It is a shame we got of track here because I think there is an important discussion to be had about the differences (or lack) between "Improvised" vs "Free" weapons.
It is a shame we got of track here because I think there is an important discussion to be had about the differences (or lack) between "Improvised" vs "Free" weapons.
It's the top of a new page. Page two is already a distant memory. Just start it back up again and get us back on track, Baquies.
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(re-posted)
I think it is important that some weapons me free, so that there's always something a character can get when they are disarmed, such as in prison.
Price doesn't have anything to do with what weapons you can find. If I had a pocket full of gold, I wouldn't be able to "find" a longsword in prision.
You can break out and make a staff out of a table leg or something.
This strikes me as the perfect definition of an improvised weapon, and it's why feats like Caught Off Guard and Throw Anything matter.
I originally said 1 gp. That is clearly too high, but it ought to cost something, even 1 sp. Somebody had to make it and they are going to want some compensation for their efforts, and if you want to make your own, cool, Craft away.
Yes, I think a token cost should be associated with the club and other "free" weapons in order to differentiate them from improvised weapons.
How many caps for a plasma rifle?Depends on the condition.
Personally I prefer my Chinese Assault Rifle. Or since we are talking about Melee weapons specifically, the Shishkabob. I am itching to make a Deathclaw Glove though and see how that goes...
The Chinese SKS knockoff or the Chinese AK-47 knockoff?
The SKS was pure garbage. Jammed so much I thought it was toast spread...
The Chinese AK was only marginally better, IMO.
Give me that CCCP label any day...
Long life to the Gauss Rifle from Fallout 2 !!!
BEST - WEAPON - EVER in the Fallout world !!!
Back on topic: these weapons are ok for me. A sling is basically a strip of leather (or, as I call it with my players 'your underpants'), a club is a thick branch and a quarterstaff is a long, sturdy branch.
No reason to make them cost something.
Ross, as you ask players to roll for their craft,are you going to RP how they buy all their equipment? from breaches to armor, to holy item and sword? or are they supposed to already have it with them?
Of course not. But if the player doesn't want to roll and find out how much game-time they're spending whittling a club, then they should be prepared to folk over some copper pieces.
I mean, it's not like any old stick actually works as a quarterstaff.
If the player wants a truly free weapon, i.e. no cost, no craft check, the can use a long stick or a heavy branch as a club or a quarterstaff at the -4 improvised penalty.
Anyone who doubts this, go take a three-foot tree branch, fresh off a tree, and 3-foot length of 2x2 from a hardware store and see which is easier to wield.
And to those readers who are still here, I remain firm in my stance that weapons do not need to be made by a weapon craftsman to be effective.
To Paizo, please leave the mentioned weapons at zero cost.
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And to those readers who are still here, I remain firm in my stance that weapons do not need to be made by a weapon craftsman to be effective.
If one can just pick up a stick and hit someone with it, what is the point of:
1) improvised weapon penalties
2) feats like Caught Off Guard and Throw Anything that allow characters to, basically, pick up a stick and hit someone with it (or throw it)
3) rules for Crafting simple weapons (DC 12)
And to those readers who are still here, I remain firm in my stance that weapons do not need to be made by a weapon craftsman to be effective.If one can just pick up a stick and hit someone with it, what is the point of:
1) improvised weapon penalties
2) feats like Caught Off Guard and Throw Anything that allow characters to, basically, pick up a stick and hit someone with it (or throw it)
3) rules for Crafting simple weapons (DC 12)
Mosaic, as for the rules, I concede.
You have made your point.
I however would not use these in my game. I would simply lower the damage done.
Director of Brand Strategy
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And to those readers who are still here, I remain firm in my stance that weapons do not need to be made by a weapon craftsman to be effective.If one can just pick up a stick and hit someone with it, what is the point of:
1) improvised weapon penalties
2) feats like Caught Off Guard and Throw Anything that allow characters to, basically, pick up a stick and hit someone with it (or throw it)
3) rules for Crafting simple weapons (DC 12)
This is a valid point. I think that, yes, you can make a club or a sling out of whatever you want, but it's an improvised weapon until you make that craft check. Crafting is a universal class skill and can be attempted untrained. Even with a 10 INT and no ranks, you're looking at a 45% chance of success. So if you're walking in the woods and need a weapon right away, you take penalties. If you have a bit of time to whittle it into a balanced weapon, you can treat it as normal.
If you are meeting an unnamed individual in a hypothetical wood and are both supposed to improvise weapons, the penalties will cancel each other out, so that point is moot. Though if you spend the time to craft your stick into a quarterstaff you'll have the upper hand.
I agree. No crafted weapon should be free.
And from my experience, when you beat someone to death with a stick, it pays to either do some crafting on it (better grip, better striking area, etc) or pay someone else to.
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Director of Games
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Since this thread has drifted all over the place and has turned into a flame war, I am just going to go ahead and lock it down. Oh, and I have suppressed most of the flaming. Please do not drag this back to the surface elsewhere.
This thread is locked.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing