Paladin - A list of changes.....

[Vult Wrathblades]

This is what I am gathering that people want so far...

Good will save + Mettle (I love this, this should be a MUST)

Aura of good also gives some form of protection from evil effect.

Smite evil (people want more uses but that has probably been shot down, I want more uses!!) Other than that, x2 paladin level to damage. Last for an entire round, effecting iterative attacks, AoO and CMB. Then also some combination of, Stun, bypassing DR, Dispell...some other added effects.

Divine Favor = constant effect (YES PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!) Possibly starting at lvl 6?

LoH = x2 paladin level per heal.

Full caster level or CL - 3 (I like the - 3)

Divine bond being more frequent. The options are good they just need to be a little more available. I like the idea that the mount is summonable whenever and for any amount of time (but it is not to bad as is.)

Spells, possibly make these spontaneously cast.

I am on board with all of these changes. If I have missed something please point it out. I would like everyone to voice their opinions of each of these. Lets put it all together and get some numbers about what people like...yes? or no? or maybe?

[DougErvin]

To counter the suggestion in another thread for a permanent Divine Favor I would vote that Divine Bond (Enhance Weapon) a permanent effect with the specific blend of effects being changable when the Paladin prays for spells. Plus I have never been a fan of summoning a mount so I would rather have a permanent mount available.

Doug

[lastknightleft]

Oh hey, I can finally post here, earlier in the day it wouldn't let me, thanks for compiling the list here Vult, honestly other than the divine favor one (which I am not talking about because I am unfamiliar with the spell) If every last one of the changes were to take effect the paladin would still be weaker than the cleric or the fighter in their niche and finally be buffed enough to not be the red headed stepchild class.

[Vult Wrathblades]

Divine Favor is +1 to hit and damage per 3 lvls. I think if we added the addition that it had to be paladin levels and it was only vs evil, the constant effect would be fair.

then as you said with all those changes the paladin would still be weaker but not SO weak!

[Marty1000]

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

Divine Favor is +1 to hit and damage per 3 lvls. I think if we added the addition that it had to be paladin levels and it was only vs evil, the constant effect would be fair.

then as you said with all those changes the paladin would still be weaker but not SO weak!

I agree with your changes but the change should go further. Sorry that I am repeating myself on this point but The paladin needs to be a better fighter than a NPC of the warrior class. Give him divine favor but also give him an exceptional ability called "martial prowess" that is half the bonus of divine favor rounded down. It works against any opponent the paladin faces, regardless of alignment. The paladin is a skilled fighter and he should have abilities to reflect that.

Furthermore, allow paladins (who are trained, disciplined fighters) access to the fighter-only feats so that they can buy feats like greater weapon focus and weapon specialization with the feats that paladins get. Paladins ARE fighters. Let them fight and let them fight well. If someone wants a paladin who is primarily a caster or channeler then they can spend their feats along that path. And if the fighter's toes get stepped on, He should say "Oww. Thanks. May I please have another."

[lastknightleft]

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

Full caster level or CL - 3 (I like the - 3)

You know, I took a look at paladin spellcasting now that I'm level 4, turning it to level - 3 works in the long run, but gimps the low level paladin, who is gimped to begin with even more. As such I think it needs to be full caster level.

[JoelF847]

lastknightleft wrote:

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

Full caster level or CL - 3 (I like the - 3)

You know, I took a look at paladin spellcasting now that I'm level 4, turning it to level - 3 works in the long run, but gimps the low level paladin, who is gimped to begin with even more. As such I think it needs to be full caster level.

What about level - 2 then? That preserves the CL 2 when they first get spells, and lets them go up to 18 by 20th level.

[lastknightleft]

JoelF847 wrote:

lastknightleft wrote:

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

Full caster level or CL - 3 (I like the - 3)

You know, I took a look at paladin spellcasting now that I'm level 4, turning it to level - 3 works in the long run, but gimps the low level paladin, who is gimped to begin with even more. As such I think it needs to be full caster level.

What about level - 2 then? That preserves the CL 2 when they first get spells, and lets them go up to 18 by 20th level.

I could live with that. Especially if he goes spontaneous.

[Snorter]

UPDATE ALERT: A REVISED VERSION OF THE BETA PALADIN HAS BEEN POSTED BY JASON ON THIS THREAD.

Check it out, and save yourselves debating changes that have already occurred!