Level-Adjusted Races and Pathfinder...


General Discussion (Prerelease)


The school of thought for the core races seems to be 'LA+1 equivlent' which gives Tieflings Aasamir, etc the probable ability to be played with no LA. This is fine to me as a GM, but it does create some issues.

What to do about the no-LA races already existing with no boost? Goblins, Orcs, etc.

What about the '2 HD and one LA' races like Lizardfolk and Gnolls? With something big like an Ogre I can just shave off one LA from it, but these smaller things (and also more playable) seem harder to tinker with...one HD and 1 LA doesn't work really with the 'no single racial HD' things, and two HD doesn't nessecarily work out either, because with retooled classes, those two Humanoid HD look even worse...


Probably nothing atm. Those are monster races and should not be played in standard D&D game anyways. You cannot have a serious D&D game with monster races unless all the PCs have such a race and they fight against humans or something.


I didn't realise I'd been playing D&D wrongly for all these years. Thank you for enlightening me that "monster" races are bad and detrimental to game play.


-Archangel- wrote:
Probably nothing atm. Those are monster races and should not be played in standard D&D game anyways. You cannot have a serious D&D game with monster races unless all the PCs have such a race and they fight against humans or something.

I beg to differ, but my condolences on the bunch of juvenile jackasses you have to play with ;-P


Personal play-styles and opinions aside, I'm not entirely sure how to tackle this. The classic lowbie monsters, goblins and kobolds, do seem a little weak compared to the regular PF races. Now, as much as I'd like to give them a bump somewhere, I think that this would lead to a power creep. They're supposed to be the "squishie" races. Goblins are just weak and unchrasamatic* and kobolds are frail and even weaker than the gobbos. I wouldn't call it a "sacred cow", but if you beef up 1st-level monsters, they won't be "1st-level worthy" anymore.

Now, as for the tiefling, aasimar, and even the hobgoblin, I'd say keep them as is and drop the +1 LA. They seem on par with the new Pathfinder races. I would also simply drop the two levels of humanoid from the gnoll and lizardfolk and play them with just their racial bonuses.

This looks fair, but it's early and I may be talking out of my hindquarters.

*Bonus points for getting the reference.


Uratoh wrote:

The school of thought for the core races seems to be 'LA+1 equivlent' which gives Tieflings Aasamir, etc the probable ability to be played with no LA. This is fine to me as a GM, but it does create some issues.

What to do about the no-LA races already existing with no boost? Goblins, Orcs, etc.

What about the '2 HD and one LA' races like Lizardfolk and Gnolls? With something big like an Ogre I can just shave off one LA from it, but these smaller things (and also more playable) seem harder to tinker with...one HD and 1 LA doesn't work really with the 'no single racial HD' things, and two HD doesn't nessecarily work out either, because with retooled classes, those two Humanoid HD look even worse...

To answer your question:

LA +1: The general consensus (you can find several other posts in this forum, and others, with similar topics) is that for the purposes of PC's playing a monsterous race, drop one +1 LA.

no-LA: Just make sure they follow the +2/+2/-2 rule for all the core races, and I'm sure it will be fine. There was a post a week ago (?) that was debating what the stat bonuses for goblins should be. The one I think I liked the most was +2 Cha (for warchanters) +2 Dex -2 Int.

X HD +1 LA: The only rule for "dropping" HD I would follow would be the one from the Monster Manual. I have a lizardfolk in my game, and I let him drop the +1 LA. Its worked out so far, since the 2 HD still make him a +2 LA (thus justifying the +5 Natural AC, etc).


Hobgoblins, Blues, Aasimar and Tieflings would all lose their LA. Gnolls and Bugbears would lose their LA, but keep their racial HD (though gnolls should definitely be monstrous humanoids, not humanoids). All other creatures with +2 or higher LA should probably reduce their LA by 1.


What about templated races that have no racial HD and have a +2 LA or +3 LA? Will the LAs for them change now that the standard races are more powerful?


I doubt it. The races will be more powerful anyway, so the templates won't need to be reduced in "price".


Courrain wrote:
What about templated races that have no racial HD and have a +2 LA or +3 LA? Will the LAs for them change now that the standard races are more powerful?

I would suspect that since a "template" is still bumping a base race above norm, they are probably pretty much the same.

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