Some spells to add to the paladin spell list

[Jason Nelson]

Yes, I realize it's rather late in the game to add a new thread, but why not just throw one out there. We know paladins can cast spells, and that is one of their compensations for not being as good at straight-up combat as the fighters are, but their spell list is... a little thin.

I just thought I would throw out a few suggestions for enhancing it, spells that seem very thematic for paladins, and a few that I'm frankly shocked aren't already on his list.

1. Spells they already kind of get, but only partially.

Why do paladins ahve a level skip in their cure wounds spells? Why do they get magic weapon but not the other similar spells in that tree? Why stat buffs for STR, WIS, and CHA but not CON?

1st -
2nd - bear's endurance, cure moderate wounds
3rd - cure serious wounds, magic vestment, magic weapon (greater)
4th - cure critical wounds (or maybe breath of life)

2. They are holy warriors, perhaps a little more in the way of combat buffs.

1st - shield of faith
2nd - aid, heroism, protection from arrows
3rd - divine power, keen edge (keen is maybe superfluous with divine bond, but it's a thought)
4th - righteous might

3. They are also benevolent protectors and caretakers, so a few more spells to help their allies (and themselves).

1st - mount, remove fear, sanctuary
2nd - calm emotions
3rd - lesser planar ally
4th - atonement, heroes' feast

4. Call down the thunder and the holy wrath upon the unbeliever!!! (or perhaps immobilize someone for, yknow, questioning instead of killification)

1st - nothing really jumping out at me here, unless you wanted to throw in something like sound burst, but really this sort of spell isn't going to be a paladin's forte anyway. Just sort of a nice add-on if that's the way he wanted to go.
2nd - hold person
3rd - searing light
4th - hold monster, holy smite, order's wrath

I think any of these types of spells would be sensible and logical additions (or adjustments to spells already on the list, in the case of the cures under #1) and would make the pally's spell list more enticing for those who want to make that a really useful part of the class.

Thoughts?

[Arakhor]

I think that's in danger of making the paladin's spells too useful. The spell-casting is only a minor aspect of his character (such that there are options for removing it altogether). I certainly wouldn't allow paladins to use Atonement - history and literature are replete with knights begging God/gods for forgiveness, via prayer and their local priesthood.

[Jason Nelson]

Arakhor wrote:

I think that's in danger of making the paladin's spells too useful. The spell-casting is only a minor aspect of his character (such that there are options for removing it altogether). I certainly wouldn't allow paladins to use Atonement - history and literature are replete with knights begging God/gods for forgiveness, via prayer and their local priesthood.

Sure, but most knights weren't paladins. They were fighters.

For that matter, according to traditional D&D flavor text back to 1st Ed, church knights were actually clerics, hence the heavy armor & shields. Irony, eh?

As to whether a paladin's spells would be TOO useful? Maybe. Then again, look how few they get per day. And how low-level their spells are. At 13th level, they get 4th level spells, woohoo! Except the other casters got those SIX LEVELS AGO and have moved on to holy word, resurrection, finger of death, power word blind, prismatic spray et al., while you are just now dinking around with holy smite and atonement. Especially if we're talking half caster level. If you gave full caster level... maybe... naaah.

Come on, their spellcasting is still way in the back of their utility belt, but this might slide it a little more towards the front to where they don't forget they even have it.

[spalding]

The only real issue I see with this is with the way paladin's are looking right now they have ALOT of reasons to pump their Cha which will in turn pump their bonus spells and DC. Not enough to threaten full casters in any way, but maybe enough to cause the paladin some balance issues with fighters and rangers.

IF paladin remain memorizing casters I could go with this improved list.

IF they go to spontaneous I would want a second look just to be sure.

[lastknightleft]

If paladins stay casting memorization based, I'm prolly gonna poo a brick about it. but if they do, they need better spells.

Either way, Raise dead needs to be added as a 4th level spell.

[Matthew Vickrey]

I'm vehemently against Paladins being able to cast spells like Raise Dead and Atonement as I feel it steps on the toes of clerics. However, the current paladin spells are a joke.

It is true that spell-casting is only a minor aspect of the class, however, the spells on the paladin list are almost worthless. As it stands now, paladins could lose all spell-casting ability without losing much effectiveness as a class.

Let's look at the spell-casting mechanics:

*No spellcasting until 4th level
*Max spell level is 4
*Max caster level is 10
*Max number of base spell slots are 4/4/4/3 at 20th level

Would it really be so wrong to add a few spells to their list?

At least fix their "cure wounds" line so they get "cure critical wounds" as a 4th level spell. Also, toss in "bear's endurance" and "eagle's splendor" at the very least.

As for most of the other spells, they don't seem too out of line, provided that the paladin never gets a clear advantage over clerics in any regard to spell-casting.