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There's nothing in the Guide stating that a 2nd level character cannot play in the higher Tier adventure. However, given the increased challenges, it is likely that a single character of significantly lower level will not survive.
If you're not alive at the end of the scenario, you get no rewards. Significantly lower level PCs could be an unfair draw on group resources if the party is constantly spending money to have the weaker PC raised from the dead.
Additionally, while there is an increase in material reward for doing so, the lower-level PC isn't going to advance any faster by taking on the higher level challenge.
As for the larger parties of the same or very similar level, Josh stated in another thread that, while the scenarios are written for parties of 4 PCs, it is readily acknowledged that many groups are consisting of about 6 PCs. For 1st or 2nd level groups playing on Tier 1-2, it means that the adventure is a little easier.
With an APL of 3, however, the group is squarely between Tiers and must choose between the lower risk associated with Tier 1-2 and the greater monetary reward from Tier 4-5.
Calculate the party's APL (average party level) and that's the Tier they should play in.
Six level 2 characters are APL 2 and should play Tier 1-2. Six level 3 characters are APL 3 and in a Tier 1-5 scenario, they'd get to choose up or down. Six level 5 characters are APL 5 and should play Tier 4-5.
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Calculate the party's APL (average party level) and that's the Tier they should play in.
Six level 2 characters are APL 2 and should play Tier 1-2. Six level 3 characters are APL 3 and in a Tier 1-5 scenario, they'd get to choose up or down. Six level 5 characters are APL 5 and should play Tier 4-5.
Should, but is it mandatory? Can 6 2nd level character play on Tier 4-5?
Director of Brand Strategy
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Should, but is it mandatory? Can 6 2nd level character play on Tier 4-5?Calculate the party's APL (average party level) and that's the Tier they should play in.
Six level 2 characters are APL 2 and should play Tier 1-2. Six level 3 characters are APL 3 and in a Tier 1-5 scenario, they'd get to choose up or down. Six level 5 characters are APL 5 and should play Tier 4-5.
If they want to die. Seriously, they won't survive. T. P. K.
Not true. If characters are sufficiently powerful, tier 1-2 will become cakewalk for them. I played among the living with the setup Deussu described(six 2nd level characters), and it was tough but doable.
Really, if a party has the right tools for the job and a healthy pile of scrolls of cure light wounds, they will walk over encounters of their own tier and be appropriately challenged by encounters of a higher tier.
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I'd like to know if it is mandatory as well, we have a group of (mostly) 3rd level characters, but we had someone who lost two characters and is still level 1 (but now he's playing a support char so he can stay out of the front line) we're kind of looking forward to going to the upper tier for the $$, daddy needs a suit of +1 Full Plate
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Not true. If characters are sufficiently powerful, tier 1-2 will become cakewalk for them. I played among the living with the setup Deussu described(six 2nd level characters), and it was tough but doable.** spoiler omitted **
Really, if a party has the right tools for the job and a healthy pile of scrolls of cure light wounds, they will walk over encounters of their own tier and be appropriately challenged by encounters of a higher tier.
Exactly.
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We just played Crocodile King Tier 1-2 with 3 level 3s and two level 1s. It was waaaay too easy. I'm the cleric, I used cure light once, and that was it. Our group can definitely handle 4-5 but I'm hesitant to do it without knowing it's ok until our party average is at least 2.5 and we can 'round up'.
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I am very unclear on the Tier system and I can't find any guidance in the Organised Play Rules.
If you have a table of 6 players I see you simply divide their total levels by 6. Does anything over 2 gives the players the option to choose to round up to Tier 3? Surely the DM (who knows the difficulty of the adventure, and some are very tough) can give them a hint here.
But what if there are only 4 players around the table. Do you divide their total levels by 6 to compensate for having fewer players? Or by 4 and disadvantage them?
And if there are 7 players do you divide by 6 and add the last player's levels to allow for them going in mob-handed. Or do you divide by 7 and allow them the advantage?
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I'm not sure what the official rule is, but we had three level threes and three level 1s, we went with the tier 3-4 game because the three level 3s (Cleric, Paladin, Sorceror) were more than capable of keeping the extra Druids and Fighter up and running. We had one close call but otherwise did well.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I'm not sure what the official rule is, but we had three level threes and three level 1s, we went with the tier 3-4 game because the three level 3s (Cleric, Paladin, Sorceror) were more than capable of keeping the extra Druids and Fighter up and running. We had one close call but otherwise did well.
3x3 + 3x1 = 12
12/6 = 2Your APL was 2, so I think the rules are to run that in tier 1-2. But if it worked for you, great. It's just going to overpower those low level PCs with all that extra cash.
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I'm not sure what the official rule is, but we had three level threes and three level 1s, we went with the tier 3-4 game because the three level 3s (Cleric, Paladin, Sorceror) were more than capable of keeping the extra Druids and Fighter up and running. We had one close call but otherwise did well.3x3 + 3x1 = 12
12/6 = 2
Your APL was 2, so I think the rules are to run that in tier 1-2. But if it worked for you, great. It's just going to overpower those low level PCs with all that extra cash.
With a party of four we would've done the tier 1-2, but there were six of us, tier 1-2 would've been way too easy for everyone (as the last couple of tier 1-2 games we've done have been). Given the primary rule of PFS is 'have fun' and that Season 0 is a playtest I think we made the better choice.
Tier 1-2 chars are not getting through mine (cleric) and the paladin's 22 and 23 ACs =p
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Your APL was 2, so I think the rules are to run that in tier 1-2.
My question is where are these rules? I've read the Guide as well, and there's not a lot in there to help GMs with this kind of question. A lot on how to run the scenario and make the awards and do the paperwork FOR THAT SCENARIO, but, not a lot on how to select the scenario, etc.
Those rules will be clearer in v1.2. The intent is that you should run the tier appropriate to your APL.
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By now I've seen almost every chronicle sheet with mixed up tiers. No one seems to be sure whether it should be 3-4 or 4-5. And almost all seem to have 6-7, not 7-8.
This is getting too confusing. Is there something preventing from doing a system similar to LG as in "APL 2/4/6/8/10", or should it be renamed as "APGL" (Average Pathfinder Group Level)?
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BUMP
Decide already! The chronicle sheets constantly show BOTH Tier 3-4 and 4-5 !
In the "Items Found During This Scenario" section it shows Tier 1-2, Tier 3-4, and Tier 6-7. Yet the ones showed in the top left corner are "Tier 1-2, Tier 4-5, and Tier 6-7".
Though as I've understood it, there should be one level between every tier. So what's up with 6-7? Shouldn't they be 1-2, 3, 4-5, 6, 7-8, 9, 10-11, 12 or so?
For Tier 1-7 scenarios there are three tiers: Tier 1-2, Tier 3-4, and Tier 6-7. This is an artifact of Tier 3-7 being expanded to Tier 1-7 to make sure we had enough low-level scenarios. There is *usually* a level between tiers--the only exception is a Tier 1-7 scenario as laid out above.
There's an error on the Tier 1-7 chronicle sheets that I didn't catch until you pointed it out: the tiers listed under items found and in the top right of the sheet should be Tier 1-2, Tier 3-4, and Tier 6-7. This seems to be a copy and paste issue through the Tier 1-7 scenarios (7, 10, 12, and 14) that I need to fix and upload anew.
I see also that some of the 2-Tier scenarios have errors on the chronicle sheets mislabeling the Tiers. *sigh*
These will all be corrected today.
Specifically, there are tier errors on the chronicle sheets for 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 and the tiers are marked incorrectly on pg. 2 of scenario 9. Clearly a copy and paste issue that we didn't catch. Thanks for pointing these out.
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I'm not sure what the official rule is, but we had three level threes and three level 1s, we went with the tier 3-4 game because the three level 3s (Cleric, Paladin, Sorceror) were more than capable of keeping the extra Druids and Fighter up and running. We had one close call but otherwise did well.3x3 + 3x1 = 12
12/6 = 2
Your APL was 2, so I think the rules are to run that in tier 1-2. But if it worked for you, great. It's just going to overpower those low level PCs with all that extra cash.
Not really. If PFS scenarios work like LG ones, the scenario is designed to play for 5 PCs of those levels, so having a 6th PC is an additional +1 to the determined APL, so 2 + 1, so APL 3, which would, indeed, be the tier 3-4 rating.
Could be even higher, since LG also added to the APL for fighting animals.
From an old LG module:
To calculate the Average Party Level (APL), follow the process below:
1. Determine the character level for each of the PCs participating in the adventure. Each PC may bring one animal, plus any creatures gained from class abilities, to help in combat. (PCs can bring more creatures, but they cannot help in combat). If you deem that the animal bestows a significant benefit in combat, add the animal's CR to the level of the PC it is accompanying for calculating APL. (Animals gained from class abilities and one standard horse, warhorse, or riding dog for a PC with Mounted Combat do not affect APL).
2. Sum the results of step 1 and divide by the number of characters playing in the adventure. Round to the nearest whole number.
3. If you are running a table of six PCs, add one to that average.
I would assume that, like LG, PFS uses modules designed for a party of 5 members, so an extra PC is worth a bit more than his nominal character level, since he adds another iteration of actions and/or attacks. Especially since a five member adventuring group could, nominally, include one member for each faction. Heh.
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Calculate the party's APL (average party level) and that's the Tier they should play in.
Six level 2 characters are APL 2 and should play Tier 1-2. Six level 3 characters are APL 3 and in a Tier 1-5 scenario, they'd get to choose up or down. Six level 5 characters are APL 5 and should play Tier 4-5.
or can five level 7 characters play mod that maxes out at tier 5?
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I would assume that, like LG, PFS uses modules designed for a party of 5 members, so an extra PC is worth a bit more than his nominal character level, since he adds another iteration of actions and/or attacks. Especially since a five member adventuring group could, nominally, include one member for each faction. Heh.
That assumption seems reasonable, but it would be mistaken. In Pathfinder Society, a table with six PCs is not considered any tougher than a table with four.
In fact, if you have four 5th Level characters, adding another two 3rd Level characters reduces the average party level, rather than raising it. In either case, you'd be playing in the Level 4-5 tier.
or can five level 7 characters play mod that maxes out at tier 5?Calculate the party's APL (average party level) and that's the Tier they should play in.
Six level 2 characters are APL 2 and should play Tier 1-2. Six level 3 characters are APL 3 and in a Tier 1-5 scenario, they'd get to choose up or down. Six level 5 characters are APL 5 and should play Tier 4-5.
For official Pathfinder Society OP play, no. They'd need to play a Tier 1-7, Tier 5-9, or Tier 7-11 scenario. If they want to play a Tier 1-5 scenario and they're already past that scenario level-wise, they need to create new level PCs in order to play it.
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I have a related question.
I'm attending Gencon Indy 2009 and I don't have any Pathfinder characters, which means I'll be starting new characters at level 1.
If the scenarios at Gencon are for tier 1-5 and 1-7 (which seem like huge gaps in levels of power), will it make sense to play a level 1 character? How will PF accomodate this, will they batch a bunch of level 1s together and reduce the scenario difficulty or will they put level 1 characters with level 5/7 characters to somehow balance it out?
I'm just curious. And yes I've read the organized play handbook, but it wasn't explained there. Sorry if this is explained in the scenarios themselves, for now I'm just a player and don't have access to this information.
Edit: I guess you group level 1-2 characters together and accommodations are made for that tier level.
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I have a related question.
I'm attending Gencon Indy 2009 and I don't have any Pathfinder characters, which means I'll be starting new characters at level 1.
If the scenarios at Gencon are for tier 1-5 and 1-7 (which seem like huge gaps in levels of power), will it make sense to play a level 1 character? How will PF accomodate this, will they batch a bunch of level 1s together and reduce the scenario difficulty or will they put level 1 characters with level 5/7 characters to somehow balance it out?
I'm just curious. And yes I've read the organized play handbook, but it wasn't explained there. Sorry if this is explained in the scenarios themselves, for now I'm just a player and don't have access to this information.
Edit: I guess you group level 1-2 characters together and accommodations are made for that tier level.
Jason, thanks for your interest in Pathfinder Society! It sounds like this might be your first brush with organized play, and I can recall that I had a lot of questions when I started out too. I'm sure as soon as you sat down to play it would become clear how the Tier system works but I'll go ahead and address your questions here.
The Tiers are a way of adapting the adventure to challenge parties of different levels. You are correct that they aren't going to throw a 5th level PC onto a table full of 1st level characters. Although we are still in the "Playtest" season until GenCon, the way the Tiers are broken down currently are:
A Tier 1-5 adventures has two levels of difficulty. "Tier 1-2" and "Tier 4-5". An effort is made to get PCs inside of those levels to all sit together, but you will notice there's a gap between where the average party level may fall. If there're six PCs that average out to a 3rd level table, they'll have to make the decision whether to "play up" to Tier 4-5 (if they are confident or feeling bold) or "play down" to Tier 1-2 (if they are ill-balanced or playing conservatively). The combats, traps and challenges scale up at the high Tier, but so do the rewards. High Tier grants you more gold and access to more powerful items. You still get 1 XP and 1-2 Faction Points regardless of the Tier you play at.
Tier 1-7 is broken down with "Tier 1-2", "Tier 3-4" and "Tier 6-7" leaving the decision to 5th level tables.
Tier 5-9 is broken down with "Tier 5-6" and "Tier 8-9".
Tier 7-11 is broken down with... well, I think you get it by now.
As far as your question about playing a 1st level character goes, I assure you that a lot of other people will be in the same position as you and will be starting brand new characters of their own.
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P.S. Who should I contact about correcting an error with the modules that have been reported for Zestlian so far?
The player you had to turn away - how low was he compared to the rest of the group? I would probably let him play if the only other option is to tell him to go home. Keep in mind he risks a lot by playing up, so it depends on the spread.
To your question on correcting any past errors: any adventures you played before the season one conversion is ancient history. The tier you played back then has no effect on your current character. I would not worry about it.
For official Pathfinder Society OP play, no. They'd need to play a Tier 1-7, Tier 5-9, or Tier 7-11 scenario. If they want to play a Tier 1-5 scenario and they're already past that scenario level-wise, they need to create new level PCs in order to play it.
Okay... My friends got me to start playing on February 2nd, 2009 and all was good. I played modules and had fun with my friends.
After getting 8 modules under my belt, I played Tier 5 of Scenario 16: To Scale the Dragon on June 27th, 2009 as a 3rd level character.
After getting 9 modules under my belt, I played Tier 7 of Scenario 22: Fingerprints of the Fiends also on June 27th as a 4th level character.
Well, today we turned away a player from a module because his character was too low in level. We looked up the rules and after thirty minutes of debate it was concluded that if a module says it is for levels '5 to 9' or '7 to 11', you have to be in that level range.
So, as soon as I got home I tried looking up threads on this particular subject and this seemed to be the closest thread.
Just to verify, do you have to be in that level range?
If I've unknowingly made this mistake already, what can I do to fix it? Should I just tear up those two certs? What happens if I was one of four characters, do I invalidate the table? How can I make this right? HELP!!!
Jason W
P.S. Who should I contact about correcting an error with the modules that have been reported for Zestlian so far?
I personally am of the belief that unless a player is distruptive, you should never turn a player away. If the table is playing APL 11 and he is level 1, warn him of the dangers and try to be a little nice when attacking. Sure you will drop him a few times, but it will make it more of a challenge for the rest of the group to keep him alive. :)
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Also, we have at least a couple of modules running at Fields of Honor that are 7+. So we're looking to turn away 3 7+ characters because 2 6th level characters are being turned away. Seems kinda lame to me, but I can play the module when we order it locally. The only diffence is that I wouldn't be burning the module for the local club then.I'm really hoping to hear an official ruling on this. And, yes I know if I play a 6th level character today I am more likely to die than a 7th level character.
I don't know what to do.
Jason
A level 6 character playing a tier 7-8 adventure is not a problem at all. In fact, this is covered in the Guide - see page 24-25.
The only rule I can recall has to do with characters playing below-tier.
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Bump. Can a level 4 character play a Tier 5, sub tier 5-6? Can a level 6 character play a Tier 7-11, sub tier 7-8? I'd like an official ruling on this please.
yes, If the math adds up to that tier, but only if it is is only option and the player chooses to play up.
It is all explained very clearly in the pathfinder society rules pgs 24-25.
Calculating Average Party Level
In order to determine what Tier a mixed-level group of PCs should play, they have to determine something called their APL, or average party level. You should always round this number to the nearest whole value. Most encounters are designed with four players in mind. If there are six or more players at your table, add +1 to your APL. For example, if your group consists of six players, two of which are 4th level and four of which are 5th level, your group’s APL is 6th (28 total levels divided by six players, rounding up, and adding one to the final result). This means your group should play in a sub-Tier appropriate for 6th level, though since you added the +1 from table size, you can play in a sub-Tier appropriate for 5th level as well. We don’t want the above table showing up for a Tier 1–5 scenario, something they’re all the appropriate level for, and being told that they can’t play after their APL calculation. APL is a loose rule for determining your appropriate level of play—it should be followed as often as possible and broken only when following it would oddly bump characters from a scenario (as noted in the example above). Finally, if the APL of a table is in between two sub-Tiers (like APL 3 for a Tier 1–5 scenario), the players may choose to play “up” to sub-Tier 4-5 or play it safe and play sub-Tier 1–2.
Scenarios and Tiers...
Tiers are a level restriction for play. If a character is level 1, he must always try to play in a Tier 1–2 sub-Tier whenever possible. Rarely, PCs may be allowed to play “up” a Tier if they’re lower level than all of the other players. For example, Bob goes to PaizoCon and finds himself the only level 1 PC at a full table of level 4 PCs in a Tier 1–5 scenario. Normally Bob wouldn’t be able to play “up” but he can in this instance because it’s the only option for him to play. Players who play “up” need to realize that if they choose to do so, it comes with significantly increased risks. A player may always refuse to play “up” if that’s his only option. A player may only ever play “up” one step—so in Bob’s case, he can play “up” to sub-Tier 4–5, but may not play “up” to sub-Tier 6–7—though these instances should be rare.
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Zestlian,
It's a common problem, which you're facing head-on. Let me take a common sense crack at it, and then suggest how official PFS rules address your concerns.
Case 1:
So in the case of a Tier 7-11, where there are six characters (one 8th, two 7th, one 6th level, one 5th level, and one 4th level character), what happens? Should the entire table be turned away? Should only the 4th and 5th level characters be turned away?
In this case, the average party level is (8 + 7 + 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 = 37/6 = 6.17. Because there are six PCs, the effective APL ought to be increased to 7.17, which rounds to 7. So, theoretically, common sense might suggest that this party could handle a 7-8 subtier of the scenario. But, realistically, the odds are against the 4th Level PC making it through the adventure alive, let alone contributing a fair share to the party.
It would be better to find a 1-7 adventure and play at the 6-7 subtier.
Officially, only two of the characters could play in the 7-8 subtier anyways. And if the PFS organizers found a Levels 1-7 scenario that the DM was willing to run, the guy with the Level 8 PC wouldn't be allowed to play.
Case 2:
In the case of a Tier 1-5 table, where there are only four characters (two 1st, one 3rd, and one 6th) what happens? Say this is at a convention and there is only a 4 hour time slot. Are you really going to make the 6th level make a new character?
Seriously, yeah, I'd give the player with the 6th Level PC an iconic 1st-Level character, or an opportunity to design a new PC. There's no way that a 6th-Level powerhouse is going to fit in with a pair of fresh-off-the-farm characters.
Or, if this is a convention with a strict time limit, see if there's other tables that can be adjusted. Put the 6th-level guy in with some characters more commensurate with his own powers, and find a lower-level PC to team up with the firsts and third.
And the official PFS rules agree.
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The way I understand the rules, a character must be playable for the tier of the adventure. Playing "up" or "down"only involves subtiers. So, if an adventure is for PCs in a range between levels 7 and 11, then the PFS rules allow only characters of those levels to play.
Is there a Scenario with 5-6 and 7-8 subtiers? If so, then, yes, the 5th and 6th level PCs could choose to "play up" to the 7-8 subtier. But if the scenario has a floor of 7th level, then they're no eligible to play it.
So, in this scenario, are you saying the best move is to...
Yes, yes, we can encourage them to play iconic characters or in the case of the level 8, a new character... We are still kicking their characters.
Well, but that's what we do. I'm sure Josh will correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that PFS scenarios are intended for pretty tight bands of character levels. If you only have a few players, and their only characters are spaced widely apart, like 4th and 8th Levels, then there isn't an adventure that accommodates all of them. Pathfinder Society offers several options there: set up and play a second PC, or sit in with a pre-generated iconic. It doesn't allow for parties of widely mis-matched PCs.
And you've put your finger on a real problem, in my experience. Particularly in a small pool of players --like a regular PFS gameday at a game store, or a home campaign running PFS-legal scenarios-- when they encounter an unrecoverably dead PC. If the party is high enough level (say, 5th or so) there aren't anywhere close to enough scenarios that would allow the player with the 1st-Level replacement character to continue to play with his friends.
He said it was within our abilities to let him play as it's been done before, went and played his 4th level 4th edition character instead... Not cool in my opinion, but it is within his rights.
He was mistaken.
And, if I were to bare my soul, no great loss. I have a hard time imagining someone with that attitude being gracious enough with his newfound 1st-Level compatriots. (The hypothetical APL would have been 1+1+3+6 = 11/4 = 2.75, so the party would have played in the 1-2 subtier. A 6th-Level PC would bulldoze through those encounters.)
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The way I understand the rules, a character must be playable for the tier of the adventure. Playing "up" or "down"only involves subtiers. So, if an adventure is for PCs in a range between levels 7 and 11, then the PFS rules allow only characters of those levels to play.
Is there a Scenario with 5-6 and 7-8 subtiers? If so, then, yes, the 5th and 6th level PCs could choose to "play up" to the 7-8 subtier. But if the scenario has a floor of 7th level, then they're no eligible to play it.
Yes, the 5-9 tier has 5-6 and 8-9 subtiers. From page 24 of the Guide:
The tiers are:
Tier 1–5
Tier 1–7
Tier 5–9
Tier 7–11
Tier 12
Each of these Tiers has sub-Tiers. They are:
Tier 1–5: 1–2 and 4–5
Tier 1–7: 1–2, 3–4, and 6–7
Tier 5–9: 5–6 and 8–9
Tier 7–11: 7–8 and 10–11
Tier 12: no sub-Tiers
I agree with Chris that a 6th level character has no place in a tier 1-5 scenario. Any player who wants to keep playing tier 1-5 scenarios after their primary character reaches 6th level are expected to make a second character.
I also agree that 4th and 5th level characters should not be signing up for tier 7-11 scenarios at conventions.
This is Wonky math at best.
A) If you have a table of a 5, 4, 3, 1, 1, and 1. They are playing a tier 1-5 mod
15 levels divided by 6 is 2.5 which rounds to 3 add one so it's a tier 4-5.
................VS.
B) A table of an 8, 8, 7 and a 6 playing a tier 7+
29 levels divided by 4 is 7.25. Which is a decent tier 7 table.
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Table A) must play Tier 4
Table B) is an illegal table and doesn't happen
In the case of table "A" 3 players are playing 3 levels out of tier
While in the case of table "B" 1 player is playing 1 level out of tier.
I ask you, Is there a paradigm shift between 6th and 7th level in comparison to from 1st to 3rd? ...No definitely not.
Before someone says "the level 6 can play a prefab." Nobody is that altruistic, especially if a table of say tier 5-6 is running the same slot that they haven't played.
...Meanwhile table "A" is a TPK because half the table is 3 levels out of tier and one other can go up or down. So you 'really' only have 2 character 'in tier.'
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This is Wonky math at best.
B) A table of an 8, 8, 7 and a 6 playing a tier 7+
29 levels divided by 4 is 7.25. Which is a decent tier 7 table.
Table B) is an illegal table and doesn't happen
Why do you say that?
As the gentleman ahead of you pointed out, there's a Tier 5-9. Those four characters can play in that tier, probably at the 8-9 subtier.
For your convenience, the scenarios published so far for that tier:
Scen. 16 - To Scale the Dragon
Scen. 18 - The Trouble with Secrets
Scen. 21 - The Eternal Obelisk
Scen. 25 - Hands of the Muted God
Scen. 27 - Our Lady of Silver
Scen. 31 - Sniper in the Deep
So, I'd recommend having a few of these adventures available at most conventions.
...Dependant on *IF* one of those mods are available at the event you are at. It is also dependant on *IF* those mods haven't been played by any combination of the players beforehand.
EDIT: I just don't understand how a level 6 in a level 7+ mod is unthinkable. But a bunch of level 1's playing tier 4 is accepted and enforced in certain circumstances.
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This is Wonky math at best.
A) If you have a table of a 5, 4, 3, 1, 1, and 1. They are playing a tier 1-5 mod
15 levels divided by 6 is 2.5 which rounds to 3 add one so it's a tier 4-5.
................VS.
B) A table of an 8, 8, 7 and a 6 playing a tier 7+
29 levels divided by 4 is 7.25. Which is a decent tier 7 table.
*******************************
Table A) must play Tier 4
Table B) is an illegal table and doesn't happenIn the case of table "A" 3 players are playing 3 levels out of tier
While in the case of table "B" 1 player is playing 1 level out of tier.I ask you, Is there a paradigm shift between 6th and 7th level in comparison to from 1st to 3rd? ...No definitely not.
Before someone says "the level 6 can play a prefab." Nobody is that altruistic, especially if a table of say tier 5-6 is running the same slot that they haven't played.
...Meanwhile table "A" is a TPK because half the table is 3 levels out of tier and one other can go up or down. So you 'really' only have 2 character 'in tier.'
I will concede you have a definite point in B.
A however is where the rules are working to their intended effect.
You see if they had the 5 and the 4 at the table it would for sure make the 1-2 tier so easy as to not be worth playing for the level 1 players. The tier 4-5 would likewise kill all the level 1 characters and likely the rest of the table as well.
This is to encourage the player of the higher level characters to make up new first level characters. In organized play it becomes common to have a stable of characters to help make tables go off. Since altruism often doesn't work having rules to make the people that have a choice face the tpk now makes them do the right thing because of selfish concern for their character.
I would point out that as a judge at the described table I would ask the 5 and 4 to strongly consider starting a second character or find a different mod that slot. If they did not and forced most of the table to play way up then I would let them have it. The low level guys would get a chance to flee because they didn't cause this. The high level guys would likely eat the raise dead costs and also not get much in the way of the gold for the mod unless they got really lucky. If it happened soon enough I might even allow the rest of the players to continue the mod at the lower tier. The goal is to get new people into the game after all.
So the problem in example A is not that the tier system does not work, but that the player of the 5th level PC (and perhaps the 4th) is being a jerk to the other players. No matter what he ends up ruining the fun.
Cons and game days are great if you want to get in a certain mod no matter what. If you really want to play one character in one mod you will just have to do all the legwork to make a viable table.
Once you get to level 4 or 5 you should make up a second character. Then try to play each of them enough so they stay a few levels apart.
As someone who has organized 12 tables at game days in September I can tell you it is not as hard to get a balanced table as you make it sound.
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This is Wonky math at best.
A) If you have a table of a 5, 4, 3, 1, 1, and 1. They are playing a tier 1-5 mod
15 levels divided by 6 is 2.5 which rounds to 3 add one so it's a tier 4-5.
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...Meanwhile table "A" is a TPK because half the table is 3 levels out of tier and one other can go up or down. So you 'really' only have 2 character 'in tier.'
Depends on the scenario. The first two scenarios my cleric played were almost exactly this configuration. The three high level characters were barbarians and a druid. Then there were the 1st level bard, rogue, and myself. We survived both The Third Riddle and The Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch by standing back and letting the powerhouses take the hits.
The way many of the scenarios are written, the 4-5 or 3-4 sub-tiers just have more of the same monsters as the 1-2 tier rather than tougher opponents. It's not always true, but I've seen plenty of instances of 1st level character playing in those tiers and surviving just fine.