Playtesting Human Martial Wpn- Exotic Wpn Clause Edition


Ability Scores and Races


I'm sure that someone else has probably caught on to this already but in playtesting we came across a particular lacking (to put it mildly) or flaw (to put it bluntly) with human fighters... they simply do not benefit from the human's Weapon Training feature. This is also the same case with any other class (whether NPC, new Core, Prestige, or otherwise) that would be proficient in all martial weapons.

Here is our solution-

Weapon Training: Humans are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to tose granted by class proficiencies. If the human character's starting character class already grants proficiency in all marital weapons (such as with a Fighter), then the human character is allowed proficiency with one exotic weapon of their choice. This weapon must be chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.

Does this sound reasonable enough?


Well, it sounds reasonable enough. But again, even Elves have Martial Weapon proficiencies (longsword and longbow) that become useless if you take a full-Martial class (like Barbarian or Fighter). If we "buff" Humans, we should "buff" elves as well (and Half-Elves ! They are the only core race that do not have extra weapon proficiency at the moment !!!)

The Exchange

The Wraith wrote:
Well, it sounds reasonable enough. But again, even Elves have Martial Weapon proficiencies (longsword and longbow) that become useless if you take a full-Martial class (like Barbarian or Fighter). If we "buff" Humans, we should "buff" elves as well (and Half-Elves ! They are the only core race that do not have extra weapon proficiency at the moment !!!)

Not quite true as they get to treat elven exotic weapons as martial. Human martial types don't get any Brucey Bonus like that.


hallucitor wrote:
I'm sure that someone else has probably caught on to this already but in playtesting we came across a particular lacking (to put it mildly) or flaw (to put it bluntly) with human fighters... they simply do not benefit from the human's Weapon Training feature. This is also the same case with any other class (whether NPC, new Core, Prestige, or otherwise) that would be proficient in all martial weapons.

Lacking with Human fighters? Fighters get all the martial weapons. This benefit for humans is for characters that Don't. So a Human Wizard can be proficient in a Longsword, etc.

Elves have had a more limited version of this (Longsword, Longbow) and no one had any problems with it not benefiting Elf Rangers...

Humans are supposed to be versatile, not extremely good at whatever class they take. Are you wanting a bonus for the human for every class the character can become? +1 BAB, +1 to all skills, +`1 casterlevel for school of choice, etc. ?


My philosophy: not every racial feature will benefit every class, and that's O.K.
.
.
.
.

  • Non-spellcasting gnomes don't get a benefit out of +1 DC to illusions
  • Non-spellcasting elves don't get a benefit out of +2 to beat SR
  • High-level dwarven monks and druids don't get a benefit out of +2 to saves vs. poison
  • Halfling paladins don't get a benefit out of +2 to saves vs. fear
  • etc., etc.

If you think losing out on the free martial weapon proficiency is such a great loss, don't play human fighters. YMMV.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

hogarth wrote:

My philosophy: not every racial feature will benefit every class, and that's O.K.

.
.
.
.
  • Non-spellcasting gnomes don't get a benefit out of +1 DC to illusions
  • Non-spellcasting elves don't get a benefit out of +2 to beat SR
  • High-level dwarven monks and druids don't get a benefit out of +2 to saves vs. poison
  • Halfling paladins don't get a benefit out of +2 to saves vs. fear
  • etc., etc.

If you think losing out on the free martial weapon proficiency is such a great loss, don't play human fighters. YMMV.

These instances also reinforce the favored class of the specific races. Since humans and half-elves have no set favored class, I think the current selectable rule is fine. If it were upgraded though, I think that it would be better to provide a list of a few exotic weapons to choose from, and instead of phrasing it as "proficient with such and such exotic weapon" allow them to take one of the weapons from the list as a martial weapon, thus accentuating that wording in their class. That way it's not actually a bonus feat, though the effect is essentially the same.


I allow it, but only if they pick bastard sword or hand crossbow as the bonus exotic weapon.
That way it's mostly flavor (1 extra damage over a longsword?), rather than supercheese like the spiked chain.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Here's a link to a two-page thread already discussing this issue.


We've gone with allowing 'Improved Unarmed Combat' as the free human weapon.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / Design Forums / Ability Scores and Races / Playtesting Human Martial Wpn- Exotic Wpn Clause Edition All Messageboards
Recent threads in Ability Scores and Races