LO! Death has reared himself a throne. In a strange city lying alone.
--Edgar Allen Poe, City In The Sea
Extra! Extra! Read all about it!
Wolfgang Baur, Paizoan freelancer and Open Design Guru has tossed out a fascinating new idea.
That is, doing an Open Design Project based in Golarion. The idea is still pre-proposal, but the gist is a pulp horror based adventure based in one of the drowned cities of the Thassilonian Empire. This would be ripe with Lovecraftian horror and maybe Aboleths. Good golly, there's no telling what kind weird terrible junk the Runelords left when the ocean came flooding in. Ever wonder what happened when those Major Runewells sparked to life underwater? Now is your chance!
Wondered what besides Black Magga is waiting in the depths, here is your opportunity!
Does this mean that Paizo is granting 3rd Parties access to their IP? No, it doesn't. That doesn't mean that Wolfgang wouldn't ask, if the project had your support! Or, he might even propose it as a future Module if the Paizoans decline. All he can do is ask, right?
Holy crud, that would absolutely rock! What can I do to help make that happen?! First, post like crazy in this thread! THEN go to this thread at Kobold Quarterly and vote! Vote specifically for Lords of Lost Arbonesse, and then post a message saying "Wolfgang, I'd love it if you talked to Paizo and asked them if you can set it in Golarion!"
But! But! But! You say 'Open Design' as if that should mean something to me, is there something here I'm missing? Holy Deep Ones? You don't know what Open Design is? Here's the offical explanation!
You gain access to the Open Design site for the project. You can participate in the discussions regarding material. You can vote in polls. You’ll get to read design essays, the number of which are decided before the project is commissioned– though the topics are sometimes solicited from the senior patrons. If you’re a senior patron, you’ll probably be able to suggest an NPC or a monster and/or template. Senior patrons also often get to see the unfinished manuscript in progress and preview maps and artwork.
Regardless of the level of patronage, you’ll get a pdf of the final product and a pointer to the Lulu site with the option to purchase a hard copy of the project. This is an additional cost to project patronage.
Updates, information, and dicussion happens through Open Design’s LiveJournal Site. LiveJournal allows Wolfgang to assign permissions to those that are on Open Design’s “friends” list, which is how standard and senior patrons are differentiated.
Standard patrons will see those posts that their membership entitles them to see, and senior patrons will see those posts as well as additional posts rated only for their level of membership.
Through the comments section of each post, discussion is had between all the patrons and with Wolfgang. As mentioned elsewhere, Senior Patrons have a lot of pull, but those considering standard patronage should know that a particularly inspired idea can often be snapped up from the lower tier. A great idea is, after all, a great idea.
Patrons are required to obtain a LiveJournal account. These are absolutely free. Patrons do not need to start or maintain a Journal themselves if they don’t want. The LJ accounts are simply a way to assign permissions to who can see what, and to allow patrons to comment.
Sometimes discussion about future projects can happen at the Kobold Quarterly forums. That is done so that the general public can read freely and comment on upcoming projects. The day to day business of Creator and Patron happens at the LiveJournal. Sometime in the future, all discussion may move to the Kobold Quarterly forums.
Go show your support today!
PS: I'm to understand that Paizo has had the idea of allowing Open Design to do a Golarion adventure pitched to them. It may be too soon, and we musn't begrudge the Golem if that is the case. However, showing interest in a particular adventure concept never hurts, and they might consider it for an offical in-house adventure. Never hurts to show your interest!
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i say it is a nice idea... i was thinking more in Azlanti ruins, but since it wouldbe easier to work in the coasts of Varisia it may let yourun an adventure with low leel characters to high levesl (yes low level characters also deserve to se the world below the sea), from decent rules to dive below the water either using gnome inventions, or keeping one breath... to the use of low level magfic items, to anything in between...
I say "GO FOR IT!" I would love to see an adventure on and below the High Seas! Maybe pirates allied with Abolths?
I say "GO FOR IT!" I would love to see an adventure on and below the High Seas! Maybe pirates allied with Abolths?
The possibilities are endless, as is the likelihood of pulp action, adventure, and maybe even madness!
Why not post your support over at the Kobold Quarterly forums as well?
There are 'Things That Should Not Be!' as this is not one of them!
Good. In a really mind-curdling sort of way.
Wow.
Wow is the right word for it, Charles. But for such an endeavor to be possible, it needs your support. Alas, I can not attend tonight's chat, but perhaps you could bring the topic up?
Amazingly enough, when this proposal was first mentioned, it was for a more generic setting or perhaps even d20 Modern. There is sat at 2nd or 3rd place by a wide margin. Once the possibility was mentioned that it could be associated with Pathfinder's Golarion setting, it shot up to tie and then pass the highest ranked option.
It was an amazing swing of votes.
Does Wolfgang make dead tree copies of his patronage projects available?
Yes he does Charles, through Lulu.com. For every project that is always an extra option. Patronage pays for your participation and the PDF.
As an extra expense, he can get you a hardcopy. His usual deal with the OD community is that he charges his cost, to you. In other words no extra mark-up on top of his cost. But I'm always cautious about discussing fees, as he's the final determiner on such things.
(I'm a OD fan, not an employee)
But.. that has always been the precedent in prior projects..
I am VERY interested-and voted. Does this still mean I have to vote for president? Can't the commercials GO AWAY!?!?
However, to be successful it MUST include rules for using elves as fishing bait. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have rules for skipping halflings across the water's surface.
I don't know how to respond to that Krome, but I will tell you this:
James Jacobs once likened the Oliphaunt of Jandelay, to an Old One on the scale of Great Cthulthu himself.
Lissala, the Peacock Spirit, the Oliphaunt.. if these weren't the original creations of Wolfgang Baur, he certainly was the first writer to hint at them to us.
I tell you truly, friend Krome, if any one or any *thing* could skip a halfling across the water, it would be the Oliphaunt of Jandelay.
Probably skip all the halflings. Every last one of them. All at once.
If that doesn't translate to thrilling excitement, I don't know what does.
Kobold Press
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Lissala, the Peacock Spirit, the Oliphaunt.. if these weren't the original creations of Wolfgang Baur, he certainly was the first writer to hint at them to us.
I can take the credit/blame for those as my creations. I'd love to reveal some of their sunken secrets, either in a Pathfinder sourcebook, in the pages of KQ, or ... among the Lord Lords of Azlant.
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Lissala, the Peacock Spirit, the Oliphaunt.. if these weren't the original creations of Wolfgang Baur, he certainly was the first writer to hint at them to us.I can take the credit/blame for those as my creations. I'd love to reveal some of their sunken secrets, either in a Pathfinder sourcebook, in the pages of KQ, or ... among the Lord Lords of Azlant.
*pulls up an elf to sit on*
Ummm yeah, go ahead... we're listening...
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I am VERY interested-and voted. Does this still mean I have to vote for president? Can't the commercials GO AWAY!?!?
However, to be successful it MUST include rules for using elves as fishing bait. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have rules for skipping halflings across the water's surface.
ohh an rules to use the dwarves as anchor, that is what we really needtomake sure the shipdoesn't move at all.
Is it okay to divulge how much it costs to be a patron or senior patron? Is it a one-time (per project) fee or a monthly thing?
I say go for it! Pop the question to the people here at Paizo and see if they would let you do the project.
Is it okay to divulge how much it costs to be a patron or senior patron? Is it a one-time (per project) fee or a monthly thing?
One time fee per Project, for months of entertainment.
Again, I am loathe to say anything about prices.. however you can go to Kobold Quarterly main page.. go to the store link at the top.. and from there you'll see options for the current project (Tales of Zobeck, and Wrath of the River King- both of which are almost completed), which should give you some good ideas as to the prices at both levels.
Bear in mind, the projects usually have a decently high word/page count.
On a related side note, if you just want the PDF of the two projects finishing, there may still be time.
I say go for it! Pop the question to the people here at Paizo and see if they would let you do the project.
Wolfgang has asked, we must assume the Paizoians are thinking about it. We can only hope they'll say yes, and not hold it against them if they say no.
And they might find another way to do it that they're more comfortable with.
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Kobold Press
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Is it okay to divulge how much it costs to be a patron or senior patron? Is it a one-time (per project) fee or a monthly thing?
Patron rates are usually $25 for the early signups, and $30 or $40 for the procastinators. Typically, that covers you for about 5 or 6 months, as the project goes from brainstorm to outline to rough draft, playtest, edits and layout.
It's a one-time fee.
For senior patrons, it's a minimum of $75, and often rather a bit more, sometimes $100 or $200. They get various perks and inside tracks not available to other patrons, but I get the feeling many of the senior patrons chip in more than the minimum because they feel strongly about a project and want it to go forward with the best writing/editing/art/maps possible.
But honestly, if I were in it for the money I woulda given up a year ago. :)
Wow! I've been away from these boards for a while: moving, new job, new situation, new group of gaming friends, but this is exciting news. I for one hope that this open design come to fruition. I would be on board for it (my first one at that).
So I'll cast my vote whole heartedly for this.
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Is it okay to divulge how much it costs to be a patron or senior patron? Is it a one-time (per project) fee or a monthly thing?Patron rates are usually $25 for the early signups, and $30 or $40 for the procastinators. Typically, that covers you for about 5 or 6 months, as the project goes from brainstorm to outline to rough draft, playtest, edits and layout.
It's a one-time fee.
For senior patrons, it's a minimum of $75, and often rather a bit more, sometimes $100 or $200. They get various perks and inside tracks not available to other patrons, but I get the feeling many of the senior patrons chip in more than the minimum because they feel strongly about a project and want it to go forward with the best writing/editing/art/maps possible.
But honestly, if I were in it for the money I woulda given up a year ago. :)
$25 is a pittance (course so is my salary). I really really need to get off my fat ass and sign up for this stuff.
Watcher:
Sorry; I couldn't make the chat last night, so I have no idea if this was raised there or not.
It was.
No official answer yet.
I stuck my head in the chat room door last night.
Side note: The reason I don't go more often lately is I'm GMing one of my Runelord sessions on Tuesday.. I get back right when the chat is in full swing, and if I don't get to bed I'm wasted at work in the morning. The chat is a little hard on anybody in EST.
BACK TO POINT.... I would say at this point, no news is good news. If they came back with fast answer, it probably wouldn't be what we wanted to hear anyway. The longer it takes, the more they've considered it carefully.
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I would hope that they eventually agree with the idea of 3PP support for Golarion, but with requirements.
I can see licensing very specific items, not a blanket license, require oversight and final approval.
These would make perfect sense to me.
By keeping support limited to specific people they are able to assure quality and avoid flooding the market. By keeping oversight and final approval they can control content that may slide away from official content and may compete with their own products. And Final approval would be necessary cause everyone can write a real stinker every now and then.
On the positive side this would allow more Golarion product to hit the shelves, giving them a larger footprint at the stores. It would help spread the word about their world and the Pathfinder system. It would allow development in areas they are not interested in or have resources to develop.
BUT on the other hand with a brand new baby, it would be a little scary giving up some control and direction of their fledgling products, especially in a period still in flux and reeling from the 4E launch. It may be a period of still playing it close to the vest.
True,
But one would hope that Wolfgang would qualify for special licensing.
Not unlike Clark Peterson who often pointed out that whatever Open Licensing is/was available through WOTC, there is also the possibility of special licensing to individual companies like his.
(*albeit that remark is somewhat dated, I honestly don't know what his opinion of that would be today- the point still stands, its possible to grant a special license to one company)
One thing that strikes me is that Open Design Projects have been both exclusive and non-exclusive. I would wager Paizo would want it to be non-exclusive so that they could sell it in their webstore and to their fan base for some time to come. Just speculation.
$25 is a pittance (course so is my salary). I really really need to get off my fat ass and sign up for this stuff.
You won't regret it. The OD project quality is top notch, and the fact you can watch it develop and even contribute is a fascinating bonus, especially for DMs looking to improve their own craft.
Good natured bump.
The concept has drawn a lot of attention of at the Kobold Quarterly Forums. Please express your interest if you haven't already. :)
I'm not bumping this just for its own sake...
But Wolfgang had an interesting comment on his own forums on this topic recently.
The thread is here, look for the October 24th post
Interesting conversation with the Paizo gang at lunch today. Should have an answer about a Golarion license by November 6.
If the prospect of Wolfgang doing some licensed Open Design work on the topic of Ancient Thassilonian ruins excites you....
(Not to mention if you enjoyed the Payhfinder-licensed Osirian monsters written up my Phillip Larwood and published by Wolfgang recently in Kobold Quarterly #7)
..Then continuation of interest in this could only help further the cause. Let Paizoans know that you'd support this!
(Edited, corrections, sorry Watcher)
YIKES
LOL....
No, no, I quite appreciate it. I jotted that note out while on my lunch break. I'm sure Mr. Larwood appreciates it too!
On a side note, did you attend GenCon this year? If so.. I believe we ran into each other. I swear a remember a gentleman looking at miniatures by the Elmore booth.. who was wearing a Charles Evans name tag. This would have been on Saturday. The fellow was so intent on studying the minis when I tried to strike him up in conversation, that I decided to leave him be.
Might that have been you?
Watcher:
Only if by GenCon, you mean 'GenCon UK', of which I attended the first day (Thursday) ... :D
Ah, must have been some other gentleman.
But back on topic, looking forward to the November announcement.
Yes...
Further exploration of Thassilonian horror would rock.
I know a statue depicting either the Peacock Spirit is in one of the CoCT Adventures.. but it would be awesome to know about this entity, along with Lissala.
And there is this tantalizing passage from Pathfinder #1.
Though Lissala’s faith is dead, some believe her runes and their power may yet be restored.
One thing that strikes me is that Open Design Projects have been both exclusive and non-exclusive. I would wager Paizo would want it to be non-exclusive so that they could sell it in their webstore and to their fan base for some time to come. Just speculation.
If they want to make it happen, I'm sure there are ways to guarantee some form of exclusivity. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple. You can let the patrons have it for six months. They could get a level of manuscript or supplement no one else does. Wolfgang could write in Easter Eggs and give the codes/secrets away only to patrons.
It sounds very cool, especially if it has Paizo agreement.