I spent my last fifteen minutes creating a post asking about a problem I'm having.
It was a nice post, full of humor about the various kind of trolls you can find in the net and all, and it was a call for help.
But then, came the terrible VOID TROLL and ate my post when I clicked the Submit Post button. The VOID TROLL (you write it with capital letters always) is a terrible manifestation of the troll spirit that you find on forums. This terrible beast is immaterial and lurks in the post buttons. It is hatefull of communities where other trolls have no place (such as this one), since it is created of the communal hate of the internet trolls!
Well, now in a much smaller post: I want help with the Shadowdancer prestige class.
-This has nothing to do with pathfinder: Can I post it here?
-This has nothing to do with bugs in the class: Can I post it here?
-I want to post here because this community is trusthworthy and mature enough, without the Fire Troll, Ice Troll, Jungle Troll ou Sea Troll I tried to mention on the other post (See: "Spoiler" for a brief description of this sojourn): Can I post it here?
I spent my last fifteen minutes creating a post asking about a problem I'm having.
It was a nice post, full of humor about the various kind of trolls you can find in the net and all, and it was a call for help.
** spoiler omitted **
Well, now in a much smaller post: I want help with the Shadowdancer prestige class.
-This has nothing to do with pathfinder: Can I post it here?
-This has nothing to do with bugs in the class: Can I post it here?
-I want to post here because this community is trusthworthy and mature enough, without the Fire Troll, Ice Troll, Jungle Troll ou Sea Troll I tried to mention on the other post (See: "Spoiler" for a brief description of this sojourn): Can I post it here?
There is a OGL/ 3.5 board... here but you can probably get away with posting on this board.
Oh, and CTRL-A then CTRL-C before hitting the submit button is your friend.
I will try to get away here, since my eyes are full of tears with the wealth topic.
And a sad story... I was very happy, typing my post, and then, I was thinking about the trolls, and then, the notepad "in wich I type" was full of humor. Then I did a great ctrl x, and did a better ctrl v here...and...well...I should have used the ctrl c... Blame the VOID TROLL, it charmed me to do this.
Now, my problem is this: In my gaming table there is acharacter, a rogue. None of my players is a powerbuilder, metagamer or anything, so, the fact that the player wanted her character to be shadowdancer came nicely around her concept and everything. Even with the option of re-training some feats to qualify for the prestige class earlier, the player thought she wanted the feats she had, and only qualified her char for the prestige class by level 9. No the character is level 12, with three happy levels of shadowdancer.
It is strange for me, however, how the class is...well.. lame. I can see that it is not a "only rogue class" or anything, and that many players like it. But except for darkvision and HIPS, the class seems "too much dancer, too little shadow" as said this girl who playes the shadowdancer. Still, she keeps the char in the class because it fits the concept.
Do you people think that way? The shadows are weak, and come late, the shadow jump is INCREDIBLY WEAK, and come VERY late. Damn, that shadow illusion is just...
Then, the character "gains" with the prestige class many of the things she already gained with rogue, except sneak attack, that would fit right with HIPS (as the assassin does). Now, I understand that some classes may benefit with the abilities more than rogue, but put plainly, and reducing to the point "it's a prestige class for rogues who want to be shadowier (if this word even exist)".
Could someone just give me some ideas to make the shadowdancer more "shadow"? I'm not that very much interested in power or anything (after all, my players don't demand it), I just want some more tasty abilities (maybe removing the "But look, on the level 9 f the class you will gain improved evasion, that you would gain at the level 11 of rogue!" things).
Anyway, creative people: Some ideas?
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Okay, here are a few ideas:
Delete the following from Shadowdancer:
2nd Level: Evasion
3rd Level: Shadow Illusion
5th Level: Defensive Roll
7th Level: Slippery Mind
10th Level: Improved Evasion
Add the following:
2nd Level: Can use shadow illusion 1/day per 2 Shadowdancer levels.
3rd Level: Can use shadow conjuration 1/day as a spell-like ability.
5th Level: Can use shadow evocation 1/day as a spell-like ability.
7th Level: Can use greater shadow conjuration 1/day as a spell-like ability.
9th Level: Can use greater shadow evocation 1/day as a spell-like ability.
10th Level: Can use shadow walk 1/day as a spell-like ability.
Save DCs for all abilities would be 10 + spell level + Cha modifier.
Caster level for all abilities is equal to your Shadowdancer level.
Nham nham! This is nice. I made a table with what the shadowdancer would be using your idea, and it seems very tasty to look at.
Now, I liked your idea, and I'm buying it (and not only out of desperation, mind you!!!).
Ow, one question, just curiosity: Those abilities are within the power level, right?
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Well, I figured them using the following. To be a Shadowdancer you need to be Level 5 (8 ranks in a skill means 5 HD). So I basically added the Shadowdancer levels to 5 to get a "caster level" and compared it to a straight sorcerer.
The sorcerer gets silent image (the basis of shadow illusion) at level 1, so that isn't a problem, that's why I gave it more per day to the SD.
The rest of the spell-like abilities a sorcerer would get at a caster level equal to 5 + the Shadowdancer level you get the ability. For example, shadow conjuration would be 8th level Sorcerer, or 5th level Rogue + 3rd level Shadowdancer. Since you only get 1/day, you aren't more powerful than a sorcerer, especially since your total caster level is lower. Plus, the shadow spells do less damage than the spells you can mimic, so you get options at the expense of damage potential, which is much cooler for the Shadowdancer.
The exception was shadow walk which would normally be available to a sorcerer at 12th level, but since it involves plane shifting it is pretty potent to have 1/day, so I put it at 10th level (15th level for your character).
You could even describe the abilities as "dances" - a summoners dance, or a elemental dance, depending on the spell you emulate.
Hum, good explanation. I took a look at the best rules for spell like abilities (the guides in Savage Species), and I couldn't find a fault on your reasoning, wich makes me pretty happy.
I just gave it a different approach: When the shadowdancer gains the greater versions, he loses access to the normal version, but can cast the greater two times per day. So, no 1xday shadow conjuration and greater shadow conjuration, but 2xday greater shadow conjuration. It shouldn't destroy my game, since those are some low-power spells (full of possibilities, wich is great for a rogue (c'mon, a shadowdancer is a Rogue, in the truest sense of the word) ), and follows the path some prestige class make things.
Besides this minor change, I've adopted it on my game, the player loved and took a look at the spells chapter. She then conluded that it's FAR more usefull to use these abilities outside combat situations, since the spells mostly gives the target two saving trows (will and another, for most spells, but basically will), and since she already has so many abilities, like the OLD HIPS+Sneak Attack. So I think this won't be abused.
So, very great many thanks!
Note: Know what she said to the other two female players of the table after looking at the 3rd level conjuration (summoning) spells? Translated from my mother language: "Girls, die of Envy! I can cast my own Harley Davidson once per day!" (...phanton steed...women...)