I hope Paizo has an Adventure Path focused on the dwarven people, similar to the way Second Darkness was focused on elves... Even if it's just a thought in the back of their head..
Edit: Or Gnomes too.. I'm very interested in the whole "Bleaching" thing, and would like to explore that in game..
Edit: Or Gnomes too.. I'm very interested in the whole "Bleaching" thing, and would like to explore that in game..
What is "Bleaching"?
Heh, didn't realize it, but it's only mentioned in the Campaign setting..
It has to do with their 'wondrous' nature. Basically, they lose their color.. they 'fade' if they don't experience new and exciting things. So long as they keep their color, they live forever. If they fade, within a year they'll die.
Bleaching: As Slats said, Gnomes have a somewhat different relationship with aging. When they were in the First World (the fey realm), they were immortal. Now that they're on Golarion, they're only somewhat immortal: As long as they get new experiences regularly, they do not age at all, and they won't die (of old age).
But if they don't get their "fix" regularly, they will bleach - their skin, eye, and hair colours will fade, and so will their presences.
For each year they do not gain a new experience, they instantly advance a whole age category. That honly works a couple of times, before they die. Can be at 5, can be at 5000.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gnome campaign: Definetly. Unveil the reason gnomes had to leave the First World!
Dwarf campaign: I'm falling asleep from even thinking about it. Would be the first AP where the characters would have to meet in a tavern, because that's where all the dwarves are when they're not in their mine or counting their gold.
Meet many dwarves, all essentially the same: Scottish accent, rude, bashing other races for their lack of beirds and their females' lack of beards.
I would have to cancel my subscription if such a campaign happened.
;-P
I'm not wholly serious, but I won't reveal which parts were only jokes.
On the other side, a dwarf campaign would be a perfect opportunity to kill dwarves by dozens...
;)
I have full confidence that Paizo could make a dwarven AP, and make it just as fun as their current APs. I'm not sure how they want to present duergar, but I'm sure the AP wouldn't be boring at all.
And I would be very happy if they did make a Gnome AP too. I wouldn't even be upset if it came before the dwarfs..
On the other side, a dwarf campaign would be a perfect opportunity to kill dwarves by dozens...
;)
"Yer yappin's gonna get ye some hurtin' laddie."
Meet many dwarves, all essentially the same: Scottish accent, rude, bashing other races for their lack of beirds and their females' lack of beards.
"Ah needn't bash ye, laddie. Mammy MacHammar 'il likely strangle ye' ba yer oon lips fer such blabbin'"
I hope Paizo has an Adventure Path focused on the dwarven people, similar to the way Second Darkness was focused on elves... Even if it's just a thought in the back of their head..
Edit: Or Gnomes too.. I'm very interested in the whole "Bleaching" thing, and would like to explore that in game..
I'd love a AP focused on dwarfs! Given the Paizo treatment this could be a total blast.
GRU
On the other side, a dwarf campaign would be a perfect opportunity to kill dwarves by dozens...
I like the way you think. But could we make it hundreds? For the first adventure.
We could have lots of them for players to kill, and then more scenes where clumsily supported tunnels buries some more alive, or they slip and fall into piranha tanks.
Actually, we need to put a disclaimer onto the books: "Warning: You might laugh so hard you rupture your internal organs." I'm sure there will still be many takers.
"Ah needn't bash ye, laddie. Mammy MacHammar 'il likely strangle ye' ba yer oon lips fer such blabbin'"
I don't know what it means, but we've put some language specialists on it and they think it means: "My mule is really attractive."
|
While I believe that a dwarven AP would likely be the all time best selling RPG product in history, the Paizo team seems a bit prejudiced against the greatest race to walk Golarion. Some reason, they like tree humping elves... no accounting for tastes.
When I read the history of the elves to my gamers the response was "Oh, no. Not another cliche elven race that flees at the fist sign of trouble." Then I read the history of the dwarves and they loved the original flavor!"
Let's face it, the only people who loved Legolas in Lord of the Rings were a bunch of thirteen year old girls. Everyone else loved Gimli. So, all you thirteen year old girls keep bashing dwarves... we understand... the rest of us will wait patiently for the best AP ever to be published... featuring the dwarves!
;)
While I believe that a dwarven AP would likely be the all time best selling RPG product in history, the Paizo team seems a bit prejudiced against the greatest race to walk Golarion. Some reason, they like tree humping elves... no accounting for tastes.
When I read the history of the elves to my gamers the response was "Oh, no. Not another cliche elven race that flees at the fist sign of trouble." Then I read the history of the dwarves and they loved the original flavor!"
Let's face it, the only people who loved Legolas in Lord of the Rings were a bunch of thirteen year old girls. Everyone else loved Gimli. So, all you thirteen year old girls keep bashing dwarves... we understand... the rest of us will wait patiently for the best AP ever to be published... featuring the dwarves!
;)
Can I change my vote for president or is it too late? If you had peaked a little sooner Krome, you'd have had my vote.
The Quest for Sky was an awesome awesome thing, and by far one of my favorite pieces of flavor for Golarion. I'd like to hear more about the Five Kings Mountains myself, plus a return to the Darkmoon Vale area isn't necessarily a bad thing. You've already got filler modules for the region, plus a Guide. :D
Plus I have a bald dwarven monk that wants to know more about her people. :D
Didn't Legolas win? Both the orc killing contest and the drinking contest?
The Quest for Sky was an awesome awesome thing
Because of this Quest for Sky, the surface has to contend with orcs. Without the quest, orcs would still be down there.
The only thing the Quest brought us that is worse than the orcs is the dwarves! :P
|
We could have lots of them for players to kill, and then more scenes where clumsily supported tunnels buries some more alive, or they slip and fall into piranha tanks.
The dwarves inadverdantly dig their tunnels under and up through the Eye of Adendego. They all get swept away by the hurricane. Then the ocean fills the tunnels drowning the entire race.
|
|
Let's face it, the only people who loved Legolas in Lord of the Rings were a bunch of thirteen year old girls.Every person that I've introduced to the game has made a Legolas clone as their first character. I've rarely seen anyone (new or veteran) play a dwarf.
True, every inexperienced or young or immature player I have played with wanted a Legolas knock off as well. :) They soon outgrow the fascination with cliche over played character concepts and learn to play a character with more depth and interest. :) That would be dwarves. :)
And serious about that too. I have played several games with new players. They always make a Legolas knock off. Their next character is usually a dwarf- and not a clone. Something different and interesting.
Elves are great to learn the game with. But as they mature they decide humping trees is boring, fleeing from troubling times is not very heroic, and they choose ANY thing else.
Elves are a great teeny bopper introductory race, don't get me wrong.
But once someone has hit puberty and read a couple of non-picture books and rolled the bones a few times, it is time to play a dwarf.
Slatz has a great idea. I would think an eventual AP of any of the other races could be made exciting.
I think every race has been tainted by bad players, but that's never soured my love of the races. If I've ever had a bad player, I'd just kick them out of the group or otherwise stop playing with them. Like the other races, Dwarves are one of the original core, and my personal favorite. I think it's a shame to constantly see them neglected.
I also share Lilith's interest with Quest for the Sky. Something with that as a background would hold my interest.
|
Every person that I've introduced to the game has made a Legolas clone as their first character. I've rarely seen anyone (new or veteran) play a dwarf.
The first character I ever played in a D&D game was a dwarf. The first character I ever played in a Living game was a dwarf. I have only played 2 elves since 3.0 came out, and I think that is the same number for 1st and second D&D.
The dwarves inadverdantly dig their tunnels under and up through the Eye of Adendego. They all get swept away by the hurricane. Then the ocean fills the tunnels drowning the entire race.
Great! But let's not forget the classics: Digging too deep and being eaten by bal critters (be them -ors or -rogs).
I've rarely seen anyone (new or veteran) play a dwarf.
I have. I also have seen many powergamers and people who enjoy playing obnoxious characters.
And they managed to combine all three into one on many an occation...
I prefer pratchett dwarves myself.
Amen to that. Pass the ketchup. Terry really knows how to write about those grits... I mean valued citicens.
And serious about that too. I have played several games with new players. They always make a Legolas knock off. Their next character is usually a dwarf- and not a clone. Something different and interesting.
I have seen few legolas clones, but many cliché dwarves - I'd say 90% of the dwarves I've seen played were cliché. And 75% were a pest.
It's all anecdotal in the end, and doesn't change the facts that dwarves stink.
The bad thing is that those players rarely mature. There's one guy I can hardly remember playing anything but annoying, min-maxed dwarves. The one thing I can remember was a mindflayer telepath in a gestalt campaign (he managed to take that too far, too).
|
|
And serious about that too. I have played several games with new players. They always make a Legolas knock off. Their next character is usually a dwarf- and not a clone. Something different and interesting.I have seen few legolas clones, but many cliché dwarves - I'd say 90% of the dwarves I've seen played were cliché. And 75% were a pest.
It's all anecdotal in the end, and doesn't change the facts that dwarves stink.
The bad thing is that those players rarely mature. There's one guy I can hardly remember playing anything but annoying, min-maxed dwarves. The one thing I can remember was a mindflayer telepath in a gestalt campaign (he managed to take that too far, too).
Try running a campaign where three of the players come to the table with Drizzt Clones, 2 elves and one human trained by elves.
I don't know where you have been gaming, but I have seen and played dwarven fighters, rangers, paladins, clerics, wizards and rogues (no durids or sorcerers yet). And before you ask, only two of the dwarves I played have been straight fighters.
In my experience, it is not the character that is the problem, it is the person playing. I know one person who played a paladin (badly) through four campaigns because that was the only character he liked.
Dwarves are not the problem (the do not stink), it is the players who are too lazy and unimaginative to flesh out their characters properly.
|
|
Let's face it, the only people who loved Legolas in Lord of the Rings were a bunch of thirteen year old girls. Everyone else loved Gimli.
There speaks the voice of a man who has forgotten the books and now thinks that the films are Lord of the Rings :(
Legolas is too cool for yo' school in the books. Gimli's the one who goes weak at the knees like a big girl's blouse the first time he meets a woman who doesn't have a beard.
Most of the ideas in this thread sound better suited to an individual module than entire APs (especially that whole weird gnome and bleaching thing - no thanks).
But I'd certainly be interested in an AP that heavily features dwarves and brings to mind Lord of the Rings and Moria.
I personally think that the whole boo-dwarfs-boo sentiment is silly, their just as legimate and variable as elves.
I would really like to see a dwarfs of golarion Pathfinder Companion, but gnomes hold my heart and soul, I adore Paizo gnomes!
-Stop D&D racial friction,
support equal AP oppurtunity!-
Just takes me back to the Wizard strikes of the 90's and the Fighters against Barbarians movement. Class politics are where things get nasty.
Dwarves are not the problem (the do not stink), it is the players who are too lazy and unimaginative to flesh out their characters properly.
Quoted For Truth.
I agree completely. Whatever the race or class, the problem is here.
GO GO GO Gnome powers activate!
Dwarves are not the problem
Neither are elves, or any other race.
Well, dwarves really are, because they're overpowered. ;-P
|
|
Despite what I said above, I like dwarves and wish that players would utilize them more often in my games (along with gnomes and halflngs). And after gnomes, dwarves are the race that I would most like to see get their own Pathfinder Companion. I think that one thing that dwarves have got going for them above all the other player races is flavor. They are chock full of it. And that's a good thing.
Besides, dwarf-tossing is fun!
|
In an upcoming game, my character is going to be a dwarf rogue. The DM is strongly trying to 'encourage' me to play something else race-wise. He'd rather I be an Elf rogue, and I told him "i'm not doing it". In our games, everyone is usually Human, Elf, or Halfling.. with the occasional Half-Orc, or some other non-core race. Nobody wants to be the Gnome or Dwarf. I happen to like both, so my DM is going to have to deal with it. He also says that a Dwarven Rogue doesn't make sense..
shows what he knows..
He also says that a Dwarven Rogue doesn't make sense..
shows what he knows..
Open the beta and point him to the page where it reads "Dwarven Greed."
He needs a clearer sign than that?
I'm with Krome— elves are boring.
They can be boring sometimes...
But dwarves can be fun to play, especially if you can play a drunken master!
|
|
Dwarves are by far the most flavorful non human race to play. There are clans and families and organizations all vying for loyalty. There are the PCs and the gods (OK Golarion non human dwarves kinda suck- we are using Iron Kingdom non human gods) vying for loyalty.
It is easy for elves, they don't have to show loyalty to anything longer than a second. They can turn on their friends and family without second thoughts. Not so for a dwarf.
Even the boring old cliches are more interesting to play. And then there are "odd" choices to have fun with- dwarven druids, dwarven bards, dwarven monks!
Also, it is hard for me to honestly believe anyone WANTS to play a Golarion elf over a Golarion dwarf. The elves of Golarion have shown they will run away at the first sign of trouble, that they will turn their backs on family and friends and leave rather than face hard times. I suppose a player could work with that, but it would be hard to deal with the mistrust of other players. When planning for the BBEG battle can we trust the elf to stay or will he flee?
I was seriously disappointed in the nonhuman gods in the Gods & Magic book. The dwarven gods do not mention a thing about the Quest for the Sky, the elven gods do not mention anything about fleeing Golarion. There was so much potential there that was untapped. Unfortunately, the gods of Golarion seem to be like everything else nonhuman in Golarion- an afterthought.
I know Golarion is a Human dominated world, but the game has seven races to play, so the setting ignores 85.7% of players and treats them as afterthoughts.
So, I suggest for you nonhuman players out there, find a copy of Iron Kingdoms Player Guide Vol 1 and get it. They have the best thought pantheon of non human gods I have ever seen. Adjust for some Golarion specific concepts, like Quest for the Sky and fleeing Golarion, and you are set.
Dwarves are by far the most flavorful non human race to play.
Ain't that the truth... And anyone who has played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay knows how cool dwarves are.
Elves on the other hand got the best treatment in Glorantha, where the trolls consider them the vegeterian alternative...
|
I'm thinking of writing a story/adventure idea in Darkmoon Vale where some of the dwarves have grown to dislike the lumber consortium, and are supplying the lumberjack with dwarven axes (maximized for tree cutting, not fighting) for free, building sawmills just outside of the vale and offering lumberjacks to bring hardwood there to be cut, and offering to ship/sell it in their caravans and otherwise starting to undermine the consortium. This group of dwarves are planning on using the shipments to smuggle other dwarven artifacts. (not sure if this is to prevent something evil from getting to the artifacts, or because they themselves are evil yet)
The DM is strongly trying to 'encourage' me to play something else race-wise. [...] He also says that a Dwarven Rogue doesn't make sense..
I'll House this: "Your DM is an idiot!".
But seriously: If he doesn't want dwarves, he should edit them out of his campaign. If he wants 2E-ist restrictions, he should play 2e.
But otherwise, if you want to play a dwarf rogue, he should let you play a dwarf rogue. They can totally make sense (unless you have a very limited vision about rogues, and still call them "thieves"), and the character doesn't need to be boring or bad.
Dwarves are by far the most flavorful non human race to play.
Are not.
It is easy for elves, they don't have to show loyalty to anything longer than a second.
Slander. Malicious Lies and Slander. I'd say you dwarves have sunk low, but low's your usual state.
It's true that they don't have to show loyalty. They choose to do so. A choice is all the more significant if you chose, not if you're forced to.
They can turn on their friends and family without second thoughts. Not so for a dwarf.
Do you know anything about elves? I guess not. One of the most important things for them is honour, and turning on their friends is about one of the most heinous acts for an elf.
Also, it is hard for me to honestly believe anyone WANTS to play a Golarion elf over a Golarion dwarf. The elves of Golarion have shown they will run away at the first sign of trouble, that they will turn their backs on family and friends and leave rather than face hard times.
Well, it was not their problem - why should they fix the things another race brought upon itself? Especially if the race was quite arrogant? If those Azlanti were so great and proud, why didn't they fix it themselves.
The Azlanti were the ones who got everyone into trouble because of the behaviour.
Well, them and the dwarves: When the dwarves were unable to deal with the orcs, they dumped the problem on the surface world, and for the next thousand years, humans suffered because of them.
I suppose a player could work with that, but it would be hard to deal with the mistrust of other players. When planning for the BBEG battle can we trust the elf to stay or will he flee?
They wouldn't get into the final fight with a dwarf in a party, because the first time they would meet any authority figure, the dwarf and his rampart racism would insult him for not being a dwarf and having a short beard or something. Then they would all be in trouble - like always, because of the dwarf's shortcomings.
I was seriously disappointed in the nonhuman gods in the Gods & Magic book. The dwarven gods do not mention a thing about the Quest for the Sky.
Not much glory in achieving something everyone else has achieved long before, without any difficulties.
So, I suggest for you nonhuman players out there, find a copy of Iron Kingdoms Player Guide Vol 1 and get it.
Nah, I won't pay for that. It's written by dwarf fanbois. You don't encourage them.
And then there are "odd" choices to have fun with- dwarven druids, dwarven bards, dwarven monks!
Drarven sorcerers, duskblades, beguilers, warlocks, wu jen, hexblades, etc, etc...
Even the boring old cliches are more interesting to play. And then there are "odd" choices to have fun with- dwarven druids, dwarven bards, dwarven monks!
AYE!
Is that even a real name, "Stone fist"?
Sounds like someone with really clumsy hands, unable to craft even the simplest tool, let alone arms and armour, and thus forced to fight without any weapons or protection. ;-P
|
|
I don't know why, but my DM just doesn't seem to think that a Dwarf Rogue makes sense. Typically, the only rogues in our group end up being Human, Halfling, or Elf. I played a Gnome Rogue once, and i had a blast. Now's my chance to play a Dwarf Rogue. He's a mercenary/scout type, an atypical dwarf, and chaotic neutral.
Is that even a real name, "Stone fist"?
Sounds like someone with really clumsy hands, unable to craft even the simplest tool, let alone arms and armour, and thus forced to fight without any weapons or protection. ;-P
You'd best be watching your tongue no-beard. The Stonefists are as immovable as the mountain and as powerful as an avalanche.
The Stonefists are as immovable as the mountain
Why would I be afraid of something that cannot move?
BTW, we have forbidden Gnomes in all games forever, because we had a bad player play a bad gnome 10 years ago.
If I did that, I would have to ban
You may think that dwarves was used repeatedly, but that's by design. For some reason, 90% of the dwarves I've seen played were total jerks. I've seen lots of bad humans and elves and so on, but there were lots of good ones, too.
I think I know why there are so many bad dwarves, though. There's two reasons:
Is that even a real name, "Stone fist"?
Sounds like someone with really clumsy hands, unable to craft even the simplest tool, let alone arms and armour, and thus forced to fight without any weapons or protection. ;-P
Aye, 'tis true, me hands are clumsy at fine craftwork, to my mother and father's shame.
But as me brother and I can attest...we don't need a weapon to hurt ye.