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Longbows are superior in range and damage. Why would someone take a shortbow? Here's what I can think of:
1) Longbows cost more (but not that much more)
2) Some classes only have access to shortbows
3) You can shoot a shortbow from horseback
Is that it? Still seems like most folks are going to go with longbows if they can.
What am I forgetting?
And if that really is pretty much it, what about nerfing longbows a little at short range? Ranged weapons have no penalties in the first range increment, then a cumulative -2 for each increment after that. What if longbows took a -2 in the first increment, 0 in the second, -2 in the third, and so on; basically, make them weaker at close range and better at longer ranges.
The long bow is... long.
Some characters don't want to be encumbred by a long bow in their back, like they don't want a long sword or a spear.
That would make for cumbersome game rules.
The shortbow has several reasons for existing.
#1) certain classes only get shortbows, like you mentioned
#2) certain races cant USE long bows:
this one has changed a bit however over time, used to be dwarves and halfling and gonomes couldnt use certain weapons because of their size, now they (they halfings and gnomes) just use weapons of their size by that name (ie a small long bow that does 1-6 damage instead of 1-8) and dwarves can use all medium weapons (they used to in 2nd ed rules not be able to use pole arms, longbows and two handed swrods because they were too small)
#3) shortbows are useable mounted (like you mentioned)
#4) longbows are largers, longer, more cumbersome:
Cant shoot a long bow kneeling or stopping in a dungeon with comfined spaces. Cant cock a long bow sideways to fire it like you could a short bow.
Basically a long bow has all the "space requirements" of a greatsword.
IF you are skulking through a goblin burrow you wont have room to use either weapon (or a great axe for that matter)
What reason would goblins or kobolds have for mining caves so that humans could walk through? They actually have every reason for doing the opposite.
Longbows, like greatswrods are simply not concealable either.
I also think dwarves should not be able to use longbows because of their hieght, but there are no game rules preventing it.
The long bow is... long.
Some characters don't want to be encumbred by a long bow in their back, like they don't want a long sword or a spear.
Unfortunately, there are no rules or stats to represent that. A long sword can at least dangle at your side. A spear can at least be used as a walking aid (like a staff). The longbow is just... cumbersome.
Something could be done about the drawing time, as drawing or stowing a longbow is a 1-round action as opposed to a move-equivalent action. A shortbow can be held in a holster or inside the quiver. A longbow? Strapped across the chest... over the backpack... and the potentially sharp-edge armour... without inducing any penalties... give me a break!
Yet I understand the fact that the game is not reality, and we need to compromise many things.
If somebody wants to be really mean, make the composite longbow an elven weapon and an exotic weapon for everybody else.
'findel
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#4) longbows are largers, longer, more cumbersome:
Cant shoot a long bow kneeling or stopping in a dungeon with comfined spaces. Cant c@*# a long bow sideways to fire it like you could a short bow. Basically a long bow has all the "space requirements" of a greatsword.
IF you are skulking through a goblin burrow you wont have room to use either weapon (or a great axe for that matter)...
Longbows, like greatswrods are simply not concealable either.
But there are no rules for this, right?
You don't need rules for everything.
Common sense is enough.
(note that i didn't say realism, i said common sense)
YouTube (Short Clip)
People can and have used longbows when mounted. We have to be careful when making these kinds of claims in D&D and be clear that its about game balance and not the real world. Sometimes people think D&D rules represent reality a little too much.
You don't need rules for everything.
Common sense is enough.
(note that i didn't say realism, i said common sense)
That, unfortunately, is rarer that you think.
There are some cases where you just can't know unless you experienced it by yourself, or at least, gain a few years worth of wisdom.
Longbows are superior in range and damage. Why would someone take a shortbow? Here's what I can think of:
1) Longbows cost more (but not that much more)
2) Some classes only have access to shortbows
3) You can shoot a shortbow from horseback
3a) You can shoot a composite longbow from horseback, too.
Out of those, #1 is the biggest reason I'd use a shortbow; various classes can't afford a longbow at level 1 (like elven mages or monks).
People can and have used longbows when mounted. We have to be careful when making these kinds of claims in D&D and be clear that its about game balance and not the real world. Sometimes people think D&D rules represent reality a little too much.
Longbows are not and never have been nor could they ever be used from horseback. That is simply false.
The orginal horsebowmen, the mongols used shortbows.
The samurai developed a specialized longbow that could be used kneeling or mounted called the daiyuku (or great bow). Im still not sure by looking at it how it actually worked, but where you notch the arrow is much lower than the center of the bow to keep the lower part of the bow from hitting the horse or the ground. The recruves are situaed differntly as well.
The length and size of the long bow do not allow it to be fired from horseback or kneeling.
This has never been done anywhere in history and if you were to take a traditional english long bow today and try and use it that way, you would see.
Modern bows are in fact shortbows, hunting bows are all modern version of the composite shortbow, with pulley mechanisms thay have become superior to a long bow with technology and there is no modern reason for a bow that long or large anymore.
My father had an old recurved hunting bow (no pulleys) it was much longer than a more modernday bow. IT simply could not be fired kneeling, and I would daresay, still wasnt thesize of the traditional longbow.
Yes the composite bow is more suitable. But the English definitely used the longbow from horseback. It was merely a matter of being able to afford being mounted and being unable to afford equipping yourself as a fully armed knight. You cant just handwave it away by pointing at the composite bow. They're from England after all where it was too damp for that sort of temperamental equipment.
The samurai developed a specialized longbow that could be used kneeling or mounted called the daiyuku (or great bow). Im still not sure by looking at it how it actually worked, but where you notch the arrow is much lower than the center of the bow to keep the lower part of the bow from hitting the horse or the ground. The recruves are situaed differntly as well.
I believe that the Daikyu is loaded and fired like so. Granted, that video's anime, but I see no reason for them to lie about something that non-integral to the plot...
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Hmm... making two-handed weapons in general take longer to sheathe/draw sounds like a real "game fixer" to me regardless. Full round action if no +1 BAB, move action (can't be done while moving as a free action) if you do have +1 BAB.
I think I'll give this a try. Might help differentiate things and give people a reason to choose something besides longbow or greatsword/greataxe (currently universal favorites among my groups)
Yes the composite bow is more suitable. But the English definitely used the longbow from horseback. It was merely a matter of being able to afford being mounted and being unable to afford equipping yourself as a fully armed knight. You cant just handwave it away by pointing at the composite bow. They're from England after all where it was too damp for that sort of temperamental equipment.
Im not hand waving anything by pointing at a composite bow.
There is no point in real life history the english ever employed a longbow from horseback for a simple reason. It's impossible. It cant be done,it was never done.Not only is there no documented case of this ever happening, if you were to take a real english longbow today, it cannot be done.
Sure, you may be able to stop the horse, angle to the right or left and point up to get range and you could get an arrow off, but then there would be no point in staying mounted, you would simply ride the horse to where you wanted to be, unmount and employ the bow.
Soldiers who did this were referred to as hobilars.
As opposed to cavalry who were trained to fight from horseback using horses in battle or the knight who could fight from horse back with any weapon (not just lances or lucern hammers)
The Hobilar roade TO battle but not IN battle.
So theorietically you could have had hobilar archers, but they could not fire from horseback.
What made the mongol horsearchers (and later saracen horse archers in the crusades) so dangerous and effective is that they used specialized
Shortbows fired from moving horses. The bows were made specifically for use from horseback.
IF they could have used more powerful bows that were larger and still ride their horses, they would have. They didnt because it's impossible.
American indians fired bows from horseback, but that is not a "longbow" nor did it have the size or capabilities of one.
Ive never seen the diayuku used, only pictures (art) in still life showing they had them.
The samurai developed a specialized longbow that could be used kneeling or mounted called the daiyuku (or great bow). Im still not sure by looking at it how it actually worked, but where you notch the arrow is much lower than the center of the bow to keep the lower part of the bow from hitting the horse or the ground. The recruves are situaed differntly as well.I believe that the Daikyu is loaded and fired like so. Granted, that video's anime, but I see no reason for them to lie about something that non-integral to the plot...
Yea that looks like some of the funny diagrams ive seen with the samurai holding it. (dont those old oil painting look silly?)
I wonder how it was done from kneeling? or horse back?
I've seen a daikyu fired from a kneeling position on the history channel, but that's it.
Hmm... making two-handed weapons in general take longer to sheathe/draw sounds like a real "game fixer" to me regardless. Full round action if no +1 BAB, move action (can't be done while moving as a free action) if you do have +1 BAB.
I think I'll give this a try. Might help differentiate things and give people a reason to choose something besides longbow or greatsword/greataxe (currently universal favorites among my groups)
Legolas the elf from LOTR employs what is essentially in fantasy roleplaying, a longbow. But it is vastly smaller than a real world english longbow. But for arguements sake, I think all of us who role-play accept legolas' bow as what we think of when we think "longbow"
Legolas uses that bow like it's attached to his wrist, he climbs an oliphant with it in his hand (but then again he slides down the dying and moving oliphants trunk as well) he sheaths and unsheaths his fighting knives and bow like it doesnt take any effort at all.
I think this is how most people play and think about a fantasy elf bowman,although in tolkien reality, legolas is older and more expereinced than any PFRPG elf could be (our elves would have died from old age if they were born at the same time legolas was, before the war of the rings even occured) so it is safe to assume that legolas is #1 a super elf, an vastly expereinced and #2 an immortal icon of tolkien mythos.
Lets face it, the tolkien fellowship was comprised of earths mightest heros to protect a 1st level commoner halfling.
This would be the equivalent of at least 12th level characters, or the comic book eqivalent would be marvel comics avengers.
I think it would be safe to say, that you annoy your first level players with complications such as using the longbow on horseback, and putting away/ retireving the longbow (which would certainly take much longer than drawing a sword) and when they become more accomplished (say 7th level) just drop it an assume these expereinced aventurers can do things like shoot longbows from horseback (or just say that if they have the feat mounted archery, then they can shoot the longbow for horseback, but otherwise they need to use a shortbow.)
At this point you are still handwaving. You even say it "cant be done is impossible".. and yet ive already posted a vid of a man doing just that, with an authentic english longbow, while galloping through a stream.
As for there being no historical evidence of it, 15 seconds searching googlebooks or 15 minutes at your local library will rock your world.
Creative Director
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The main reasons are cost and proficiency. At 1st level, there are certain items that are more common simply because they're cheaper; shortbows and hide armor are both great examples of gear starting characters might choose just to save an extra 10 gp so they can afford one more whatever. And other classes, like rogues, can only use shortbows, and might just grab one up as a ranged weapon even though they intend to do most of their fights in melee.
Also; some folk make choices strictly on the flavor of a weapon. And also: it's good at times to give out shortbows instead of longbows to NPCs for various reasons.
Not every item in the equipment list needs to be maximized for the best; there is vaule to including a range of qualities.
It might be worth putting an additional -2 for shots taken with a long bow in a confined place or on horseback.
Better they might be, but they are unsuited to horse archery and use anywhere that you cant stand up straight and pull a full yard of draw.
It might be worth putting an additional -2 for shots taken with a long bow in a confined place or on horseback.
Better they might be, but they are unsuited to horse archery and use anywhere that you cant stand up straight and pull a full yard of draw.
And don't forget a -2 for being fired from Dwarves!!!!
Or a neg2 with HalfOrcs..."which end go forward"
Or because it is monday!!!
It might be worth putting an additional -2 for shots taken with a long bow in a confined place or on horseback.
Better they might be, but they are unsuited to horse archery and use anywhere that you cant stand up straight and pull a full yard of draw.
And don't forget a -2 for being fired from Dwarves!!!!
Or a neg2 with HalfOrcs..."which end go forward"
Or because it is monday!!!
I always forget the Monday penalty. Especially since I don't have a "Monday" in my CS, and we game on Saturdays IRL... It's such an arbitrary rule, and so easy to forget, can we just drop it?
I always forget the Monday penalty. Especially since I don't have a "Monday" in my CS, and we game on Saturdays IRL... It's such an arbitrary rule, and so easy to forget, can we just drop it?It might be worth putting an additional -2 for shots taken with a long bow in a confined place or on horseback.
Better they might be, but they are unsuited to horse archery and use anywhere that you cant stand up straight and pull a full yard of draw.
And don't forget a -2 for being fired from Dwarves!!!!
Or a neg2 with HalfOrcs..."which end go forward"
Or because it is monday!!!
Kinda like questioning Longbows vs Shortbows? SURE...let's drop it :)
Excerpt from wiki:
In ancient Japan, very distinctive long bamboo and wood laminated bows, known as yumi, became important to mounted samurai warfare. Modern Japanese archery (called kyūdō or kyujutsu) still uses this style of bow. Modern yumi can be made of fibreglass or carbon-fibre, as well as of the traditional wood/bamboo laminate. Yumi are recurved bows, and have the unusual characteristic of being off-center. That is, the lower arm of the bow is shorter than the upper arm; this is useful when the bow is used from horseback, so that the archer can turn without the bottom of the bow hitting the horse.
Curious, why would the japaneese developed a special longbow to be fired from the horse "so that the archer can turn without the bottom of the bow hitting the horse" if that wasnt a problem with a normal longbow?
I guess in your opinion, they just made something that was unnecessary?
Funny what only "15 seconds of searching google" can find you, probably the same information that a decade of study medieval warfare can teach you? Huh?
Also note, that everything on the internet is findable by google, an just because I post "All elves have are born with blue hair" doesn't make it true because it came up on your google search, anymore so that some guy trying to pull a stunt firing what he calls a longbow from the back of a horse.
Can it be done in certain cirumstances? Maybe. efficently in combat, under all circumstances? nope. never happened.
At this point you are still handwaving. You even say it "cant be done is impossible".. and yet ive already posted a vid of a man doing just that, with an authentic english longbow, while galloping through a stream.
As for there being no historical evidence of it, 15 seconds searching googlebooks or 15 minutes at your local library will rock your world.
I don't think you could call it entirely handwaving since the most notorious horse archers used a shorter composite bow than the English longbow or came up with other adaptations on the basic design to make it work better (the yumi as cited above).
While there may be historical evidence for some mounted longbow archery, there's a lot of historical evidence that it was in the vast minority of uses of the longbow in action.Those two factors suggest that there's something about using the longbow on horseback that encourages alternatives.
Plus, do we know just how authentic the presenter's longbow is? We'd be looking at about an 80lb draw, minimum, with evidence that many of the bows went significantly higher. Just how hard core is his simulation? Nor is it evident that the mounted archers would be working at the same higher end as the bowmen on foot, nor what we're really expecting the D&D longbow to represent.
When it comes to reality, there are plenty of exceptions to general rules. There always have been. When it comes to abstracting reality into a game, taking the step back and saying that the difference between long and short bows, as far as whether you can use one mounted in the game, reflects well the typical uses the weapons were put to in reality.
And if you want to extend the use of the longbow to mounted characters, let them use a feat to do it. That's what feats are for, after all, going above and beyond the things people can typically do while reflecting the specialized training someone might elect to do.
well put bill
google "books" not google search.
Aside from that, you still plain dodge the point that it not only is and plainly Was demonstrable that it could be done. It was.
If English longbowmen went about on horseback Only for transport then why did they make use of bows with a lighter pull when on horseback? At some point you have to do more than take an account word for word or you might come to the conclusion that "no cavalry battles took place before the invention of the stirrup and all battles where cavalry were mentioned were in fact dismounted to fight" This argument is tiresome and long disproved. Personally it shocks me to find it voiced again in the 21st century. Flawed arguments like these come and go all the time.
As for the Japanese bow it was hardly an innovation to use an asymmetrical bow. Such bows, Because of their advantages, had been made for thousands of years on the steppes already. The issue isn't that they are better, they are. The issue is in declaring that somehow the English just never did or couldn't possibly shoot from the mount, and yet all evidence aside from opinion not based in fact is that. They could and did. The use of the longbow en masse was a short period in history and quickly passed by in favor of the gun. Even at Crecy the English opened with cannon when the French knights began their charge.
And in that period longbowmen with the means to do so went about on horseback and if the situation called for it bloody well shot from the mount. The English preferred to fight from the defensive. But that doesn't preclude shooting from horseback does it? Again all evidence aside from opinion points to a definitive could and did.
EDIT:
Well since at this point we're Basically agreeing that they did, and could, and I agree that tactically it wasn't what they preferred to do.
I suggest we let it drop before we become THIS
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And if that really is pretty much it, what about nerfing longbows a little at short range? Ranged weapons have no penalties in the first range increment, then a cumulative -2 for each increment after that. What if longbows took a -2 in the first increment, 0 in the second, -2 in the third, and so on; basically, make them weaker at close range and better at longer ranges.
does every solution involves nerfing?
real life longbows where the meddle ages artillery... a shot a short range was pretty my deadly, even more... the streng of the bow imprinted int he arrow would do a lot of damage...
so just because you see the shortbow as neglected does the longbow deserves to be nerfed?
when as you mention short bow can be shot from saddle back, its cheaper, its easier to hide, is lighter and more classes can use it?
short bow is the weapon fo an adventurer in general
the longbow is a weapong for a warrior plain and simple...
and sorry this may sound like a tired and angry rant, its not... i just found interesting that many solutions for some people (including the OP), even if the thing is NOT broken, or specially if the thing is NOT broken, is to nerf something
can't the rules become better without crippling half the game?
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But there are no rules for this, right?#4) longbows are largers, longer, more cumbersome:
Cant shoot a long bow kneeling or stopping in a dungeon with comfined spaces. Cant c@*# a long bow sideways to fire it like you could a short bow. Basically a long bow has all the "space requirements" of a greatsword.
IF you are skulking through a goblin burrow you wont have room to use either weapon (or a great axe for that matter)...
Longbows, like greatswrods are simply not concealable either.
Not really. It is one of those things, like swinging a greatsword in a confined space, that isn't really addressed in the rules except by the DM's general ability to apply situational modifiers (or say "no").
Not really. It is one of those things, like swinging a greatsword in a confined space, that isn't really addressed in the rules except by the DM's general ability to apply situational modifiers (or say "no").But there are no rules for this, right?#4) longbows are largers, longer, more cumbersome:
Cant shoot a long bow kneeling or stopping in a dungeon with comfined spaces. Cant c@*# a long bow sideways to fire it like you could a short bow. Basically a long bow has all the "space requirements" of a greatsword.
IF you are skulking through a goblin burrow you wont have room to use either weapon (or a great axe for that matter)...
Longbows, like greatswrods are simply not concealable either.
In the original ADnD the PHB had weapon restrictions based on size (encumberances and space need to weild, specifically)
this was lost in later editions for streamlining along with bonuses to hit vs specific armor classes. Which honestly is good thing.
however if it states a greatsword is 6' long, and you are in a 8' diameter tunnel and trying to fight, can you swing the sword over your head? no, around to the side? no.
Obviously the space is confining, you should either swtich weapons or talk with the dm about how to use it at present and how it will limit you.
For a fighter to pick shortbow over longbow doesnt make sense.
Our party rogue took on a level of ranger and poof, there went the shortbow, out comes a longbow. Quick simple purchase.
Personally, I would like to see a minimum str requirement to weild certain weapons.
A character with a 10 str should be able to use a great axe or a long bow.
I think a minimum of 14 str for a long bow, 16 str for things like greatswords, great axes and great clubs.
that would also keep your run of the mill elf 1st level wizard from shooting a longbow, which I think has always been silly since 3.x
a Final note:
The longbow, especially in thsi game is the ultimate artillery peice of the player character adventuring group.
Not every "stick slinger" should be walking around with one.
When an archer walks into town with a longbow people should be "ooh, aah" not "oh"
A longbow (especially in the hands of an elf) draws attention, someone carrying a shortbow says "Im off to hunt for rabbits"
A shortbow is going to draw alotless attenion and can be hidden under a cloak without much trouble.
Hiding a longbow under a cloak is like trying to carry a hunting rifle concealed in a trench coat. Do-able? yes. Pratical, No.
A longbow man primarily uses that thing as his chosen weapon (like legolas in LOTR) he doesnt spend much time with it slung on his back as a secondary weapon or spend much time swtiching between it and other weapons (like sword and shield)
In real life being a longbow took a life time of training.
Crossbow, firearm a couple of weeks.
the awesomeness of the longbow is triffled a bit in this game as being given freely to elves and anyone who generally studied fighting (ie a martial weapon)
Its almost an exotic weapon unto itself.
In older versions of the game, all arrows did 1d6. Then in 3.x the longbow did 1-8. all of the sudden, why choose a shortbow?
Before that shortbows were quite common,because the extra range of the longbow was usually unnecessary it typical adventuring encounters.
And most players just thought of shortbows as being more compact, even though the rules have no specific statement on that.
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They could and did. The use of the longbow en masse was a short period in history and quickly passed by in favor of the gun. Even at Crecy the English opened with cannon when the French knights began their charge.
And in that period longbowmen with the means to do so went about on horseback and if the situation called for it bloody well shot from the mount. The English preferred to fight from the defensive. But that doesn't preclude shooting from horseback does it? Again all evidence aside from opinion points to a definitive could and did.
Of the major battles during the Hundred Years War, in which the longbow played a role, or had the potential to play a major role (i.e. Auberoche, Pointers, Crecy, Agincourt, Nájera, Patay, Formigny and Castillon), English longbowmen fought dismounted. The same can be said for the English at Falkirk, the second day at Bannockburn, and Otterburn.
BTW, despite the English use of cannon at Crecy, it is believed that artillery played it's first truly decisive role either at Formigny, by drawing the English army out of its defensive positions, or at Castillon.
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Pendagast i agree in almost every sense
while yes, it cehapens a bit the bow giving it tomartial classes and elves it present an option to fighting class, who anyway would usually go first melee and not do a lot of range combat
and giving it to the elves who how deep and entrenched the weapon is in the race itself... Elves of Golarion talks about elven archers as being legendary
fencer are nice for the elves, every elven learn to fence... but that is akin to childhood game... but a true archer is respected to the point where her voice is heard by the city elders...
but i agree, some limits to use weapons even if people can "bring" them due to encumberance rules would be nice...
for example amiri is said in her background can only use the giagiant bastard sword (actually a Greatsword for her) only when in rage... meaning she needs that +4 to str so she is able to use it.
this would be interesting, but i doubt the current system will implement soemthing like this.
Pendagast i agree in almost every sense
while yes, it cehapens a bit the bow giving it tomartial classes and elves it present an option to fighting class, who anyway would usually go first melee and not do a lot of range combatand giving it to the elves who how deep and entrenched the weapon is in the race itself... Elves of Golarion talks about elven archers as being legendary
fencer are nice for the elves, every elven learn to fence... but that is akin to childhood game... but a true archer is respected to the point where her voice is heard by the city elders...
but i agree, some limits to use weapons even if people can "bring" them due to encumberance rules would be nice...
for example amiri is said in her background can only use the giagiant bastard sword (actually a Greatsword for her) only when in rage... meaning she needs that +4 to str so she is able to use it.
this would be interesting, but i doubt the current system will implement soemthing like this.
I guess i was just venting my hate for first level elf wizards with longbows.
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In older versions of the game, all arrows did 1d6.
That isn't true at all. There were two different types of arrows in the AD&D PHB. Flight arrows and sheaf arrows. Sheaf arrows did 1d8. Flight arrows did 1d6, could be fired farther and cost half as much.
A longbow could be used to fire either type of arrow. A short bow could only fire flight arrows. Other than that, the mechanical difference between bows was only a matter of cost and range categories.
Once 3E came around the whole flight/sheaf arrow thing was dropped from the PHB and the damage die was set by the bow, not the arrow.
A longbow (especially in the hands of an elf) draws attention, someone carrying a shortbow says "Im off to hunt for rabbits".
I'll agree with this one. A short bow was a weapon, but it was also a common hunting tool. Just having one didn't immediately identify you as a dangerous person. A longbow was a weapon. Like a sword or a morning star. If you were carrying around a longbow then you clearly intended to shoot people with it rather than deer. Or maybe you were a really wealthy hunter. Either way, people would be drawing some conclusions about you.
This goes with what I mentioned earlier about the greatsword. A certain amount of the rules rely both on common sense and the players/DM caring about such things.
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for example amiri is said in her background can only use the giagiant bastard sword (actually a Greatsword for her) only when in rage... meaning she needs that +4 to str so she is able to use it.
She can still use it when she isn't raging, she just suffers a -2 penalty to hit because she's using a larger weapon. That is why at first level she only has a +2 to hit with it even though her attack modifier should be a +4 (Weapon Focus, BAB and a +2 strength modifier).
Her background says "she can only truly wield it properly" when she rages. When she rages, her extra strength offsets the penalty and lets her "wield it properly" for a short time.
Also, her large bastard sword isn't a greatsword. It is much better than a greatsword. It does 2d8 points of damage.
On that note, I really like the pregenerated characters in these adventure paths. Especially Second Darkness. Bravo to whomever thought them up. Pre-rolled characters have normally been so ... blah.
That isn't true at all. There were two different types of arrows in the AD&D PHB. Flight arrows and sheaf arrows. Sheaf arrows did 1d8. Flight arrows did 1d6, could be fired farther and cost half as much.A longbow could be used to fire either type of arrow. A short bow could only fire flight arrows. Other than that, the mechanical difference between bows was only a matter of cost and range categories.
I believe that was in 2e. In 1e, it was all 1d6 in the PH.
google "books" not google search.
Aside from that, you still plain dodge the point that it not only is and plainly Was demonstrable that it could be done. It was.
Yeah, but the video didn't actually show the bowman hitting a target. He just shot, and the arrow flew off camera. If the camera panned, and we saw the distance the arrow traveled, and what kind of target was actually struck, the video would be far more convincing.
I realize film can only be an approximation, but on of the things that struck me while watching the movie Ran was that the mounted archers (yabusame), is how close they actually get to the target example
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In Ran, the mounted archers rode single file towards foot soldiers, who were armed with polearms, at an angle. They each chose one target, fired within range (less than 50 feet) and the broke off, and reformed for a second attack.
Anyways, to the OP's question: because most D&D encounters do not take place in large, open spaces, as the superior range afforded by the Long Bow is its greatest asset.
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however if it states a greatsword is 6' long, and you are in a 8' diameter tunnel and trying to fight, can you swing the sword over your head? no, around to the side? no.Obviously the space is confining, you should either swtich weapons or talk with the dm about how to use it at present and how it will limit you.
Obviously you half-sword it and use it as a very dangerous and sharp quarterstaff. Fortunately for the Fighter, this is all part of the training regimen and among the fundamental techniques for the greatsword. ;)
This isn't so easy to do with a longbow though, which really only has one function.
as every other weapon, just another tool of the trade, its benefits is just long range and ina group it could be implemented so your enemies "fight in the shadow" created by your Black Rain of Death...
I don't understand why you guys think it's broken? Why is it a problem if the shortbow is "under utilized"? Is the difference between d6 and d8 really THAT important?
i think its not broken, yes its a bit aboused, but in agame that the DM letshis players use it so freely... well nothing to do about it.
I don't understand why you guys think it's broken? Why is it a problem if the shortbow is "under utilized"? Is the difference between d6 and d8 really THAT important?
Thank you!
Not everything has to be about getting that one last point in.
The long bow is... long.
Some characters don't want to be encumbred by a long bow in their back, like they don't want a long sword or a spear.Unfortunately, there are no rules or stats to represent that. A long sword can at least dangle at your side. A spear can at least be used as a walking aid (like a staff). The longbow is just... cumbersome.
Something could be done about the drawing time, as drawing or stowing a longbow is a 1-round action as opposed to a move-equivalent action. A shortbow can be held in a holster or inside the quiver. A longbow? Strapped across the chest... over the backpack... and the potentially sharp-edge armour... without inducing any penalties... give me a break!
When in my game players try to climb trees or squeeze through narrow caves with a longbow on their back or want to sneak through undergrowth with a longbow in hand, I make it a -4 circumstance penalty.
The shortbow is the guerilla-weapon, while the longbow is more like "heavy" war machinery to me.i think its not broken, yes its a bit aboused, but in agame that the DM letshis players use it so freely... well nothing to do about it.
I think that's the clear #1 reason every time something is said to be unbalanced or broken.
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Aside from that, you still plain dodge the point that it not only is and plainly Was demonstrable that it could be done. It was.If English longbowmen went about on horseback Only for transport then why did they make use of bows with a lighter pull when on horseback?
Just to chip in as someone who both owns an English Longbow and has ridden: you would not be able to use a typical longbow effectively from horseback - you'd have to have one designed for that purpose and it would be of less use when used in the normal fashion.
Mine is taller than I am (6'), perhaps less so once bent, and requires very specific posture to get both power and accuracy. I've never tried to shoot it from horseback; I'd honestly not want to try.
If the game longbow is a typical longbow then I'd agree with any DM who houseruled it unusable while mounted.
The longbow, especially in thsi game is the ultimate artillery peice of the player character adventuring group.
Not every "stick slinger" should be walking around with one.
When an archer walks into town with a longbow people should be "ooh, aah" not "oh"
A longbow (especially in the hands of an elf) draws attention, someone carrying a shortbow says "Im off to hunt for rabbits"
That is very strongly dependant on culture.
Here in England, it was for a long time a criminal offense for a male between certain ages to fail to turn up at the village green for longbow practice on a Sunday. This ran from when Edward the Third created the law in 1363 until at least 1590 when the English army removed the longbow from its list of weaponry and possibly until as late as 1960 when the remainder of the law was replaced by a new act.