I think Clerics like every other class should have a capstone ability at 20th level. Clerics don't have one currently in the beta rules (I'm not counting the domain spells as one).
I think the 20th level domain spells could be changed to be domain powers, a little like the ones at 1st or 8th level, but more powerful of course. The Cleric could be made to choose only one power from his domains to avoid an epic cleric who has multiple domain powers. The power could even be God specific (but this has some problems for other settings).
The cleric could of course gain a capstone which is completely separate from his domains, but in my opinion it would be best to come from his domains and/or God.
At 20th level the Wizard gets a school power and the Sorcerer a bloodline power, so why not give a cleric a real power at 20th level?
Some discussion can also be found here.
I think Clerics like every other class should have a capstone ability at 20th level. Clerics don't have one currently in the beta rules (I'm not counting the domain spells as one).
I think the 20th level domain spells could be changed to be domain powers, a little like the ones at 1st or 8th level, but more powerful of course. The Cleric could be made to choose only one power from his domains to avoid an epic cleric who has multiple domain powers. The power could even be God specific (but this has some problems for other settings).
The cleric could of course gain a capstone which is completely separate from his domains, but in my opinion it would be best to come from his domains and/or God.
At 20th level the Wizard gets a school power and the Sorcerer a bloodline power, so why not give a cleric a real power at 20th level?
Some discussion can also be found here.
I agree with you to a degree....but those classes that have access to 9th level spells already have some pretty damn good advantages. If some power was added to classes like this it should not be ground breaking.
Uh yea...
20th Fighter: "I can't be disarmed with this weapon, AND when I make a critical strike I do it better!"
17th Cleric: "I cast Implosion. Then I cast Miracle just for fun, and gate in a Solar cuz I need some company."
.
.
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Yeah... sorry. Casters own. 9th level spells are like having a capstone ability 4 levels early.
Uh yea...
20th Fighter: "I can't be disarmed with this weapon, AND when I make a critical strike I do it better!"
17th Cleric: "I cast Implosion. Then I cast Miracle just for fun, and gate in a Solar cuz I need some company."
.
.
.Yeah... sorry. Casters own. 9th level spells are like having a capstone ability 4 levels early.
You have a point there, but I'm comparing Cleric to other casters. If they get a capstone, so should cleric. Right now there is no real thing that wants me to stay pure cleric till 20th. I could easily switch to a PrC that increases divine spell casting ability and has some nice abilities like full BAB.
You have a point there, but I'm comparing Cleric to other casters. If they get a capstone, so should cleric. Right now there is no real thing that wants me to stay pure cleric till 20th. I could easily switch to a PrC that increases divine spell casting ability and has some nice abilities like full BAB.
No other caster gets a capstone any differently than the Cleric. Everyone gets "powers", be it Domain powers, Bloodline powers, or Arcane School powers.
(The druid is a corner case, getting Wildshape (at-will), and if he chose the Domain instead of Animal Companion, he's in the same boat as the Cleric.
And really, the magic item guide puts 5 uses/day the equivalent pricing of permanent. Going from 8 uses to "at-will" isn't exactly blowing my mind as a capstone.)
Multiclassing out of Cleric will lose you 12th, 16th and 20th level Domain Powers. If you feel those aren't incentive, then you might want to make a thread about which Domain Power spells might need changing/tweaking, etc.
But I still don't see the capstone difference between any of the casters. And since full casters get 9th level spells, they aren't exactly hurting compared to the rest of the classes.
Lots of the domains have 12th, 16th, and 20th level abilities which are arcane spells as spell like abilities. It might be a fair complaint if they were all divine but you get arcane abilities. This combined with the normal awesome of clerics makes a fine capstone I think.
Just wanted to point out that the 12th, 16th, and 20th level abilities are *spells*, not spell-like abilities.
Doubling 9th level spells at 20th level (from 3 at 19th to 4+2 domain at 20th) is quite a nice capstone in my opinion. Those 9th level spells are usually pretty useful, but if not can be used for Mass Cure Critical Wounds or Empowered Mass Cure Serious Wounds instead.
But I'll take 3 9th level spells as a "capstone" any day. Particularly as Tass said, some really nice arcane spells.