Ranger - Combat Style Feats

[Robert G. McCreary]

There are some problems with the Ranger’s combat style feats.

First, Table 4-10 lists a combat style feat at 10th level, but in the Combat Style Feat entry itself, new feats are added to the list at 11th level. Should this availability be changed to 10th level to match when the ranger actually gains a new feat?

Archery: Careful Targeting is no longer a feat. Perhaps it should be replaced with Deadly Aim? Also, why not add Far Shot and Mounted Archery?

At 6th level, Exact Targeting is no longer a feat. Instead, move Shot on the Run down to 6th level (it has lower prerequisites). Also, Many Shot should be Manyshot.

Improved Precise Shot should be added to the 11th level list, to stay backwards compatible with 3.5 Combat Style Mastery.

Additionally, I think it would be good to add some crossbow feats as well, for those rangers wanting to specialize in crossbows over traditional archery, by including the Crossbow Mastery feat presented in the Curse of the Crimson Throne Player’s Guide. Make Rapid Reload available at any time, and add Crossbow Mastery to the list of 6th-level combat style feats.

Two-Weapon Combat: Deft Shield is no longer a feat, but the shield option adds more versatility (just as crossbows do to the Archery style). So replace Deft Shield with Improved Shield Bash, add Shield Slam to the 6th level list, and add Shield Master to the 11th level list.

[Andrew Phillips]

Courtesy BUMP.

[Phil Ridley]

Rob McCreary wrote:

Additionally, I think it would be good to add some crossbow feats as well, for those rangers wanting to specialize in crossbows over traditional archery...

It would be good to add some thrown weapon feats as well. I have a Shoanti ranger in my RotRL group who's picked the Archery style but prefers javelins over a bow.

[Jason Bulmahn]

To the OP,

There are indeed some issues with the ranger's feat trees. This had to do with the fact that the feat chapter got reworked very late in the Beta design process. Anyway, please post these notes to the errata thread, stickied to the top of this forum.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

[Dennis da Ogre]

Phil Ridley wrote:

Rob McCreary wrote:

Additionally, I think it would be good to add some crossbow feats as well, for those rangers wanting to specialize in crossbows over traditional archery...

It would be good to add some thrown weapon feats as well. I have a Shoanti ranger in my RotRL group who's picked the Archery style but prefers javelins over a bow.

Well most of the 'Archery' feats are more or less generic ranged weapon feats (yeah!) so that's a big help. There is still a definite preference for the bow but my halfling sling ranger is looking better now :)

[Robert G. McCreary]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

To the OP,

There are indeed some issues with the ranger's feat trees. This had to do with the fact that the feat chapter got reworked very late in the Beta design process. Anyway, please post these notes to the errata thread, stickied to the top of this forum.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Thanks Jason,

I did post it in the errata thread, just listing the missing feats. I made this thread as well to suggest to possible replacements and additions to the feat lists.

[Diego Bastet]

Some feats toward the crossbow would be nice too. Not anything fancy, not anything great and all, since there are so little characters that specialize on them. Just one or two, to give some flavor to this overlooked poor simple weapon.

[guille f]

why the ranger don't gain perfect two-weapon figthing as a combat style feat at lvl 18?

[Arakhor]

Because Perfect TWF is an epic feat and you need a minimum of 21 HD to become epic.

[Freesword]

Diego Bastet wrote:

Some feats toward the crossbow would be nice too. Not anything fancy, not anything great and all, since there are so little characters that specialize on them. Just one or two, to give some flavor to this overlooked poor simple weapon.

Jason would need to come up with some new crossbow feats. The only crossbow specific feat I could find in the Beta was Rapid Reload. This at best opens up Rapid shot for light and hand crossbows, but heavy crossbows are still hamstrung by reload time.

Thrown weapons face a similar issue of new feats being needed.

A mounted feat tree also runs into this even though there are 5 feats in the mounted combat tree. One (Mounted Archery) is of highly limited usefulness. (I have actually played one time where this could have been useful which involved chasing a coach on horse back.) The rest are focused on charging, making them more situational and the last thing the ranger needs is more abilities limited by situational concerns. *cough*Favored Enemy*cough*

There may be enough feats to make 2 Handed work if you use both the Overhand Chop and Power Attack trees.

Sword and Board only has feats built around shield bash, so I don't have high hopes for this direction.

I think that covers the major options for Combat Styles.

[S W]

Perfect TWF should not be an epic feat in Pathfinder. Let "Crowning Achievement" feats for the combat styles be moved to level 18 or so. 9th level spells with metamagic are already pretty "Epic" by that level, you should give the melees some cool stuff too.

[Arakhor]

I can agree with that, though I'd want "crowning achievement" feats to be specifically listed, rather than just being another bonus feat.

[Jason Nelson]

S W wrote:

Perfect TWF should not be an epic feat in Pathfinder. Let "Crowning Achievement" feats for the combat styles be moved to level 18 or so. 9th level spells with metamagic are already pretty "Epic" by that level, you should give the melees some cool stuff too.

Well said. Very much in agreement.

[Oni_NZ]

Rob McCreary wrote:

There are some problems with the Ranger’s combat style feats.

First, Table 4-10 lists a combat style feat at 10th level, but in the Combat Style Feat entry itself, new feats are added to the list at 11th level. Should this availability be changed to 10th level to match when the ranger actually gains a new feat?

Just want to reiterate this point, under 3.5 the Combat Style bonus feats kicked in at 2nd, 6th, and 11th. At least for the TWF variant this gave you the TWF feats at the same time your iterative attacks increased. I can see what has been done for the new rules, and why (an even progression, 2nd lvl and each 4 lvls after) however this gives you your third feat at 10th, and fourth at 14th. This means that a TWF Ranger has to spend one of their standard feats or wait till 14th to get Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

Unfortunately I can't see a easy way to resolve this, having a even progression of the bonus feats is a good thing, but giving access to a third iterative attack on the off hand before they have the third iterative on the primary is problematic. I do think however this should be looked at as it does break the backwards compatibility somewhat.