I just read on enworld that WoTC is reconsidering the GSL and considering making it more 3pp friendly. Here is a link:
Here is a quote:
“We recognize the important role third party publishing support plays in the success of the 4th Edition of Dungeons & Dragons. We have listened to the community and our valued colleagues and have taken their concerns and recommendations to heart. Our commitment to the health of the industry and hobby gaming lifestyle is reflected in the revisions to the Game System License.”
--Linae Foster D&D Licensing Manager
I sincerely hope that even if the GSL proves friendly to 3pp that the Pathfinder RP won't be affected. I have played 4e and it is not for me. True20 is my game and Pathfinder (as a 3.5 OGL property) looks very promising. I'm an OGL guy and I want Paizo to stay that way too.
Yeah!!
I'm not planning on switching to 4e but I think it's good for gaming in general. In fact, Wizards has shown a whole lot of backtracking in a good way lately. Perhaps I'm not the only one who voted with his feat.
At this point Paizo is pretty much committed to staying the course with PfRPG so I don't think we have to fear a change of course due to this.
If 3pps will gain the following freedoms:
1. Create products for both the GSL and the OGL
2. Not lose control of IP due to an At Will Termination Clause
...I will publically take back all the horrid things I thought about WoTC....oh dear, that might be embarrasing.
If this happens it will help the industry greatly. My fingers are crossed.
|
I just read on enworld that WoTC is reconsidering the GSL and considering making it more 3pp friendly. Here is a link:
It's an announcement of a forthcoming announcement. There's nothing there yet except an indication that they acknowledge that they misstepped with the GSL 1.0. We'll see what 1.1 looks like when it comes out.
It's an announcement of a forthcoming announcement. There's nothing there yet except an indication that they acknowledge that they misstepped with the GSL 1.0. We'll see what 1.1 looks like when it comes out.I just read on enworld that WoTC is reconsidering the GSL and considering making it more 3pp friendly. Here is a link:
Indeed. And if they work at the speed they have historically worked with licenses we'll see 1.1 in Spring 2009.
|
Since the Pathfinder RPG is based on the 3.5 OGL, and the GSL covers 4th edition only, whatever changes WotC makes to the GSL won't affect the Pathfinder RPG at all.
I think the post title is a sideways way of asking of Paizo will start supporting 4e if WotC take their collective heads out of...
While the delivery date is not yet firmly established, the revised documents will be available in the very near future.
And they have so far aspired to match 3drealms in their spot on delivery times.
Chief Technical Officer
|
I think the post title is a sideways way of asking of Paizo will start supporting 4e if WotC take their collective heads out of...
Lisa does have a list of things that would need to change in the GSL for us to consider signing on to it (and we're not going share that list publicly), but even if all of those conditions were met, it would not change our strategies for any of our Pathfinder products (including the Pathfinder RPG).
|
I think the post title is a sideways way of asking of Paizo will start supporting 4e if WotC take their collective heads out of...Lisa does have a list of things that would need to change in the GSL for us to consider signing on to it (and we're not going share that list publicly), but even if all of those conditions were met, it would not change our strategies for any of our Pathfinder products (including the Pathfinder RPG).
Hey, Vic, just between you and me, what is on that list? *wink wink nudge nudge*
The only way I can see it affecting Paizo is allowing them to add a 4E product line to what already exists.
Regardless of the changes brought about by GSL 1.1, it seems likely they will still retain the ability to change the GSL at will, and that you will be required to abide by the new GSL. If that remains the case, I just do not see anyone signing on. They could easily change the GSL to be more draconian than it currently exists, and because a company signed on previously they would be obligated to accept the changes. No thanks.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
The only way I can see it affecting Paizo is allowing them to add a 4E product line to what already exists.
We hope that it affects us by clearing up some of the uncertainty surrounding Necromancer Games.
But yes, I will happily tell you that one major change we're hoping to see is a reversion to the OGL-style "you may use any authorized version of this license" clause.
Since the Pathfinder RPG is based on the 3.5 OGL, and the GSL covers 4th edition only, whatever changes WotC makes to the GSL won't affect the Pathfinder RPG at all.
I REALLY REALLY hope WotC learns a lesson from this. At one point, they were really considered the "leader" in this industry and what they did with D&D mattered. I feel like a couple of bad decisions has lead them to squander a lot of that leadership credibility, and now they're trying to salvage the situation.
This really feels like a corporate entity out of touch with their market base.
To me, the problem with 4th Ed. is not the GSL, but 4th Ed.
I seriously have no desire to play that game. It lacks most of the things I want in a fantasy-roleplaying game. It's probably a very good tabletop wargame, but I'm not into these.
To me, the problem with 4th Ed. is not the GSL, but 4th Ed.
I seriously have no desire to play that game. It lacks most of the things I want in a fantasy-roleplaying game. It's probably a very good tabletop wargame, but I'm not into these.
QFT
As a player and DM I have to concur. I have played 4e and it holds no interest for me at all. However, if 3pps can support OGL games and 4e I might support it but that would only be a bottom-line buisness decision.
As someone wanting to create a 3p setting, this is all about the OGL and the safety of my IP from having to mothball it on aother company's whim.
I'll be playing OGL games like True20, Conan D20 and Pathfinder no matter what changes WoTC makes to the GSL.
Since the Pathfinder RPG is based on the 3.5 OGL, and the GSL covers 4th edition only, whatever changes WotC makes to the GSL won't affect the Pathfinder RPG at all.
What I mean to ask is...
Will a GSL that is friendly to 3pps make Paizo less likely to put resources into an OGL product like the Pathfinder RPG, the various APs and other OGL materials and instead focus on 4e if that is a viable option?
To me, the problem with 4th Ed. is not the GSL, but 4th Ed.
I seriously have no desire to play that game. It lacks most of the things I want in a fantasy-roleplaying game. It's probably a very good tabletop wargame, but I'm not into these.
Ditto. Or design for it.
To me, Pathfinder is the new D&D. 4th edition is a brand new different game that might make for a fun pickup game once in a while, but it isn't what I would use as my primary engine for fantasy roleplaying.
Ditto.To me, the problem with 4th Ed. is not the GSL, but 4th Ed.
I seriously have no desire to play that game. It lacks most of the things I want in a fantasy-roleplaying game. It's probably a very good tabletop wargame, but I'm not into these.
Same for me. I like the style of game that 3.5 provides, not what I've heard about 4E. That is true for me both as a player and as a writer.
My only hope for the GSL is that it allows for a healthy relationship between Licensor and Licensee. A Strong D&D is good for the RPG industry as a whole. That is my only real interest in it. Beyond that, I don't care.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
Will a GSL that is friendly to 3pps make Paizo less likely to put resources into an OGL product like the Pathfinder RPG, the various APs and other OGL materials and instead focus on 4e if that is a viable option?
No.
Keep in mind that we made the choices we made before we even saw the GSL.
Will a GSL that is friendly to 3pps make Paizo less likely to put resources into an OGL product like the Pathfinder RPG, the various APs and other OGL materials and instead focus on 4e if that is a viable option?No.
Keep in mind that we made the choices we made before we even saw the GSL.
Huzzah!!!
Thou art wise Sir Wertz, truly wise.
:)
To me, the problem with 4th Ed. is not the GSL, but 4th Ed.
I seriously have no desire to play that game. It lacks most of the things I want in a fantasy-roleplaying game. It's probably a very good tabletop wargame, but I'm not into these.
Same for me. :)
|
|
I have nothing against 4th edition as a ruleset, but am not interested in picking it up. I'm pretty happy with 3rd edition, and it has nothing to do with the amount of money I've already spent. It is quite obvious to me that I'm willing to spend more on new games and supplements, as long as they're of sufficient quality.
I think a less restrictive GSL is a good thing, but I'm glad that Paizo will be going OGL regardless. I don't want publishers to have no choice but to publish for 3rd edition - I want them to have a choice and still choose 3rd ed (or the Pathfinder variant).
I almost see this as bad news for the OGL movement.
The GSL and Wizards/Hasbro attempted to nuke the markent. This forced the so called editon wars and led many to move to other game systems. Being someone who likes other games like rifts it matters less, but most hardcore players on both sides lost players in the process. In any case the OGL movment livied on because of Pathfinder, Conan, and True 20. While most settings using the OGL are 1. Makeing there own system (Arcanaus, maybe Iron Kingdoms). 2. Going 4e without the GSL just calling it 4e (Kingdoms of Kalamar). 3. Haven't done anything yet holding there breath (Midnight). Only Goodman has really jumped on board with GSL and I'm not even sure if they signed or not. Mongoose seems to be doing it only a limited basis. Overall Wizards got a slap in the face and didn't get the whole industry behind them as they did in 2000.
Thus I see this as a move not to make GSL more open to 3PP but to keep them from supporting where the OGL movement is naturally moving to (ie Pathfinder/True 20 and to a much lesser extent Conan). Keep in mind 3pp do not have to make a choice at the moment, they simply cannot cross lines. I'm not a publisher but I very much doubt that's an attractive choice in the first place. Either a 90+ page book has two rulesets, or you make what is effectively two print runs of the same thing. That was rare even at the hight of the 3.x days. Rokugon is the only line I can think of right off the top of my head.
No. Make no mistake this is a move to further isolate and hurt the OGL movment by making it more attractive to join Wizards then continuing to support or publish for the OGL. I can't blame publishers for wanting to make money with 4e, but I do hope they remeber that there is another viable markent who likes OGL common sytem.
I know how I sound, but I've been burned by Wizards once too often thank you.
P.S. In the end that burn is Wizards legacy.
I don't really think 4th Ed. GSL can be seen as true competition to the 3.5e SRD. GSL is apparently a form of franchising or outsourcing. It's Wizards business and other companies might add their own works to the franchise, under supervision.
But the SRD is really open source. Publishers can make books and settings as they like, players can discuss rules openly in forums, and homebrewers can make their creations public without technically violating coppyright law. I'm not completely sure, but if I made a 4th Ed. setting and provide stats blocks for NPCs and creatures, that most probably would be illegal (if I get sued is a different thing).
True, there are very awsome publications by paizo and some others (to tell the truth, I found most of the others disappointing), but to me a "SRD movement" is not five or six small publishers, but the probably tens of thousands of players who share their creations and discuss the rules.
|
To the OP's question: No, PAIZO has chosen its own destiny, and becauase of that, it must feel very rewarding to not even flinch this time when wotc makes another dramatic announcement.
The beauty of Pathfinder/3.5/OGL is the open game licence. I'm sure the 3pps won't be fooled this time by the extension of the laurel wreath in one hand by wotc, since in the past they've been clobbered over the head with the sword in the other hand.
Its too little too late - and how pathetic, that the announcement didn't actually contain any substantive changes, but rather just the "tease" that nice-nice might be coming. (Okay, so one less tomato might be thrown at Gen Con.)
PAIZO is now on par with that behemoth of an organization known as wotc. PAIZO has taken he right steps that were good for us, the community! So far, only the PAIZO insiders & the friends we tell are adopting Pathfinder INSTEAD of d&d. I'm sure wotc's announcement comes at a critical time JUST BEFORE Pathfinder goes mainstream to the wider gamer base (a la Gen Con). Strategically, regardless of whatever wotc does to loosen the reigns of the GSL, 3PPs actually have the uppper hand right now - and from a negotiation perspective should ask for nothing short of a restoration of the OGL.
|
The most likely result of all of this is that the GSL will be altered enough to allow third-party companies like Necromancer Games to feel confident about publishing support materials and adventures for 4th Edition D&D.
If I had to hazard a guess, this would be something along the lines of providing guarantees that it won't a) prevent them from publishing 3.X/OGL products, b) that they won't totally get screwed out of any of their rights, and c) that the GSL won't later be revised again to revoke any of these beneficial changes being made.
What I'll be curious to see is whether the changes will convince Kenzer to switch to publishing under the GSL, rather than releasing non-GSL 4th Edition material as was their current plan.
But I'm not holding my breath on any of these counts - if WotC makes the right decision here, it will be a big departure from their recent series of missteps.
|
|
Considering the amount of money they'd lose simply from having to ditch all of their investment on the PFRPG and the 3.X system in general, I seriously doubt that Paizo will abandon that.
I think at most you would see them printing additional, unrelated products for 4E, or perhaps conversion guides, and the like - but I strongly tend to think that Wizards is not going to loosen the GSL to the point where that's possible.
|
|
Considering the amount of money they'd lose simply from having to ditch all of their investment on the PFRPG and the 3.X system in general, I seriously doubt that Paizo will abandon that.
Well, he was using his imagination.
Similarly, can you imagine WotC employees following Erik and Lisa around trying to entice them to adopt the GSL, with promises of "open-licensed pizza" and "miniature american flags."
Oh, and the WotC employees are kobolds in business suits.
