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There has been a lot of talk about how using a shield isn't particularly effective, as well as talk about how the Combat Expertise feat has little use other than as a prerequisite. However, there may be a way to un-nerf both of them by changing Combat Expertise to the following:
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.
Prerequisites: Int 13
Benefit: You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or full-attack action with a melee weapon. Add an amount equal to your Intelligence modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower, minimum 1) as a Dodge bonus to your armor class for 1 round. Subtract the same amount from your melee attack rolls for 1 round. If your attacks are made while carrying a shield, add an amount equal to double your Intelligence modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your armor class for 1 round (the penalty remains the same).
There, now sword-and-board and Combat Expertise are viable, defensive choices and Combat Expertise mirrors Power Attack even more!
Comments and criticism are welcome. I know that the playtest isn't to feats yet, but I wanted to post this before I forgot it. I will do some threadnomancy once feats roll around, if necessary.
I like it as well and urge Jason to give this consideration.
I also agree this is a good suggestion and should be implemented in the final rule set.
Doug
I very much like the OP's idea, but I also agree that it stresses Int too much. What I'd prefer is that Combat Expertise be tied to BAB instead of Int (instead of Int mod as a max, it would be 1/4 BAB as a max). Same with similar feats -- I prefer a BAB-scale, rather than an ability-scale, because it ensures that warrior-types (fighters, barbarians, and paladins) get the most out of combat feats. As it is, a wizard gets more use out of Combat Expertise than a fighter, and that's just wrong.
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I very much like the OP's idea, but I also agree that it stresses Int too much. What I'd prefer is that Combat Expertise be tied to BAB instead of Int (instead of Int mod as a max, it would be 1/4 BAB as a max). Same with similar feats -- I prefer a BAB-scale, rather than an ability-scale, because it ensures that warrior-types (fighters, barbarians, and paladins) get the most out of combat feats. As it is, a wizard gets more use out of Combat Expertise than a fighter, and that's just wrong.
Hm. I like the idea of 1/4 BAB, but that seems a bit low. Then again, 1/2 BAB would be a bit high. What about 1/2 BAB, but the maximum that can be subtracted from your attack is 5 or 6? That would let it scale nicely, but not to ridiculous levels. I think we should keep the Int prerequisite, though.
Hm. I like the idea of 1/4 BAB, but that seems a bit low. I think we should keep the Int prerequisite, though.
Dunno about the fighters in your campaign; none of ours have particularly high Int scores. Certainly none have Int 20!
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I very much like the OP's idea, but I also agree that it stresses Int too much. What I'd prefer is that Combat Expertise be tied to BAB instead of Int (instead of Int mod as a max, it would be 1/4 BAB as a max). Same with similar feats -- I prefer a BAB-scale, rather than an ability-scale, because it ensures that warrior-types (fighters, barbarians, and paladins) get the most out of combat feats. As it is, a wizard gets more use out of Combat Expertise than a fighter, and that's just wrong.
As it stands, that is my biggest complaint about Combat Feats. Your note about the wizard is spot on.
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.
Prerequisites: Int 13
Benefit: You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or full-attack action with a melee weapon. Add an amount equal to your Intelligence modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower, minimum 1) as a Dodge bonus to your armor class for 1 round. Subtract the same amount from your melee attack rolls for 1 round. If your attacks are made while carrying a shield, add an amount equal to double your Intelligence modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your armor class for 1 round (the penalty remains the same).There, now sword-and-board and Combat Expertise are viable, defensive choices and Combat Expertise mirrors Power Attack even more!
What about making
Prerequisites: DEX 13and
Benefit: Add an amount equal to your DEXTERITY modifier (or your base attack bonus...)
leaving all the rest as thefishcometh said above ?
This could buff agile "swashbuckler" characters; also, Dexterity is usually a good third choice for fighter-type characters anyway...
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I like the concept of having sheild use improve combat expertise, similar to how power attack improves for two handed weapons. I also agree that INT isn't the best way to handle the Combat Expertise feat, but that shouldn't stop the shield synergy with the feat being adopted.
Dex would be better than Int, but maybe keep the Int 13 pre-requisite?
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Fighters are not forced to spread their points into INT just to get Combat Expertise. Just because a feat exists (Combat Feat or not) doesn't mean that all fighters have to (or should) take it. The stereotypical fighter should be about offense, anyways, not defense, especially since the PF fighter now gets Armor Training as a class ability. If this makes the feat better for wizards to take, why not? They don't want to get hit, so let them use it (though I question a wizard who is getting into melee often enough to make taking the feat worthwhile, AND has a high enough attack bonus to make his attacks hit with the penalty from Combat Expertise.
DEX already gives a bonus to AC. It shouldn't be used to give an even bigger bonus with a feat. It HAS to be based on INT for backwards compatibility, and INT has been used to good effect in similar class abilities in non-OGL sources (Complete Warrior's Swashbuckler and Arcana Unearthed's Unfettered). Let the big, strong, dumb fighter have a low INT and NOT take Combat Expertise. But let the lightly-armored swashbuckler with high DEX and more skills (who doesn't want to be a bard or rogue) have a feat that he can use too.
That said, I like the OP's idea of increasing the bonus for shield use. It's certainly more intelligent to use your shield for an active defense, and it gives those poor swashbucklers with bucklers a helpful boost.
Very nice idea of the double bonus if you use a shield.
In my games we use the old BBA version of these feats, with the option for custom tunning (actually, I use the old power attack -of max +6 however-, but with the chance of buying Improved Power attack; the same for combat expertise).
Now, I liked this idea of letting the double bonus apply to characters who use other things instead of actual shields. Maybe allowing a character to add double the penalty whenever he has a Shield bonus to ac -allowing two weapon fighters with two weapon defense use it, or wizards with Shield spell active, or anything like it- would make the Double Bonus idea even more interesting.
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Very nice idea of the double bonus if you use a shield.
In my games we use the old BBA version of these feats, with the option for custom tunning (actually, I use the old power attack -of max +6 however-, but with the chance of buying Improved Power attack; the same for combat expertise).
Now, I liked this idea of letting the double bonus apply to characters who use other things instead of actual shields. Maybe allowing a character to add double the penalty whenever he has a Shield bonus to ac -allowing two weapon fighters with two weapon defense use it, or wizards with Shield spell active, or anything like it- would make the Double Bonus idea even more interesting.
I think allowing two-weapon wielders a double bonus is a good idea, letting people use the main-gauche like they should. I'm loathe to give spellcasters any more bonuses, however. I like them fragile.