen would be filled by the alias list.
SHENAG- aww... Too late.
Accursed simple answers. DAMN YOU OCCAM'S RAZOR!
I'm all for the regular issues, subscribing doesn't work out for me financially because I'm from Ireland (they're more affordable in bundles of three for me) and have erratic cash flow, but if I ever cross the sea I'm totally adding the subsriber tag to my name.
Do you subscribe to the Pathfinder issues? I don't see a title, so I can only assume you do not. Would you be interested in a compilation if it came out, assuming you are not a subscriber?
It just seems that the people who are going to subscribe will subscribe no matter what. If someone is going to wait for a compilation, I doubt they'd subscribe if one didn't exist. They'd wait for the whole thing to be finished, look at the AP as a whole, and decide if they want it or not.
In your case, did you end up buying all the Dungeons with Age of Worms in them after it was done, knowing there was not going to be a hardback? Would you have subscribed if you had known?
I imagine there are a few who will subscribe if there isn't a hardback, or unsubscribe if there is...I could very easily be totally wrong overall, of course.
I subscribed to the RotRL AP. After that I ended my subscription. That was for a number of reasons. They included: the cost of the AP's (plus international shipping and exchange rates), 4E coming out and possibly moving over to that system and the fact I had 3 other AP's and a heap of other adventures on hand. I have not bought any Pathfinder AP's since I ended my subscription.
In my case, yes I did end up buying all of the Dungeon issues with the AoW AP adventures in them once I found out there wasn't going to be a compilation. I also bought all the ST AP adventures. I now have all issues of Dungeon from 90-150. If the AoW and ST AP's were made in to hardcovers I don't know if I would have bought the back issues.
If I knew that there wasn't going to be hardcovers I may have subscribed. I'm not 100% sure that I would have though since my finances got tight at that time and I had plenty of other adventures on hand to run.
Olaf the Stout
Do you subscribe to the Pathfinder issues? I don't see a title, so I can only assume you do not. Would you be interested in a compilation if it came out, assuming you are not a subscriber?
It just seems that the people who are going to subscribe will subscribe no matter what. If someone is going to wait for a compilation, I doubt they'd subscribe if one didn't exist. They'd wait for the whole thing to be finished, look at the AP as a whole, and decide if they want it or not.
In your case, did you end up buying all the Dungeons with Age of Worms in them after it was done, knowing there was not going to be a hardback? Would you have subscribed if you had known?
I imagine there are a few who will subscribe if there isn't a hardback, or unsubscribe if there is...I could very easily be totally wrong overall, of course.
I do subscribe to Pathfinder. I would be interested in a compilation if it came out, but only if I didn't already own the material. If there were plans for compilations, I would not subscribe, on the basis that I can get the material later (with errata!). I subscribe because that means I get the material and I get it at a discount.
People who subscribe are not all the same, and it seems to ME that you're pigeonholing all subscribers into your viewpoint. From my viewpoint, I HATE multiple versions of the same product. I hate that every DVD I buy is labeled Super Special Ultra Collectors Edition. I hate that DVDs come in single-disc and Special 2-disc editions. Make one two-disc edition, sell it at a price-point half-way between the current one-disc and two-disc versions, and call it a day. Put out one version, do it well, and sell it. The same thing goes for my purchases of roleplaying materials. Put out a version, do it well, and sell it. I don't want to buy it twice. I will make an effort to buy it as soon as possible if it is limited though. By virtue of Paizo's comparatively low print runs, every Pathfinder book is a collector's item. Putting out a compiled book later devalues the originals and alienates customers who have already paid for them.
For my money, I would rather see AP-specific DM screens, map sets where I can buy 1 inch-scale renderings of the encounter maps in the APs, or even a full-sized pamphlet of the errata for an AP sold for a couple bucks. Right now I'm just trying to get around to buying enough item cards to actually start using them.
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I do subscribe to Pathfinder. I would be interested in a compilation if it came out, but only if I didn't already own the material. If there were plans for compilations, I would not subscribe, on the basis that I can get the material later (with errata!). I subscribe because that means I get the material and I get it at a discount.People who subscribe are not all the same, and it seems to ME that you're pigeonholing all subscribers into your viewpoint. From my viewpoint, I HATE multiple versions of the same product. I hate that every DVD I buy is labeled Super Special Ultra Collectors Edition. I hate that DVDs come in single-disc and Special 2-disc editions. Make one two-disc edition, sell it at a price-point half-way between the current one-disc and two-disc versions, and call it a day. Put out one version, do it well, and sell it. The same thing goes for my purchases of roleplaying materials. Put out a version, do it well, and sell it. I don't want to buy it twice. I will make an effort to buy it as soon as possible if it is limited though. By virtue of Paizo's comparatively low print runs, every Pathfinder book is a collector's item....
Just to make sure you know, that post of mine was directed to the post above it in particular, and not a general statement.
However, I don't disagree with the rest of your post. If you note my wording about the A-C types of people, you would very well fall into the A category. You will try to buy it 'as soon as possible', which explains why you're a subscriber. I only said that there would be a *few* people from A that would also buy the collection, not everyone.
To summarize:
A - Subscribers - They subscribe. A collection isn't likely to change that.
B - Waiters - They wait till an AP is done. Maybe they buy it all at once then, maybe they don't.
C - Other - Subscribers only because of a lack of collection.
If a collection was put out:
A - Would keep going. They generally subscribe because, like you, they want the product as soon as they can get it. A few might still get the collection, but most would probably just stick to the subscription.
B - Would keep doing the same thing. Instead of waiting and possibly buying the whole AP in bulk, they'd wait and possibly buy the whole AP as a collection.
C - Would stop subscribing and buy the collection.
This is, again, just a theory. I don't have access to Paizo's marketing research or anything, I have no way of really knowing if it's right or not.
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We can't currently make the numbers work for slip cases, alas; there's no way for us to do this without losing money, unless we're VASTLY underestimating how much folk would like to pay for slipcase covers.
How about throwing a general figure at us and see whether people would buy it - like you did with the T-shirts. (Of course, I don't know whether the T-shirts were a bang or a bust.)
Also - what about a generic "Pathfinder" slipcase as opposed to one for each AP?
I do subscribe to Pathfinder. I would be interested in a compilation if it came out, but only if I didn't already own the material. If there were plans for compilations, I would not subscribe, on the basis that I can get the material later (with errata!). I subscribe because that means I get the material and I get it at a discount.
Me also. If I could be assured of getting a compilation at the end of an AP run, I would unsubscribe to the AP and just go with the compilation, and purchase the .pdf separately, or maybe just the .pdf since that is what I use at the game table.
-- david
Papa.DRB
I'm not really responding to anyone in particular, but want to say something on this topic. I'm a recent discoverer of Paizo - I stumbled onto the shackled city hardcover, thought it was fantastic and then made my way here. I've loved what I've seen so far - I'm now a subscriber to the APs, chronicles and companions and am halfway through buying up all the gamemastery modules (once I've got the full set, I'm sure I'll subscribe to these too)
Part of my reason for subscribing to everything in sight is an understanding of business and cash-flow. How can they be expected to pay for all the artwork, adventure design, office management, etcetera if a significant number (even if it's a minority) of their customers arent going to pay until they've got half a dozen adventure paths completed with all bugs ironed out and a completely updated set of errata?
I think there is a flipside to this customer loyalty. I will feel let down if they turn around in a few years time and decide to produce a hardcover compilation of the runelords, Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, Etcetera.. with complete errata and so on. I'd rather they put their resources into producing new stuff I havent seen before, rather than squeezing every last ounce of market share they can get out of the previous APs.
Me being who I am - I doubt I would unsubscribe from the APs if these compilations started appearing. Nonetheless, I wouldnt be so confident about maintaining the other subscriptions which are more hit-and-miss, in my view - I dont really want everything in the chronicles badly enough to pay for all of them - I'm an over-the-top subscriber because I value the quality that Paizo produce and want to support them so they can keep making me happy. :)
A bit of waffle. Suffice to say, it's a vote for Paizo reprinting past product rather than reworking it.
We can't currently make the numbers work for slip cases, alas; there's no way for us to do this without losing money, unless we're VASTLY underestimating how much folk would like to pay for slipcase covers.How about throwing a general figure at us and see whether people would buy it - like you did with the T-shirts. (Of course, I don't know whether the T-shirts were a bang or a bust.)
Also - what about a generic "Pathfinder" slipcase as opposed to one for each AP?
Or perhaps a generic pathfinder slipcase, but with a clear pocket like many binders have? that way Its ONE product you can sell, and perhaps a graphic or a single art page to slip into the pocket?
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Chief Technical Officer
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This thread is kind of ironic, considering the store blog we posted today....
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Or perhaps a generic pathfinder slipcase, but with a clear pocket like many binders have? that way Its ONE product you can sell, and perhaps a graphic or a single art page to slip into the pocket?
This!
Something like this for all APs, and then a specific cover could be sold (even as a PDF to be printed) and inserted in a window on the spine.
Well, now that that's settled, when can I preorder five?