As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership? I would also suggest making them both optional feats but my primary suggestion is just making them feats.
This would eliminate the significant benefit which druids have with regards to this class feature by giving it as an option to all players.
Druids and rangers would get access to the feat at a lower level and a bonus to the animal companions progression but otherwise the class feature would be identical for all the player character classes.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership? I would also suggest making them both optional feats but my primary suggestion is just making them feats.
This would eliminate the significant benefit which druids have with regards to this class feature by giving it as an option to all players.
Druids and rangers would get access to the feat at a lower level and a bonus to the animal companions progression but otherwise the class feature would be identical for all the player character classes.
I could get behind this.
I could also see having half-level animal companions as a basic class ability, with a feat like "Improved Companion" that, much like a wizard's Improved Familiar, would allow an AC with full advancement. I think that might be my favored option.
I could actually see much the same for Leadership. Try this on for size:
Leadership = you can get followers
Improved Leadership = you can get MORE followers (since the base Leadership feat doesn't really help you build an army) and a cohort
Makes sense.
I end up with PCs who want a functional animal companion without being nature themed themselves. Let's face it, domestic animals exist, and they are the most likely to make good companions!
Making it a bonus feat for rangers and druids would be a great excuse to make ranger and druid animal companions equal. I think there is a general consensus that they should be.
I say go for it.
Creative Director
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Animal companions are a huge part of the druid class, though. And a relatively significant part of the ranger class. If we made animal companion a feat... that'd be the same as making channeling energy a feat, or barbarian rage a feat, or bardic music a feat, in my opinion. One of the things we want to do with PF RPG is retain class distinctions, not blur them. Class-based characters have been a part of the game from the start, and I don't want to break that down.
Now, a feat that improves existing animal companion power to make multiclass characters have better animal companions than they would normally could be cool.
I just don't want to farm out many class abilities as feats is all... that way lies the route to a different game.
As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership? I would also suggest making them both optional feats but my primary suggestion is just making them feats.
This would eliminate the significant benefit which druids have with regards to this class feature by giving it as an option to all players.
Druids and rangers would get access to the feat at a lower level and a bonus to the animal companions progression but otherwise the class feature would be identical for all the player character classes.
I actually think everyone SHOULD be able to get an animal companion if they want it. I have a bard in my current game who wanted a buffalo, and it's a headache trying to figure out if I should give her an AC, or make it an awakened fighter. A fighter should be able to have a bear steed w/o being a ranger or druid. Why don't we make it an optional feat for everyone, but make it a bonus feat for rangers and druids?
I actually think everyone SHOULD be able to get an animal companion if they want it. I have a bard in my current game who wanted a buffalo, and it's a headache trying to figure out if I should give her an AC, or make it an awakened fighter. A fighter should be able to have a bear steed w/o being a ranger or druid. Why don't we make it an optional feat for everyone, but make it a bonus feat for rangers and druids?
I don't see why you would need a feat for this. If the DM wants an NPC to befriend the party (whether it's a buffalo or a bear or an archmage, it doesn't matter), he can do so.
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Animal companions are a huge part of the druid class, though. And a relatively significant part of the ranger class. If we made animal companion a feat... that'd be the same as making channeling energy a feat, or barbarian rage a feat, or bardic music a feat, in my opinion. One of the things we want to do with PF RPG is retain class distinctions, not blur them. Class-based characters have been a part of the game from the start, and I don't want to break that down.
Now, a feat that improves existing animal companion power to make multiclass characters have better animal companions than they would normally could be cool.
I just don't want to farm out many class abilities as feats is all... that way lies the route to a different game.
Yeah, I'm with you on the Ranger/Druid iconic nature of things. I want the Ranger AC buffed (to parity with Druid) but if Animal Companion were to become a feat then Ranger and Druid have to be better at it as a class feature, which would require some balancing.
I have to say that if any class was going to lose Animal Companion, I'd actually rather it was Druid (not because I want them to lose it -- I don't -- but because I really like it as a Ranger feature so long as the AC is more powerful than it now is, where it becomes roadkill really quickly).
Also your suggestion on feat to make multiclass ACs better is pretty interesting to me.
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Now, a feat that improves existing animal companion power to make multiclass characters have better animal companions than they would normally could be cool.
I just don't want to farm out many class abilities as feats is all... that way lies the route to a different game.
GREAT IDEA! We need a couple good feats to improve animal companions, familiars etc. I would even extend this to include arcane bond objects. If a player is going to invest in an animal companions, familiar, arcane bond object etc, he should have lots of options to improve and customize them.
Here's another thought: there should be a feat that allows a multi class Druid/Ranger, for instance, to have one animal companion that uses the combined levels of the two classes to determine the strength of the animal companion, so that a Druid/Ranger 5/5 for example would have one, more powerful animal companion based on a 10th level character, not 2 lesser animal companions ...
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Here's another thought: there should be a feat that allows a multi class Druid/Ranger, for instance, to have one animal companion that uses the combined levels of the two classes to determine the strength of the animal companion, so that a Druid/Ranger 5/5 for example would have one, more powerful animal companion based on a 10th level character, not 2 lesser animal companions ...
That sounds more like it should be a feature of the animal companion class feature, to me.
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That sounds more like it should be a feature of the animal companion class feature, to me.
Here's another thought: there should be a feat that allows a multi class Druid/Ranger, for instance, to have one animal companion that uses the combined levels of the two classes to determine the strength of the animal companion, so that a Druid/Ranger 5/5 for example would have one, more powerful animal companion based on a 10th level character, not 2 lesser animal companions ...
If I understand you correctly, I tend to agree. However, I'm thinking that creating a feat for this might be less likely to upset the backwards compatibility apple cart ...
I don't see why you would need a feat for this. If the DM wants an NPC to befriend the party (whether it's a buffalo or a bear or an archmage, it doesn't matter), he can do so.
Because some of us want rules for it.
Here's another thought: there should be a feat that allows a multi class Druid/Ranger, for instance, to have one animal companion that uses the combined levels of the two classes to determine the strength of the animal companion, so that a Druid/Ranger 5/5 for example would have one, more powerful animal companion based on a 10th level character, not 2 lesser animal companions ...
It seems obvious that they should stack but strangely this isn't really very clear. Might be a side effect of the fact that there are a lot of multi druid rangers out there. Rangers are already sort of a multi class half caster/ half figher class. Druids as full casters don't multi class as often.
Lolwut?
I've seen that before. It's a nice article.
As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership?
On a similar note, there could be an Improved Companion feat to cover any other animals than the basic dozen available at 1st level. In other words, something similar to Improved Familiar, with caster level minimums to allow/disallow T-Rex and Dire Tigers at higher levels.
This would partially moderate the choice of animals at higher level, and by the same occasion, nerf the potential for abuse without removing the ability of having uber-companions thoroughly.
'findel
Here's another thought: there should be a feat that allows a multi class Druid/Ranger, for instance, to have one animal companion that uses the combined levels of the two classes to determine the strength of the animal companion, so that a Druid/Ranger 5/5 for example would have one, more powerful animal companion based on a 10th level character, not 2 lesser animal companions ...
I haven't patfinder rules with me at the moment, but it was already the case with 3.5. Ranger levels added 1/2 druid levels to determine strength of AC
from 3.5 under Animal Companion annexed to the druid class:
Class Level
The character’s druid level. The druid’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s abilities and the alternative lists available to the character.
As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership?On a similar note, there could be an Improved Companion feat to cover any other animals than the basic dozen available at 1st level. In other words, something similar to Improved Familiar, with caster level minimums to allow/disallow T-Rex and Dire Tigers at higher levels.
I suggested exactly that here. That might be the simplest fix that is palatable to everyone.
Yes, that would take care of a lot of the 'you're getting this with no cost' trouble, and I'm sure the pet-based players would take them.
As the title says what if the animal companion class feature were removed from both the druid and the ranger but added as a feat that anyone could take similar to Leadership? I would also suggest making them both optional feats but my primary suggestion is just making them feats.
This would eliminate the significant benefit which druids have with regards to this class feature by giving it as an option to all players.
Druids and rangers would get access to the feat at a lower level and a bonus to the animal companions progression but otherwise the class feature would be identical for all the player character classes.
After thinking about it for a long while I agree with Dennis. It should be a feat that is like leadership. We have two systems for combat NPCs to be cohorts that level up with PCs. I think the leadership system is the better of the two systems.
Animal companions are a huge part of the druid class, though. And a relatively significant part of the ranger class. If we made animal companion a feat... that'd be the same as making channeling energy a feat, or barbarian rage a feat, or bardic music a feat, in my opinion. One of the things we want to do with PF RPG is retain class distinctions, not blur them. Class-based characters have been a part of the game from the start, and I don't want to break that down.
Now, a feat that improves existing animal companion power to make multiclass characters have better animal companions than they would normally could be cool.
I just don't want to farm out many class abilities as feats is all... that way lies the route to a different game.
James, I agree most class features should not be made feats but disagree about animal companion for a couple of reasons.
First off, this ability came from a spell that was called Animal Friendship for 1st, 2nd and 3.0 editions. In 1st and 2nd edition there was no class ability. The 3.0 classes ability just let you start with an animal from the spell. The spell allowed the druid to have an animal and teach it tricks. Just like our PFRPG Handle Animal Skill does.
Second, the current system has been only used under 3.5, before that you just can have 2xlevel hit dice of animals under you control. The problem is people were swapping out animal as the character level to get the biggest thing they can control or the animals’ dies from one swing.
Third, it has not just been druid and ranger ability. Clerics had it in 2nd edition if they had the animal sphere and in 3.0 with animal domain. The Paladin’s mount in 3.5 is an animal companion.
Forth, there has been a class feature that turned into a feat. It was the only class feature of fighters in 1st and 2nd edition and fighter was the only one that got the class feature. The feat is called Leadership.
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First off, this ability came from a spell that was called Animal Friendship for 1st, 2nd and 3.0 editions. In 1st and 2nd edition there was no class ability. The 3.0 classes ability just let you start with an animal...
However, there's clearly a higher cost with PFRPG being different to 3.x than being different to 1e and 2e and even 3.0, given the objectives of the PFRPG. So whilst there might be arguments that it would be better this way (I don't agree personally, but I can see the points other people are making), to change something from 3.5 requires a fairly large resulting improvement in the game to be considered worthwhile because of the attempt to keep some backward compatibility. I think that giving the Ranger the same AC progression as the Druid is one of those things, because otherwise the class feature is effectively useless and Rangers aren't overpowered anyhow. I sort of like the '2 out of spells, AC and wildshape' suggestion but am on the fence over whether the violence to the pre-existing rules is too great for the benefit (on the other hand, it would at least be easy enough to adapt most druids in current material; just pick two and drop the third) although if similarly cool suggestions were made for re-balancing some of the biggest issues with Wizards and Clerics then I think it might be worth it.
Here's my adaptation of the idea -
1. Create a Feat that gives the character an animal companion/familiar/mount with advancement = to 1/2 the character's HD.
2. Create a 2nd Feat (Prereq. = class druid, paladin, or wizard, & the above listed feat) that improves the animals' advancement to equal to the character's HD.
3. Where the druid, paladin, and wizard currently have the choice between the animal companion/mount/familiar and other feature, they now choose between gaining both feats or the other feature. Where the ranger has a choice between the animal companion and the other feature, they now choose between gaining the base companion feat and ther other feature.
4. If wanted, you could create a 3rd feat that requires the base companion feat which would give you more animals to choose from as your companion/mount/familiar. You could also make certain creatures exclusive to the druid, paladin, ranger, or wizard class.
So, basically, everything would be the same as it currently is, except that any character could take a feat to get a companion/mount/familiar with advancement = to 1/2 the character's HD.
(Hope that's not too confusing...)
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So, basically, everything would be the same as it currently is, except that any character could take a feat to get a companion/mount/familiar with advancement = to 1/2 the character's HD.
But why would you weaken the ranger like that? I don't think that anyone thinks that the Ranger is too strong as it is, after all (indeed, the problem is that the Rangers AC as it stands is too weak; making them spend a feat just to keep it at that weakness and then another to make it better weakens the Ranger above the current rules).
As for the Druid, the concerns that some people have about them being too strong probably won't go away because they had to take two feats to keep themselves as strong as they are in the current rules.
Forth, there has been a class feature that turned into a feat. It was the only class feature of fighters in 1st and 2nd edition and fighter was the only one that got the class feature. The feat is called Leadership.
Weapon Specialization was also turned into a feat... actually it was changed from a class feature into 2+ feats.