Clerics are best at healing. We all know it. That's not the issue. The trouble is that the other healing classes are bad in comparison.
In my mind, the ideal ranking of healing skil should be:
Healing Domain Cleric
Other Good Clerics
Druids
Evil Clerics
Paladins
Bards
However, this does not appear to be the case. In particular, Druids are the worst healers. That's wrong. They get shafted not only on Spell level compared to clerics, but they don't have spontaneous casting or channel energy.
My recommendation is to take away spontaneous cure/inflict from clerics, replacing it with the ability to spontaneously cast from a list of spells determined by their domain (like the old domain spell lists). Also, Druids should no longer be a spell level behind for healing spells.
I'd actually kinda like to see the ranking more like this:
Healing Domain Cleric
Other Good Clerics
Paladin
Druids
Evil Clerics
Bards
Rangers (remember, they have some healing too)
Druids... yeah, they can heal, but it's an actual focus of the Paladin, and I'd like to see him be really good at it.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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And don't forget the worst healers, the celestial bloodline sorcerers!
As for druids as healers, I think the most people forget how much of a healing boost they can get from goodbery. At 1st level, not so much, but starting at second level, it lasts for 2 days or more (duration 1 day/level). This means that they can, most of the time, have a full day's worth of goodberries ready to take with them while adventuring.
So, at 2nd level, the day before leaving for an adventure, they can have all 3 1st level spells (including a Wis bonus) used for goodberries, which gets an average of 15 hp worth of stored healing for the next day.
By the time you make higher levels, you can have a considerable stash of stocked goodberries.
Taking Druids aside for a moment, then, what about the domain casting suggestion? As it is a Good Cleric of a War God is still a near-bottomless font of healing. If domain-based lists were used, it helps distinguish clerics of different gods. It also means that Healing clerics have a marked and dramatic edge over other clerics.
The existing (3.5) role of spontaneous healing is covered rather well by Channel energy. In fact, they pretty muich cover the same idea: That Good clerics are really good with positive energy and that Evil clerics are really good with negative energy. Modeling something twice is bad design.
If a cleric PC wants to have nigh-unlimited healing, they should take the Healing domain. If they'd rather shoot burning hands and fire bolts all day, they should take the Fire domain and rely on channeling and wands for spontaneous healing.
I don't think bards should be healers at all. They're arcane casters, where healing is always the province of the divine, and they're also somewhat schizophrenic in their spell-casting as it is.
I don't think bards should be healers at all. They're arcane casters, where healing is always the province of the divine, and they're also somewhat schizophrenic in their spell-casting as it is.
Bards are a class that has the potential to provide support in a variety of roles. Their spell list is actually fairly constructed when you take into account their party role, their skills, and their other abilities. Healing happens to be one of those roles, and I don't think that the Bard should be stripped of that role, even if they aren't divine casters.
I think all classes should have ways to heal themselves and do so effectively at all levels. Barbarians should be able to spend rages to heal themselves, fighters should be able to "take a breather", etc.
No offense, but that idea seems a little.. WOTC to me, if you get my meaning.
I realize that this is probably not the thread to discuss this topic in detail, but I would like to once again state that I think Reincarnate is a terrible spell that either needs to be eliminated and replaced with Raise Dead or heavily re-worked to make it balanced.
eh I don't want the 2nd wind thing, thanks but no thanks.
healers should be ...primary
cleric
paladin
secondary
bard
ranger
druid
the heal skill should really give hp back... not a lot but a few. someone posted some great rules in the alpha section.
I did some comparisons in Alpha 3 on healing of the "Healing" classes and their potential for healing
I know the domains were change from Alpha 3 but that does not change the ranking. The ranking is:
Good clerics with healing domain
Good clerics
Evil clerics (60% of good clerics)
Bards (46% of good clerics)
Paladins and druids (38% of good clerics)
In 3.5 and 3.0 the ranking is:
Clerics with healing domain
Clerics
Druids (63% of clerics)
Bards (58% of clerics)
Paladins (17% of clerics)
All the classes but evil cleric and druid had the healing boosted in Pathfinder. Good cleric and Paladins got Channel Positive Energy. Bards got more spells per day.
Sannos! Thanks for reviving your math.
Also, Druids should no longer be a spell level behind for healing spells.
IMHO think this should be discussed in the Magic and Spells - 29-Dec to 11-Jan session for two reasons.
First, both Animal Companion and wild shape may change. I would bet on Animal Companion/Nature Bond will change.
Second, You asking just to change three spells (Cure Moderate, Cure Serious and Cure Critical)
I am not so sure I agree with this notion. Druids certainly have enough perks at the moment and I am not sure that they need a boost to their healing.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I would like to see Druid healing boosted, but as Jason said above as it stand right now the druid class seems powerful. On the bright side the druid class is in flex right now.
Also, Druids should no longer be a spell level behind for healing spells.IMHO think this should be discussed in the Magic and Spells - 29-Dec to 11-Jan session for two reasons.
First, both Animal Companion and wild shape may change. I would bet on Animal Companion/Nature Bond will change.
Second, You asking just to change three spells (Cure Moderate, Cure Serious and Cure Critical)
I am not so sure I agree with this notion. Druids certainly have enough perks at the moment and I am not sure that they need a boost to their healing.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingI would like to see Druid healing boosted, but as Jason said above as it stand right now the druid class seems powerful. On the bright side the druid class is in flex right now.
I think that the core mechanic of the Channel Energy ability is being ignored here. What makes it so effective for Cleric healers is not that it is additional healing on top of the cleric spells, nor that it effects multiple creatures at once, but that it is Healing At Range. The effect of this core change to the mechanic of healing simply can not be overstated. In 3.5 healing at range could not be accomplished until 9th level when Cure Light Wounds, Mass became available, and said 5th level spell is pathetically ineffective compared to the channel ability of a mere 5th level cleric in pathfinderRPG.
Now, please don't misunderstand me, as a player who has been playing a Sun/Fire Cleric with Extra Turning since Alpha 1, I very much enjoy the added healing power granted me. However, as a player who is also playing a defense-centric fighter with a druid main-healer since the release of Beta, I have to say, druids are getting the short end of the stick - so much so, that with the current rules, any party which does not have a cleric as main healer might as well be playing with 3.5 rules. By this I mean - the purpose of pathfinder as I see it is to keep the parts of 3.5 we like, and eliminate the parts we don't like - namely the 15 minute adventuring day. However, any party without a cleric is doomed to the 15 minute adventuring day, and will continue to be until the other healing classes (excluding the Paladin, of course) gain some sort of Heal at Range.
I have one suggestion for the Druid for making heal-at-range available: just as druids now may choose either to have an animal companion OR a domain, give them a third choice - a healing companion. Such a companion could be a pixie or other fey, or perhaps some incorporeal animal spirit, but said companion would have no combat capabilities other than the ability to deliver Cure spells cast by the Druid. This would not end up giving the druid any more access to healing than he already has, and would not add more power to an already very powerful class (perhaps the most powerful class), but it would allow players who wish to play a healer druid an option to be almost as effective as the cleric, AS FAR AS THE MECHANIC OF HEALING AT RANGE IS CONCERNED.
I in no way believe this is the only way to bring some level of parity to the healing classes, and am open to any suggestions others may have in this regard, however, if we do not wish to REQUIRE a specific class for the healer of every party, some means by which the Druid can heal at range must be achieved.
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Paladin healing needs a boost to. The chanel energy is fine, but the lay on hands is useless except outside of combat. A Simple change like level x2 for lay on hands would make it useful in combat and keep the Paladin a decent healer.
Also the rankings should be
Cleric with healing domain
Cleric
Paladin
Druid
Ranger
Bard
Druids should not be considered healers because they reveir nature and the natural order. The natural order is downright vicious and doesn't lend itself to healing. The closest that nature gets to healing, is making a creature so danged durable that when it does take damage it ignores it. The only reason that a druid is considered a healer is because they are a full divine caster. Not because of their features. I am also against adding the healing domain to the druids list.
As an aside, I am however in favor of fixing the heal skills treat deadly wounds. This ability costs to much (because of its need of 5 uses of a healers kit) and is negligable healing to even be worth investing in the skill. If it healed a d4+ wis mod, and increased by d4 for every 5 you beat the skill by that would actually make it usefull (while still costly) make it grow with level (after all isn't there a fantasy equivalency for the healer who could bring someone back from the brink of death? "Magic" Max from the princess bride I'm looking at you). It would also give you that every class should have some access to healing you're looking for without going 4e's second wind mechanic. but this is a discussion for the skills section.
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UPDATE ALERT: A REVISED VERSION OF THE BETA PALADIN HAS BEEN POSTED BY JASON ON THIS THREAD.
Check it out, and save yourselves debating changes that have already occurred!