This idea might be more suited to an expansion than to the main Pathfinder book, but I would love to see Clerics being able to channel other types of energy, rather than only Positive or Negative. Sure, Positive or Negative energy is appropriate to some Deities, but at for others it is rather forced (just as it has been in 3.X edition and indeed in previous editions with Turning).
To keep it simple, perhaps we could have 4 Types of Energy, associated with alignment and the deity would only grant the type to which the alignment is tied.
Good Alignment --> Positive Energy
Evil Alignment --> Negative Energy
Lawful Alignment --> Axiomatic Energy
Chaotic Alignment --> Entropic Energy
The connection between Positive Energy and Good Alignment and between Negative Energy and Evil Alignment has long been implicitly made anyway, but its ambiguous nature has caused repeated controversy, so we might as well make it official and be done with it.
Deities with two alignment descriptors would be associated with the more suitable type of energy on a case by case basis and the same would apply to neutral deities.
Axiomatic Energy would turn and damage Abominations.
Entropic Energy would command/rebuke and heal Abominations.
I have deliberately left Chaotic/Lawful outsiders out of the scheme, because Positive/Negative Energy also does not effect Good/Evil outsiders, though perhaps feats could exist to expand the uses of each type of energy to those creatures.
On second thoughts, the whole expansion of Channeling could be accomplished simply through feats to simplify this matter.
<snip>
Lawful Alignment --> Axiomatic Energy
Chaotic Alignment --> Entropic Energy<snip>
Axiomatic Energy would turn and damage Abominations.
Entropic Energy would command/rebuke and heal Abominations.I have deliberately left Chaotic/Lawful outsiders out of the scheme, because Positive/Negative Energy also does not effect Good/Evil outsiders, though perhaps feats could exist to expand the uses of each type of energy to those creatures.
Right, smite evil now affects evil outsiders, but channel energy does not.
This is an interesting idea, except that many aberrations are not chaotic. The aboleth, for example, is lawful evil. Even the beholder and the mind flayer are "usually lawful evil" in the 3.5e Monster Manual.
It sure would be neat if a Cleric of a fire god could channel elemental fire bursts!
Then he would be a wizard.
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<snip>
Lawful Alignment --> Axiomatic Energy
Chaotic Alignment --> Entropic Energy
This sounds unnecessarily complicated.
It sure would be neat if a Cleric of a fire god could channel elemental fire bursts!Then he would be a wizard.
No - then he would be a Cleric of a fire god!
It doesn't necessarily make sense for all Clerics of all gods to be able to channel positive/negative energy, turn/rebuke undead, etc. It makes perfect sense for a Cleric of a fire god to be able to channel Fire energy, a Cleric of an ice god to channel Cold energy, etc.
Clerics of all types have access to the Flame Strike, Clerics of the Fire domain have access to other fire descriptor spells, including some from the Wizard/Sorceror list, so how is this inappropriate? Seems like good flavour sense to me. Though it would have to be scaled appropriately to character level, and not overshadow Fireball.
While I agree with you that not every cleric should be a healer and positive / negative energy channeler, this seems to be the way PF is going, not because "it makes sense", but because "the cleric must be more fun to play than a healbot".
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It sure would be neat if a Cleric of a fire god could channel elemental fire bursts!
I've made that suggestion several times, most recently in this thread, which seems to have been archived. :(
While I agree with you that not every cleric should be a healer and positive / negative energy channeler, this seems to be the way PF is going, not because "it makes sense", but because "the cleric must be more fun to play than a healbot".
I agree. Thematically it would be best, but it might not work so well in play. That's why the alternative idea in the second post that feats could instead be allowed to expand the workings of current Channel Energy to other energies.
<snip>
Lawful Alignment --> Axiomatic Energy
Chaotic Alignment --> Entropic Energy<snip>
Axiomatic Energy would turn and damage Abominations.
Entropic Energy would command/rebuke and heal Abominations.I have deliberately left Chaotic/Lawful outsiders out of the scheme, because Positive/Negative Energy also does not effect Good/Evil outsiders, though perhaps feats could exist to expand the uses of each type of energy to those creatures.
Right, smite evil now affects evil outsiders, but channel energy does not.
This is an interesting idea, except that many aberrations are not chaotic. The aboleth, for example, is lawful evil. Even the beholder and the mind flayer are "usually lawful evil" in the 3.5e Monster Manual.
The energies would only be associated with the alignments not synonymous with them. After all, Channel Positive Energy hurts even good-aligned undead and there are some, though few, of those.
Perhaps Axiomatic and Entropic energy were not the best names to use, but I couldn't immediately think of something better. I chose to associate energies with alignments, so as to have a simple system that allows pretty much all deities to be associated with a relatively appropriate energy that could be channeled, yet avoiding a huge number energy types. The energies would not have to turn creatures of an opposite alignment.
Note: Yes, the system could be expanded further by adding the Elements to the channeling system too.
Perhaps better terms for the above-described energies would be:
Entropic Energy could instead be called Aberrant Energy or Deviant Energy.
Axiomatic Energy could instead be called Orthodox Energy or Normative Energy.