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I wish that forums would start turning over user info to policing authorities in the user's area when they admit doing electronically illegal actions. I get so sick of hearing the 'justified' thief extolling how he in the right and passing on that POV to the messageboards with pride. You wanna look at book to decide if you wish to buy it, then walk into a store and flip through it or look at the reviews of a product or read an excerpt provided by the manufacturer of the book. A person commits an illegal act then 'promises' that they delete the illegal product afterwards and expects to retain credibility.
Please take a moment to consider the actual effects of what you are proposing.
I'll just say I hope you weren't being serious and leave it at that.
No, I am serious. The effects would be that idiots would stop bragging about doing these acts and influencing others to do them by justifying that it isn't bad because they are 'honest'.
Some people have a serious disconnect in the personal responsibility area and should be held accountable for their actions.If you are worried about a 'big brother' type of policing then I feel that is a bit 'conspiracy theory'-ish. A person who admits to a crime should be investigated. If someone walked up to me and admitted to taking someone's stuff, I would call the police. Same theory here.
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I wish that forums would start turning over user info to policing authorities in the user's area when they admit doing electronically illegal actions. I get so sick of hearing the 'justified' thief extolling how he in the right and passing on that POV to the messageboards with pride. You wanna look at book to decide if you wish to buy it, then walk into a store and flip through it or look at the reviews of a product or read an excerpt provided by the manufacturer of the book. A person commits an illegal act then 'promises' that they delete the illegal product afterwards and expects to retain credibility.I am not apologizing for my actions, nor am I saying that what I did is necessarily in the 'right'. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on this subject.
I am ok with my decision. I know that I am going to delete it. If I wasn't going to, I wouldn't have even brought up the point. No offense to any of the posters here (I respect the majority of you a lot), I really have nothing to hide and/or prove.
Why wait for the forums to start turning people in? You have my user name...it's not an alias. Feel free...the copyright police can come and peruse my crate of legally purchased D&D products. The can search my computer and discover only pdf versions of the the same legally purchased products.
Well, the law isn't actually a matter of opinion a lot of the time. You might not like being called out on it, and it might not be crime of the century, but it's still illegal, like getting pirated DVD or something, so getting self-righteous when you have been correctly called out is not entirely appropriate. But look on the bright side - the website you got it from probably also downloaded spyware or a virus or two on your machine.
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Either they set their original sights low (unlikely), or 4E is, in fact, doing well.Or they're lying. We know how incredibly honest they are with their fanbase, after all... "Oh no, we have nooooo plans for a new edition, not at all! *psst, hey, how's the playtesting going on 4E?*"
This is really getting old. WotC did not lie. Some guy says something to the effect of "I don't think its coming any time soon" and plans changed. That is not a lie.
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[threadjack]Update request: Please let the rest of the world know when the USA is done with the 'right to privacy' and 'freedom of speech'. Apparently you aren't using them as much as you used to and don't respect them all that much. Frankly, we're jealous that those two values still hang out at your place no matter how poorly you treat them. They are welcome to visit the rest of us seeing you don't care about them anymore. We have cookies ... maple syrup cookies.[/threadjack]
Thank you for not understanding the legal basis of either of those principles.
You do not have any expectation of privacy for an act committed in public. An internet forum is not a confessional or a consultation with a professional, no matter how many clergy, lawyers, doctors, or accountants are also on the list. If you declare the commission or the intention to commit a crime on one you have only yourself to blame for your public confession.The intent of freedom of speech is to permit people to dissent against government policies and advocate for alternatives, as well as to permit religious dissent. Sadly those have been all but lost over the years with the rush to gain sanction for slander and libel, as well as a shield for commercial advocates masquerading as reporters to conceal the identities of criminals and distract from their slander and libel. Most directly relevant though is that it in no way shields you from self-incrimination. Just as there is a right to freedom of speech there is a right against self-incrimination. They are not contradictory in purpose, they are merely incompatible in certain executions. You are quite free to confess as much as you like, and you are equally free to shut your mouth and leave it to the state to prove your trangressions through its efforts.
The best way to destroy rights is to abuse and misues them. Apparently you have so little experience with them you have trouble understanding just what they are and how they function. It would therefore be irresponsible to let them visit as you would not be able to properly care for them.
Well, the law isn't actually a matter of opinion a lot of the time. You might not like being called out on it, and it might not be crime of the century, but it's still illegal, like getting pirated DVD or something, so getting self-righteous when you have been correctly called out is not entirely appropriate. But look on the bright side - the website you got it from probably also downloaded spyware or a virus or two on your machine.
Well, there is always a bright side :)
I wasn't trying to get self-righteous...I apologize if that's how it came off. Self-righteous means thinking that I am more moralistic then others. I don't. I believe that I am, over-all, a moral person. If Fake Healer doesn't believe or agree, that is his perogative. But he didn't call me out on anything. I never said what I was doing wasn't illegal. I know that it is. But I know that I delete the copies of stuff that I am not going to buy. Again, if people choose not to believe me, that is their business. But if they choose not to beleive me and post comments to that effect, I don't think it is self-righteous to defend myself.
So, in summary (tend to ramble, sorry): Not defending my actions...am defending my statement that I don't keep the files...
If this falls below certain people's moral standards, I am sorry that any reputation I might have garnered on this board may be reduced. But I can live with that.
I wish that forums would start turning over user info to policing authorities...
Please take a moment to consider the actual effects of what you are proposing.
I'll just say I hope you weren't being serious and leave it at that.
No, I am serious. The effects would be that idiots would stop bragging about doing these acts and influencing others to do them by justifying that it isn't bad because they are 'honest'.
Some people have a serious disconnect in the personal responsibility area and should be held accountable for their actions.
If you are worried about a 'big brother' type of policing then I feel that is a bit 'conspiracy theory'-ish. A person who admits to a crime should be investigated. If someone walked up to me and admitted to taking someone's stuff, I would call the police. Same theory here.
(1) What Larry did was illegal. That is objective fact. I do not believe what he did was unethical. You apparently do. Those are opinions. Are you proposing we report each other for every infraction, irrespective of whether we feel it is immoral? Or is it just that you are willing to assume your morality is objectively correct?
(2) What is to stop Larry from simply denying he actually did those things, and was only playing devil's advocate? How do you imagine it would be worth incurring the huge expense of getting a search warrant, performing a search, and documenting all the evidence and taking it to trial? What happens when someone mad at someone else files a false report?
(3) I am frightened by the amount of power you seem happy to cede to "authorities." It is naive to believe that it will never be abused when there is overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary, no conspiracy theories required.
Frankly, you scare me.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ahem, back on topic...
If I'm reading the press release, WotC is shifting resources to strengthen DDM, Magic online, and DDI? Wonder if this is tied to the forthcoming 'new and improved GSL'. IOW, maybe their dead tree product line bit off more than they can chew and they're going to outsource licenses to generate revenue?
We know they're killing a novel line or two.
James,
You are right. My apologies...to you and the OP.
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Strangely it may be the solid sales of 4e that is leading to cuts. Companies often refocus when they see a spike in one area and a dip in another. The key will be to see who gets shuffled and who gets dropped.No, I think this reorganization, just like the previously announced shift in their book lines, has one and only one source:
The failure of DDI to be generating income.Every time anyone reads "core product" in a WotC press release these days they should immediately translate that into "Magic Online and DDI".
Don't forget D&D Miniatures.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Hey, I understand the business model: you need to focus on what makes you money. But it's odd to me that right after Wizards launches an edition, especially after said edition seems to be selling within acceptable parameters, that's the moment they decide to layoff people. Happened with 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0. Seems like working on a new edition is the kiss of death with this company. Of course, in the 3.0 days, we got a great many excellent 3rd party publishers out of the arrangement, (and here's hoping the GSL eventually gets reset to an acceptable level of usefulness). Now, we just get out of work designers.
Makes you wonder.
(1) 4E is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in LFR, and it was packed.
(2) Paizo is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in Pathfinder society, and it was also packed.
(3) Companies re-organize all the time. The timing/process of this reorganization often seems arbitrary and irrational (and sometimes is).
I think trying to read something about 4E's success into WOTC's announcement is futile, but more power to those who wish to try.
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Don't forget D&D Miniatures.Oops. Quite true.
"Magic Online, DDI, and DDM."
Now you've done it. Erik has to lock the thread.
Curse you, DDM!
Since Erik is silent on the subject, I am going to propose he hates mention of DDM because it drains his finances every time he has buy boosters. Spread the libel!
My only question is: will the forums reset your name to THIEF, and next time you go into an FLGS, will the shopkeeper kill you with a laser beam?
I just wanted to make sure INUH didn't feel all alone: Me and my ocarina got the reference.
Here's a request to treat the subject of layoffs seriously. Some of our friends are feeling low right now.
Mike
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Fiscal years don't end in December. Weird accounting practices make fiscal years end sometime around September if I remember right.I think it's 'end of fisical year reshuffling'Then it would be coming in early December. WotC had rounds of layoffs the end of the year after the release of 3E and 3.5, so I was expecting this two weeks after Thanksgiving. Coming now? (Two days after they get back from Gen Con!)
I would wonder if someone in Pawtucket is seriously unhappy about the state of DDI and the heads have started rolling early.
I guess we will know in another week or so when a new crop of "fresh from WotC R&D!" freelancers start appearing.the government's fiscal year ends in september. corporations end it whenever they feel like ending it for their purposes. corps pay their taxes quarterly (generally speaking, some llp's and llc's and non-profits aren't required to, but i think all "b" and "c" corps do), so they aren't beholden to the fed govt model.
i don't know how hasbro tracks their fiscal year, so maybe they do end it in september.
i do think, however, things aren't as rosy in renton as some would have us believe...
Publically traded companies are tied to the tax year and the quarter. In general we budget by the year and execute by the quarter based on our overall performance to budget and analysts expectation.
This points to realignment because of a shift in strategic focus or failure to perform economically. As my job has been to implement and design these changes at several media companies, I speak with fair comfort and authority on this issue.
Print may be doing well. We really do not know. However the DDI revenue stream has clearly not materialized.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
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Corporate restructures are unfortunately an unavoidable part of a recession economy. Even if D&D is doing well, it might not be doing "well enough". That said, this could also be a restructure centered around trying to help the company as a whole and not the D&D brand specifically. It is a sad truth, but big companies do layoffs and do them often. One of the big reliefs for me in Lisa saying that Paizo wants to remain small is that smaller companies can insulate themselves from this problem a bit because they can operate on smaller profit margins. The bigger you get, the harder it is to make that bottom line look acceptable to share holders.
I am not playing 4e nor do I plan to in the future. That said, my heart goes out to all the folks at WotC who might be losing their jobs. A layoff is the sort of thing that can completely alter your life. I've only ever been layed off once, but it forced me to go back to school in a different field and made our family start to competely rethink how we handle our finances. Now days, I make sure that we live on no more than 90% of our actual take home income so that there is always a little fudge room if something bad happens. I've also started an emergency savings account for the first time in my life that is strictly for the purpose of "if one of us gets laid off". We only have a months income in there now, but my plan is to get it up to 3 months worth minimum so that if one of us gets laid off we will have a few months to find a job before we are in serious trouble.
The gaming industry is a small one on average and I am sure that a lot of friends and family of some really great people are facing a very difficult future if their jobs are being cut. I hope the impact is minimal and that those who do lose their jobs are able to find work soon.
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(1) 4E is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in LFR, and it was packed.
(2) Paizo is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in Pathfinder society, and it was also packed.
(3) Companies re-organize all the time. The timing/process of this reorganization often seems arbitrary and irrational (and sometimes is).I think trying to read something about 4E's success into WOTC's announcement is futile, but more power to those who wish to try.
Thanks for succinctly summarizing what's most likely going on.
Publically traded companies are tied to the tax year and the quarter. In general we budget by the year and execute by the quarter based on our overall performance to budget and analysts expectation.This points to realignment because of a shift in strategic focus or failure to perform economically. As my job has been to implement and design these changes at several media companies, I speak with fair comfort and authority on this issue.
Print may be doing well. We really do not know. However the DDI revenue stream has clearly not materialized.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
DDI revenue must be an area of concern for them. Honestly, their recent decision to start charging a reduced rate for what is now available must have been a result of that division trying to show some revenue/progress. No revenue makes it easy to decide to axe a whole division/department. Even showing some sort of revenue makes that decision a lot harder.
Not being involved in the actual game-design/launch process, could these lay-offs be the result of staff/positions needed prior to the Go-live no longer being needed post Go-Live?
Mike, have you heard any news on what divisions are being affected?
Sorry, not something I'll discuss.
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The total cynic in me sees this as the software model. Software companies are infamous for hiring new talent, strip mining them of their ideas, and then kicking them to the curb once they have extracted I.P. off of the new talent.
My fear for many of the good folks working at Wizards is that they have been used to launch a product. Their use is done.
This is a tough economy and managing to a margin makes many managers bloodthirsty.
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(1) 4E is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in LFR, and it was packed.
(2) Paizo is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in Pathfinder society, and it was also packed.
(3) Companies re-organize all the time. The timing/process of this reorganization often seems arbitrary and irrational (and sometimes is).I think trying to read something about 4E's success into WOTC's announcement is futile, but more power to those who wish to try.
The success or failure of 4E is not the key issue. It is the success or failure of DDI that is driving this reorganization. For that, on a purely bottom basis, DDI is failing horrendously. It has made exactly nothing since the date it was supposed to premiere, and it will continue to make nothing until at least the start of September. (Or possibly October. The announcements about when they will start charging are a bit unclear.)
Paizo failing or not failing is almost certainly absolutely irrelevant to the reorganization, as the key factor of the reorganization is a completely different type of business that Paizo is not involved in.
While the timing and process of reorganizations may seem arbitrary and irrational, I see nothing of either in this one. It has a very specific purpose and a very specific goal that are rather obvious. WotC is shifting to focus on Magic Online and DDI. The books are definitely being aligned to support those. I suspect the cards and minis are getting some work to specifically support those as well. At the least they are being realigned into a more focused organized play program. (The RPGA database was finally fully integrated into the DCI database just last week.)
With all of that there is not much need to read anything into anything. I expect the final structure to speak quite clearly as to what is going on.
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While the timing and process of reorganizations may seem arbitrary and irrational, I see nothing of either in this one. It has a very specific purpose and a very specific goal that are rather obvious. WotC is shifting to focus on Magic Online and DDI. The books are definitely being aligned to support those. I suspect the cards and minis are getting some work to specifically support those as well. At the least they are being realigned into a more focused organized play program. (The RPGA database was finally fully integrated into the DCI database just last week.)With all of that there is not much need to read anything into anything. I expect the final structure to speak quite clearly as to what is going on.
Well, the job postings on the Hasbro/WotC job database would support your theory:
1) Online Initiatives: web developer, project manager localization, usability researcher, Mac tech II, architect - web applications, visual designer.
2) MtG/DDM: graphic designer (japanese/english), art director - Magic, outreach judge coordinator (organized play).
They are at least hiring for MtG positions and DDI/MtGO projects. This doesn't indicate where the layoffs were.
I would also like to add, following Mike's comments, that aside from a business discussion, a few people just lost their jobs in a bad time in the US. Best of luck to them finding something more stable.
My only question is: will the forums reset your name to THIEF, and next time you go into an FLGS, will the shopkeeper kill you with a laser beam?
I just wanted to make sure INUH didn't feel all alone: Me and my ocarina got the reference.
Here's a request to treat the subject of layoffs seriously. Some of our friends are feeling low right now.
Mike
Mike, you're right of course.
(1) 4E is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in LFR, and it was packed.
(2) Paizo is not failing; I was at Gencon, played in Pathfinder society, and it was also packed.
(3) Companies re-organize all the time. The timing/process of this reorganization often seems arbitrary and irrational (and sometimes is).I think trying to read something about 4E's success into WOTC's announcement is futile, but more power to those who wish to try.
The success or failure of 4E is not the key issue. It is the success or failure of DDI that is driving this reorganization. For that, on a purely bottom basis, DDI is failing horrendously. It has made exactly nothing since the date it was supposed to premiere, and it will continue to make nothing until at least the start of September. (Or possibly October. The announcements about when they will start charging are a bit unclear.)
I thought there was some (hopeful) rumbling about this being evidence for 4E's failure upthread.
You are correct about at least one thing: DDI is currently a disaster.
IIRC, Paizo's own Sean K Reynolds had to go through this after 3E was released.
If they do end up axing members of the 4E design team (as freelancers are cheaper), I'd bet there will be very few top-notch designers willing to sign on for 5E's development unless they go in with their eyes open, and expect a short career there.
I feel bad for all of those that likely put a lot of hours into their work, sacrificing time, sanity and time with family, only to get the pink slip. Major suckage. :(
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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If they do end up axing members of the 4E design team (as freelancers are cheaper), I'd bet there will be very few top-notch designers willing to sign on for 5E's development unless they go in with their eyes open, and expect a short career there.
Still, what a ride while it lasted!
If they do end up axing members of the 4E design team (as freelancers are cheaper), I'd bet there will be very few top-notch designers willing to sign on for 5E's development unless they go in with their eyes open, and expect a short career there.Still, what a ride while it lasted!
I would think the chance to have a hand in creating the next edition of the most played table-top RPG in the world would be too big of an opportunity for a designer to pass up, no matter the longterm career expectations. At least, it would be for me.
Cheers! :)
Not to derail this, but just because WOTC does 4e, is this the right place for this discussion?
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Arent you also forgetting DuelMasters? If Hasbro actually goes out of its way to mention it in a general release as to the health of the company, it HAS to be doing gangbusters.
Actually I am skipping a lot for the quick and dirty soundbite response. See my previous post, or to expand a bit:
I expect the main focus of WotC going into 2009 is going to be the digital games, Magic Online and DDI.
I expect the main support for those are going to be their novel line and their organized play system.
I expect the main elements of the organized play system are going to be Magic as a CCG, DDM as a CMG, and the RPGA as a CA-RPG. (Computer Assisted RPG, to distinguish it from a TRPG or an MMORPG - a game played on a virtual tabletop instead of a real tabletop, and having a DM instead of just an AI processor to supervise adventures.)
I expect everything else to be secondary.
I am not sure if they will go all the way and phase out DuelMasters, Heroscape, and their Avalon Hill games just yet. I think the degree to which they have resources left over after supercharging their digital department will be the main factor in determining that.
I am also not sure about Star Wars right now. It seems that it will continue just to keep the license active. If so, I expect it will be restructured to better fit the digital games structure. (Expanding the virtual table top to include Star Wars tiles and minis primarily, as well as adding Star Wars rules and images to the character and image generator.)
All of the first three are strongly supported by their press releases. The announcement about the contraction of the book line mentioned Magic and D&D.
The last is where it goes to heavy guesswork as it is primarily based on extrapolating from negative input. They are just not saying that much about any of those while saying a whole lot about everything else. I would therefore look to see their survival depend a lot on how well they fit in with the support structures for the others.
If they are really doing well but cannot fit into those structures I would more likely expect them to be split off to another division that can handle them better. I am sure Hasbro knows how to be efficient.
Or not. Those are my predictions right now. I acknowledge that a lot of my previous expectations were wrong because I simply did not want to accept that the era of TRPGs was passing. I have come to terms with that now, and I am making new predictions with that as a basic assumption. If you disagree with that then you will disagree with my analysis and those predictions.
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Well, the job postings on the Hasbro/WotC job database would support your theory:
Yep, I looked at those right away too.
They are at least hiring for MtG positions and DDI/MtGO projects. This doesn't indicate where the layoffs were.
Right, that is the one big element still missing to complete then analysis and projection.
I think when those are factored in the future of the other game lines, as well as of 4E, will be somewhat clearer.And as per other comments, that is not to marginalize them, that is just the business analysis information gathering part.
I like all the WotC people I have talked to, and I would rather none of them be on the wrong end of a reorganization like this.
-Gamer Zero is no longer with WotC. Solice is taking his place.
18DELTA
Well that's one positive change there. About time it happened.
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don't know about the novel lines-has anyone seen the preview catalog? a lot of re-releases of old stuff (e.g. the Dark Sun novels...)
Check this press release.
This is really getting old. WotC did not lie. Some guy says something to the effect of "I don't think its coming any time soon" and plans changed. That is not a lie.
Neither did Enron, right...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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-Here is the Thread in question
18DELTA
[threadjack]Thank you for this link. It has reminded me of why I stopped haunting the WotC messageboards and moved over here. I really do appreciate the general tone of this place, the light touch of moderation, and the respect the majority of Paizonians show to each other here.[/threadjack]