...has gotten a little bit shorter with the new skill system. I like this.
...has gotten a little bit shorter with the new skill system. I like this.
I agree. Having now translated 2 characters of my own, and helped translate 6 others from 3.0/3.5 to Beta, and created two out of whole cloth, I'm finding the only thing that is slowing me down is having to double check the skills and feats and characters to see if I missed something new or changed :) And every time I do find a miss, I find I love it!
I very much like the new skill system. The "roll ups" of skills into "common" groupings makes it a lot easier for both the GM in me and the player to figure out what skill to use or emphasize.
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Post monster ate my post :(
How much of this is due to the rule changes of skills and how much of this is due to skilled/inexperienced players or the limitation you may have placed on what resources PCs can build from?
I love the new skill system, but in my Alpha playtest (we're still working on upgrading to Beta) I had one player build his character in two hours at the table and another take nearly two days tweaking his. One used "vanilla" Pathfinder rules and no other resources, the other scoured every book he could find for the "perfect" feats and spells.
I'm not sure the skill system has streamlined character generation to the degree indicated here. While it's a nice change, I think it may have been other mitigating factors that caused the quick generation.
Post monster ate my post :(
How much of this is due to the rule changes of skills and how much of this is due to skilled/inexperienced players or the limitation you may have placed on what resources PCs can build from?
I love the new skill system, but in my Alpha playtest (we're still working on upgrading to Beta) I had one player build his character in two hours at the table and another take nearly two days tweaking his. One used "vanilla" Pathfinder rules and no other resources, the other scoured every book he could find for the "perfect" feats and spells.
I'm not sure the skill system has streamlined character generation to the degree indicated here. While it's a nice change, I think it may have been other mitigating factors that caused the quick generation.
Good point. We are trying to use the Beta with very few forrays into other books for the new chars we're going to use in Second Darkness, though for the translations we do have a few feats from other books since they were pre-existing chars (Runelords for one quartet, and Crimson Throne for the other).
The only other things we're going afield for on creation, besides a feat or two, is gear. We tend to use Aurora's Whole Realm Catalog, and delve back into older books for items we like.
But on the skills, I definitely felt it faster and easier to apply my points. Less agonizing over where to put some, since they were folded together and at first level, one point was all that was allowed :)
Post monster ate my post :(
How much of this is due to the rule changes of skills and how much of this is due to skilled/inexperienced players or the limitation you may have placed on what resources PCs can build from?
I love the new skill system, but in my Alpha playtest (we're still working on upgrading to Beta) I had one player build his character in two hours at the table and another take nearly two days tweaking his. One used "vanilla" Pathfinder rules and no other resources, the other scoured every book he could find for the "perfect" feats and spells.
I'm not sure the skill system has streamlined character generation to the degree indicated here. While it's a nice change, I think it may have been other mitigating factors that caused the quick generation.
Good point. We are trying to use the Beta with very few forrays into other books for the new chars we're going to use in Second Darkness, though for the translations we do have a few feats from other books since they were pre-existing chars (Runelords for one quartet, and Crimson Throne for the other).
The only other things we're going afield for on creation, besides a feat or two, is gear. We tend to use Aurora's Whole Realm Catalog, and delve back into older books for items we like.
But on the skills, I definitely felt it faster and easier to apply my points. Less agonizing over where to put some, since they were folded together and at first level, one point was all that was allowed :)
Gear is the slowest part of characte creation at level 1 to me. No one wants to leave the house without soap and a bedroll. Thank the gawds for Prestidigitation out in the field. lol
I hope PcGen with support for PathFinder will be ready very soon!
honestly nothing anyone ever will do can speed up creation if a player is Min/Maxing his character using several different books.
One habit I've gotten into was not buying books with "loads of cool new rules". Campaign settings, descriptive text, adventure modules, and cool artwork. Those are the ones I bought in the last year or so. Complete Races of Crunch just dont appeal to me anymore.
I used to have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. I lost it at some point. I loved that book. I have to try to find a copy on ebay one of these days.
I used to have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. I lost it at some point. I loved that book. I have to try to find a copy on ebay one of these days.
Check out Amazon.om. When I lost my original copy of AWRC during Hurricane Katrina, I was able to get another copy from one of the used booksellers listed there.
I just went to Amazon.com and found 17 copies of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog priced from $4.22 to $74.11. I will probably try to get a copy. I am not familiar with the book but if it is as good as I suspect from the comments it should be a good addition with the Magic Item Compendium and Arms and Equipment.
I just went to Amazon.com and found 17 copies of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog priced from $4.22 to $74.11. I will probably try to get a copy. I am not familiar with the book but if it is as good as I suspect from the comments it should be a good addition with the Magic Item Compendium and Arms and Equipment.
If you've ever seen an old turn of the century (1900s) Sears Roebuck catalog, the ones where you could buy ANYTHING, from horseshoes to houses (not kidding), that's what Aurora's is like. I also feel it was one of the best add ons that came out of the original Forgotten Realms materials.
It's AD&D 2.0, so you have to futz with costs of things, but it has LOTS of goodies that my playing group loves to delve into for variety of gear, and making for more personalized gear. Food, bread, cheese, spices galore are covered in just one small section.
I know one of my favorite items is the Rucksack - half the cost and size and carrying capacity of a backpack, but for those that don't carry much due to weight considerations, a godsend :) I highly recommend this little gem if you can get your hands on it.
I found it so easy to create new characters with this new Pathfinder Beta! I'm very pleasantly surprised... creating new ones is a breeze and a half, and translating old ones not so tricky either. The real trick is when translating a previous character and they have some broken feat from Complete Scoundrel/Mage/etc. or Races of Stone/Destiny/etc. and then I must decide whether it's worth keeping or not. Sometimes in the interest of party harmony, it's okay. Others, not so much. And some have just become obsolete... used to be that the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny was the favored pick for humans in my campaigns, but now that there is no such thing as a cross-class skill, that one is relatively worthless.
I'm trying to persuade my players to stick entirely to the Beta for the playtest period, but some like their little quirks... especially since one is playing a Warlock class from the Complete Arcane. I do allow some of the veterans to use the other books as sources, although as DM I have undisputed Veto power over anything that seems counter-productive to campaign flavor or Pathfinder source compatibility. And I have a house rule that they have to bring all source materials with them each game, or they can't use that ability that session. I won't hold up the game because Joe Schmoe didn't bring his Spell Compendium; if he wants unique spells he needs to be responsible to bring the write-ups with him to each session or he can't use those spells till he does.
Rejoice, for a pathfinder character generator has come!
Pathfinder Character generator, and spell list generator.
Spread the good word.
Sample output here:
STRATOS KOPTEROS
Male human Wizard 3
LG Medium humanoid
Init +5 ; Senses Perception +0 (+3 to opposed checks in dark or shadows)
==DEFENSE==
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 dex)
hp 18 (3d6+20)
Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +5
Defensive Abilities Dodge
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft./x4
Melee Dagger, melee +2 1d4-1 19-20/x2
Melee Dagger, thrown +2 1d4-1 19-20/x2
Ranged Shortbow +2 1d6 20/x3
Special Attacks
==STATISTICS==
Str 9, Dex 13, Con 8, Int 19, Wis 15, Cha 14
Base Atk +1, Cmb+0
Feats Dodge (PFB 85), Improved Initiative (PHB 3.5 96), Scribe Scroll (PHB 3.5 99-100), Weapon Finesse (PFB 97)
Skills Appraise +8, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +8, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +9, Profession (advocate) +8, Profession (bookkeeper) +6, Profession (teacher) +6, Spellcraft +10
Languages Common
SQ Arcane Bond, Diviner's Fortune
Combat Gear Dagger, melee, Dagger, thrown, ShortbowFALSE
Other Gear
Level 0: Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Level 1:: Mage Armor, Magic Missile
Level 2:: Minor Image
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Gear is the slowest part of character creation at level 1 to me. No one wants to leave the house without soap and a bedroll...
I don't remember if it was a 3E or a 4E book, maybe 3rd party or even a Pathfinder book, but I swear I saw where someone had organized mundane stuff into packages - get your Explorer's Kit with rope, flint & steel, 3 torches, etc. It was all priced into one lump sum with the total weight listed. I'm sure I saw this somewhere. And if I didn't, this would make a great free pdf suppliment ... and I want credit for the idea!
I used to have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. I lost it at some point. I loved that book. I have to try to find a copy on ebay one of these days.
Paizo seems to have the pdf ... link.
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I concur with the it being easier. I have a player who had sworn to never use 3.5 and they suddenly agreed to play when I offered up Pathfinder. Alright persuasion was used, but my boyfriend persuaded them by saying it was that or they could sit at home. He was playing Pathfinder and both people were very pleased by how little time it took to pull a character together.
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...has gotten a little bit shorter with the new skill system. I like this.
Ummm... I just don't see how they can make characters faster due to new skill system.
3.5 look and debate which skills you want to use plop 4 points +1 per level (or HD+3).
PF look and debate which skills you want to use add 1 + 1 for each level and then add +3 for each trained class skill.