What's The Official Stance?

[Boone]

When working up variant classes and new races, what is the "official" stance for using feats and skills found in Pathfinder? My current project is a variant ranger, so I was wondering if I should have his skills listed as "Hide" and "Move Silently", or would it be OK to use the Pathfinder skill "Stealth."

Since my hope is to one day see this released as part of a 3rd party supplement, I was wondering how best to procede. For the record (and knowing the speed at which I work), I don't foresee the final product being completed until after the 2009 release of the Pathfinder RPG.

[Iziak]

Although I can't give an official response, it's my take you can use some things. I think that Stealth would be fine, since it is used in 4th edition and is a very common term anyway. So would Acrobatics and Perception.

Some other skills-the new once kind of developed for Pathfinder, such as Lingustics and Fly-I'm not so sure about.

Feats could be really tricky, since many of the new feats, like Vital Strike, I haven't seen used elsewhere.

Of course, I can assume that you plan to use the OGL to publish your book, in which case following the rules of the OGL would work fine. Paizo has announced plans for a Pathfinder RPG Compatibility Logo, but that's all the information that we have, so we don't know whether or not that will have additional licensing requirements for the use of certain game terms.

Also, I personally might recommend trying to hold off on the use of rules mechanics in your book until the final RPG is released, because if you want it to be fully compatible, you'd need to go over all your material looking for the minute changed that need to be made to upgrade from the Beta to the final.

In the interim between now and the release of the PRPG hardcover, it is my belief that you can write anything, as long as you don't distribute it in any way... over the internet or in printed form (except maybe on these messageboards, but in doing that I believe you forfeit your own right to use the material since Paizo can use, modify, and distribute anything posted on the boards).

Once again THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. I am not a lawyer, nor do I work for Paizo. These are just the guidelines that I believe to be accurate.

An actual response from Paizo on this would be nice.

[Matthew Morris]

My unoffical stance?

I have 3 classes I've designed, and two of them pretty much fully wrote up (Arcane legionary and Spellstalker) When I figure out how to make a PDF I'm going to find someplace to put them for download.

Right now they're 3.5 Once Pathfinder final is made, it won't take much to tweak them to Pathfiner. I'd take that route, make them 3.x and have notes handy how to make them Pathfinder for when the PGL and PSRD are done.

[TriOmegaZero]

My opinion? Include options for both 3.5 and PRPG. A little sidebar explaining the differences. They're not going to be so massive that you can't fit it in.

[Montalve]

Iziak wrote:

Although I can't give an official response, it's my take you can use some things. I think that Stealth would be fine, since it is used in 4th edition and is a very common term anyway. So would Acrobatics and Perception.

actually there is about 4 RPS (which i know directly and that come to mind) that use Stealth instead of having hide and move silently, or use stealth to group this(even if they divide it for skills)

[SirUrza]

Everything in Pathfinder RPG is open content EXCEPT the gods. So if you want to make pathfinder compatible stuff, have fun, post it online, do whatever.

If you want to "advertise" it as being "compatible with Pathfinder RPG" you're technically not allowed to yet. But if you're just a fan having fun and not trying to sell your custom stuff, you don't need to worry about that yet. :)

[Krome]

Well, the Beta has a lot of OGL material in it. As long as the material you are using is listed in the OGL available material you can freely use it- following proper OGL rules of course. HOWEVER, you are not able to say it is Pathfinder compatable or anything like that.

Paizo would prefer that no one publish or use the Beta for supplements, because there are many expected changes and it would just be bad for players in the long run. I know you said you don't expect anything to be published until after the Pathfinder release, but I would be reluctant to use the Beta for any rules, just because of the changes you will have to track down.

[erian_7]

To be more specific on the Open Game Content (OGC), the Product Identity section right under the Table of Contents and Credits notes all the areas you are not free to reproduce without permission. This includes gods, true, but also countries, languages, etc. Feats and skills are, by definition of the OGC statement in the Beta, open content as defined in the Open Game License (which you'll find on page 403 of the Beta).

The specific text is:

Pathfinder RPG Beta wrote:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, language, incidents, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content might be reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Game License and the d20 System License, please visit wizards.com/d20.

The Pathfinder RPG, Beta Playtest Edition is published by Paizo Publishing, LLC under the Open Game License v 1.0a Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All other trademarks are property of Paizo Publishing, LLC. ©2008 Paizo Publishing. Printed in China.

[Iziak]

Montalve wrote:

actually there is about 4 RPS (which i know directly and that come to mind) that use Stealth instead of having hide and move silently, or use stealth to group this(even if they divide it for skills)

Yes, I had thought that there would be other RPGs that used that also. It's just that I'm only really familar with D&D and Pathfinder (and the handful of games that I picked up at Free RPG Day).

[Boone]

Thanks for all of the advice. Since there was basically no contradictory suggestions, it seems like we are all on the same page. I will do it as a 3.5 supplement, and keep track of anything that might be different from Pathfinder. I would eventually like to see it as a Pathfinder supplement, but like I said, it probably won't be finished untilafter the 2009 release date. That will give me plenty of time to make changes when/if Paizo releases a Pathfinder SRD.

Thanks again to everyone.

[SirUrza]

erian_7 wrote:

This includes gods, true, but also countries, languages, etc.

Pathfinder RPG makes mention of countries or languages specific to Golarion? I don't remember that...

[James Jacobs]

Pretty much all of the Beta is open content (the names of the gods are about all that's not, If I Recall Correctly).

We're also working on some logos and legal text for anyone who wants to officially make Pathfinder RPG products, sort of like the older d20 license, but not nearly as restrictive.

We would prefer folk who are looking to publish actual product to wait until the final game is done in August 2009, of course, since the Beta's going to be changing often over the next several months; official logos and the like won't go active until then.

[Vic Wertz]

Krome wrote:

Well, the Beta has a lot of OGL material in it. As long as the material you are using is listed in the OGL available material you can freely use it- following proper OGL rules of course. HOWEVER, you are not able to say it is Pathfinder compatable or anything like that.

Paizo would prefer that no one publish or use the Beta for supplements, because there are many expected changes and it would just be bad for players in the long run. I know you said you don't expect anything to be published until after the Pathfinder release, but I would be reluctant to use the Beta for any rules, just because of the changes you will have to track down.

This is a pretty good summary of the state of things, but to restate it more officially:

All of the Pathfinder RPG mechanics are available for use under the OGL, but the OGL specifically forbids you from saying that your products are for use with the Pathfinder RPG.

Also, even though the OGL allows you to use those mechanics *right now*, we'd prefer you don't, because they are, after all, in beta test form, and we may well make 'em better.

Finally, we're working on a license that will allow you to use a special logo to indicate compatibility with the Pathfinder RPG; however, you won't be able to use it before the finished RPG becomes available in August 2009, and it will specifically require that you not use anything from the alphas or the beta that doesn't appear in the finished RPG.

[also, moved thread to Pathfinder RPG forum]

[erian_7]

SirUrza wrote:

erian_7 wrote:

This includes gods, true, but also countries, languages, etc.

Pathfinder RPG makes mention of countries or languages specific to Golarion? I don't remember that...

True, true...I'm thinking more about what I'd like to do with material from the Campaign Setting than the RPG Beta (include names, nationalities, etc. as part of an automated character sheet). Waiting for the community use policy before moving forward with any of that.

[Boone]

To Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Wertz--thank you for clarifying Paizo's official stance. I have no trouble waiting, and I have no doubts that the final product will, indeed, be much better than it already is (although that will be a tough task to accomplish.)