My group has been playing Paizo for several months now. We have a Monk in our party and we have been noting how the new rules affect him. Here is an actual e-mail he sent to me by that player in regards to the jump checks the Monk has.
"I am just staggered at the potential for jumping ridiculousness.
Right now, I have 12 ranks(Level 12) in acrobatics and a Dex bonus of +3. Acrobatics is a class skill so there’s another +3, making my acrobatics check an +18. My movement is now up to 70’, giving me a total jump bonus of +16 (+4/10’ over 30’ base) for a jump bonus of +34. I also get to add my monk class level to jump checks, so another +12 gives me a base of +46 to jump. I can roll a 2 and jump 12 feet vertical from a standstill.
But it gets better. Looking at the Ki abilities, I noticed two things: they don’t define spending a Ki point as any kind of action whatsoever, and there are two point uses that help jump. You can spend a ki point to give yourself and extra +20’ movement for a round. You can also spend a point to add +20 to one jump check. If these two are allowed to stack, that’s another +28 to a single jump check for two ki points (assuming you can’t spend more than one point for the flat +20 bonus, which they don’t explicitly restrict), bringing my total bonus for a single jump to +74. I can roll a 6 and jump 20 feet vertically from a stand-still."
It should also be noted that a +74 allows for a 74 foot Horizontal jump that needs no running start if you are a monk.
I also feel that there is just no way any skill should have a +74 bonus.
I think Paizo needs to adjust the Jumping abilities of the Monk and more importantly ASSIGN ACTION TYPE SPECIFICS TO KI POOL USES AND CLARIFY WHAT CAN AND CAN NOT STACK.
Note that the Acrobatics skill no longer says anything about +4 to jump checks per +10' of speed. So the base is +30 (not +46) with a maximum of +50 (not +74).
I guess it is a bit silly, but personally I don't have a problem with a monk making a crazily huge jump. YMMV.
My group has been playing Paizo for several months now. We have a Monk in our party and we have been noting how the new rules affect him. Here is an actual e-mail he sent to me by that player in regards to the jump checks the Monk has.
"I am just staggered at the potential for jumping ridiculousness.
Right now, I have 12 ranks(Level 12) in acrobatics and a Dex bonus of +3. Acrobatics is a class skill so there’s another +3, making my acrobatics check an +18. My movement is now up to 70’, giving me a total jump bonus of +16 (+4/10’ over 30’ base) for a jump bonus of +34. I also get to add my monk class level to jump checks, so another +12 gives me a base of +46 to jump. I can roll a 2 and jump 12 feet vertical from a standstill.
But it gets better. Looking at the Ki abilities, I noticed two things: they don’t define spending a Ki point as any kind of action whatsoever, and there are two point uses that help jump. You can spend a ki point to give yourself and extra +20’ movement for a round. You can also spend a point to add +20 to one jump check. If these two are allowed to stack, that’s another +28 to a single jump check for two ki points (assuming you can’t spend more than one point for the flat +20 bonus, which they don’t explicitly restrict), bringing my total bonus for a single jump to +74. I can roll a 6 and jump 20 feet vertically from a stand-still."
It should also be noted that a +74 allows for a 74 foot Horizontal jump that needs no running start if you are a monk.
I also feel that there is just no way any skill should have a +74 bonus.
I think Paizo needs to adjust the Jumping abilities of the Monk and more importantly ASSIGN ACTION TYPE SPECIFICS TO KI POOL USES AND CLARIFY WHAT CAN AND CAN NOT STACK.
I was under the impression that speed no longer mattered for jump checks? Am I wrong? Cause that would be keen.
As for Ki points if it's not listed I thought abilities like that defaulted to free actions (if it's not a standard or move action and can only be done during your turn it must be a free action).
As for Ki points if it's not listed I thought abilities like that defaulted to free actions (if it's not a standard or move action...
If they are Free actions then that means you can stack a lot of monk bonuses every round and I think that is broken.
It should be noted that in 3.5 Ninjas are the only class with a Ki pool. And it is listed per Ki pool ability what type of action it is to use it.
If they are Free actions then that means you can stack a lot of monk bonuses every round and I think that is broken.
It clearly states: "Each of these powers is activated as a swift action."
So no stacking.
As for Ki points if it's not listed I thought abilities like that defaulted to free actions (if it's not a standard or move action...If they are Free actions then that means you can stack a lot of monk bonuses every round and I think that is broken.
It should be noted that in 3.5 Ninjas are the only class with a Ki pool. And it is listed per Ki pool ability what type of action it is to use it.
Even though it is evidently a moot point now, I'm pretty sure you can only do one free action a round.
Note that the Acrobatics skill no longer says anything about +4 to jump checks per +10' of speed. So the base is +30 (not +46) with a maximum of +50 (not +74).
I guess it is a bit silly, but personally I don't have a problem with a monk making a crazily huge jump. YMMV.
True, it doesn't mention speed under the new acrobatics. I guess we were so used to 3.5 jump we just grandfathered it in. It would only take 16 off the check not 24 though since it only factored in after 30' of speed. So the jump check would be a +58.
All this is only at level 12 mind you...
Even though it is evidently a moot point now, I'm pretty sure you can only do one free action a round.As for Ki points if it's not listed I thought abilities like that defaulted to free actions (if it's not a standard or move action...If they are Free actions then that means you can stack a lot of monk bonuses every round and I think that is broken.
It should be noted that in 3.5 Ninjas are the only class with a Ki pool. And it is listed per Ki pool ability what type of action it is to use it.
Actually I think Swift is once a round and Free is...well free...
Not that it matters at this point, I'll just double check for future reference.
Note that the Acrobatics skill no longer says anything about +4 to jump checks per +10' of speed. So the base is +30 (not +46) with a maximum of +50 (not +74).
I guess it is a bit silly, but personally I don't have a problem with a monk making a crazily huge jump. YMMV.
Actually you are right it is a +50. I wasn't counting the extra 20' he got from spending a Ki point. I should really learn to double check before posting.
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Does anyone else think it's kinda weird that speed doesn't affect jumping distance anymore? As Anvil pointed out, it could lead to some massive Jump checks, but really, someone running incredibly fast should be able to jump further than someone slow, without special training.
Maybe it's replaced in the Beta? Or is this gone for good?
All this is only at level 12 mind you...
It's all relative. A level 12 monk can teleport 640' while drinking a gallon of cyanide, so being able to jump 60' doesn't faze me too much.
;-)
That kind of jumping should allow the monk to do the kind of stuff you see in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (and umpteen other wuxia films), so seems entirely appropriate to me.
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Does anyone else think it's kinda weird that speed doesn't affect jumping distance anymore? As Anvil pointed out, it could lead to some massive Jump checks, but really, someone running incredibly fast should be able to jump further than someone slow, without special training.
Maybe it's replaced in the Beta? Or is this gone for good?
I rather hope they put it back in. The quickling in Carnival of Tears has been complaining, and I can't seem to catch him to shut him up.
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I rather hope they put it back in. The quickling in Carnival of Tears has been complaining, and I can't seem to catch him to shut him up.
Great point. I would hate to see the Quickling lose his ability to jump over houses. Sure, he'd still be able to run around them, but it's not the same...
Out of curiosity (since I don't have my modules handy...), does anyone remember if the Quickling has the Run feat?
Still, I fail to see the problem with a jump check in the 50's or higher ... gives the monk a "wuxia" feel to their powers, and comparing the antics a wizard or sorc can do at that time, hardly unbalanced.
The problem comes into play when Feats such as Battle Jump and Flying Kick are used in conjunction with the Monks jump bonuses. These feats never had to take into account a class with such a high inherent jump/acrobatics bonus.
It is more likely the feats themselves need to change, not the monk. As a DM I am just wary of any class that grants such a large inherent bonus to any skill. I would be happy if this ability scaled for Monks +10' to start increasing to 20' feet for a Ki pool expendature.
It is also a change in the way one thinks about skill bonuses. As a DM I am used to seeing +15 to +20 bonuses on skills at mid-levels. When I see a +50 or higher my immediate reaction is to say "Holy Sh*t, that's broken!" Paizo has several class abilities that shatter my skill bonus perceptions.(Bardic Knowledge ability to identify monster weaknesses)
Flavor-wise I have no problem with Monks jumping Anime style. It's just a matter of whether or not the game mechanics can keep up. The afore mentioned Feats will have to be adjusted to compensate. More playtesting will have to be done.
"I am just staggered at the potential for jumping ridiculousness."
That's awesome. Wire work in DnD! With no magic! This post actually made me excited to play a monk. Good player, that.
That's awesome. Wire work in DnD! With no magic! This post actually made me excited to play a monk. Good player, that.
Well, the monk's Ki Pool is a (Su) ability, so it's a bit magical.
It's also a nice skill-saver. Assuming that you don't mind the loss in other areas of Acrobatics (balance, etc), a 12th level monk (16 dex) with only 1 rank in Acrobatics still manages a +19 to jump, and can spend a ki point to get +39. So you can spend your ranks in... erm... Knowledge History... or something.
Heh, anyway, All 5+ level monks can Naruto jump. Bad-ass. I personally love this ability and *really* hope they keep it, it's my favorite thing about the new monk. It also opens some interesting possibilities, Monk5/Rogue-X would be fun to play, but hardly broken as most of the things the rogue could do with his +36 jump check aren't anything he couldn't do by 6th level with a potion of fly, or having the wizard cast Fly on him.
Incidentally, monk level 20. 20+20+20+3+3= +66. Enough to jump from ground level to the top of a 6 (or, on a 4+ a 7 story) building in one go. That's pretty awesome if you ask me.
This makes me want to make a Thri-Kreen monk. Lets hear it for +30 racial bonus on Jump checks!
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I have been playtesting a monk (only lvl 4 now) in our RotRL campaign and have been pleased with the ki pool and some of the Pathfinder changes to the class. Considering what some other classes can do at higher levels, the monk's movement capabilities are not overpowered. It also gives the monk a signature role in the party that is still valuable at higher levels (when everyone else is flying around anyway).
Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread, it gave me something to think about.
I've always liked the 'feel' of the Monks new abilities, I was just overwhelmed by a skill with a +50 modifier. But as Hogarth said it's all relative when a monk can teleport while drinking a gallon of cyanide.
I realize now that what needs adjusting is not the Monk but rather the 3.5 feats that work off jump/acrobatics such as Battle Jump and Flying Kick which can be used by a monk far easier than they were intended and cause massive attack damage.
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I'm still not so sure it's all THAT bad. A fighter with a good selection of feats can still deal more damage than the afore mentioned battle-jumping Monk.
Of course, I don't think Battle Jump is OGL, being out of an obscure Forgotten Realms book, so I don't think Paizo can really do much about it.
Jump is still a weird action...it's not the same as, say, stealth or other acrobatics checks. It's the one skill in the game that doesn't really get too insane when you slap a +20 or more on it. It just lets you move a little further.
At least we're all in agreement that the style of it works. ^_^
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I realize now that what needs adjusting is not the Monk but rather the 3.5 feats that work off jump/acrobatics such as Battle Jump and Flying Kick which can be used by a monk far easier than they were intended and cause massive attack damage.
Have you actually used those feats in play with those bonuses before making this claim? As I recall flying kick adds 1d12 to damage but uses a standard action as an attack. I'm not sure what battle jump does, but I would wait till you've actually seen a monk that uses them, heck this is playtest time, have your friend take the monk in that direction and see how he stacks up to the party wizard in damage potential
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Have you actually used those feats in play with those bonuses before making this claim? As I recall flying kick adds 1d12 to damage but uses a standard action as an attack. I'm not sure what battle jump does, but I would wait till you've actually seen a monk that uses them, heck this is playtest time, have your friend take the monk in that direction and see how he stacks up to the party wizard in damage potentialT
I realize now that what needs adjusting is not the Monk but rather the 3.5 feats that work off jump/acrobatics such as Battle Jump and Flying Kick which can be used by a monk far easier than they were intended and cause massive attack damage.
I'm in the OP's play group.
here's how our friend, the Monk of leaping goodness, plays out.
Flying kick adds +1d12 damage on a charge with an unarmed attack.
Battle jump (out of unapproachable east) says you can execute a charge with a drop of at least 5 feet above your opponent, so long as it's not more than 30 feet and you're not flying or something else goofy. On top of that, if you hit, you deal double weapon/unarmed damage.
Add in powerful charge and greater powerful charge: +2d6 on a charge for damage.
THEN to put the cherry on the sundae of aerobatic nuttiness, add in two-weapon pounce from the PHB2.
This is the figures we come out with:
Monk jumps, and with his berserk jump mod, he can easily get a 15 foot vertical standing leap. This puts him five feet over most foes, so suddenly he's treated as charging.
This adds 1d12 + 2d6 to his 2d6 unarmed strike, of which he gets TWO, because of his two-weapon pounce. Even though he's not using two weapons per se, his fists more or less count. Oh, he's got an STR of 16 as well.
The battlejump also doubles his base weapon damage. So when he jumps at an enemy, he gets two attacks:
Attack 1: 4d6 + 6 + 2d6 + 1d12 (13-58) - main hand
Attack 2: 4d6 + 2 + 2d6 + 1d12 (9-54) - off hand
On top of this, he can add in fiery fist if he doesn't use Ki to boost his jump, slapping an extra 1d6 fire damage on each strike.
Now, the DM ruled that the flying kick and powerful charge damage should only apply to the first attack of the two, which most of use are OK with. It's still pretty impressive for a Monk though; especially since he can make this attack from over sixty to seventy feet away, and can bypass any obstacle or foe in his path with a tremendous leap.
Personally, I think it's awesome, but it aggravates our DM when the monk makes a sixty foot horizontal leap and splatters the evil wizard by bypassing all of his minions. And then, of course, he jumps away before they can converge on him. ^_^
Have you actually used those feats in play with those bonuses before making this claim? As I recall flying kick adds 1d12 to damage but uses a standard action as an attack. I'm not sure what battle jump does, but I would wait till you've actually seen a monk that uses them, heck this is playtest time, have your friend take the monk in that direction and see how he stacks up to the party wizard in damage potential
My Monk player has been using them for months even before Pathfinder came out. I wouldn't mention them otherwise. He can easily hand out an average of 50+ points of damage per attack at 12th level. And thanks to two weapon pounce he can get two attacks per round. This is not all because of Battle Jump and Flying Kick but they do feed handily into the total. Here is his feat list.
Improved Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist (pre-req for Fiery Fists)
Extra Stunning
Powerful Charge
Improved Powerful Charge
Fiery Fists
Battle Jump
Power Attack (pre-req for Flying Kick)
Flying Kick
2-Weapon Fighting (pre-req for 2 Weapon Pounce)
2-Weapon Pounce (for 2 attacks/charge)
Off the top of my head I believe Battle Jump states that the base damage from an attack is doubled if the Monk can get a ' drop on an enemy. Paizo's new jump mods make it almost certain that the monk can jump that high,(ceiling provided)without even a roll, for medium size creatures.
I will give a breakdown of the damage and where it all comes from as soon as I consult the player and double check all the math.
Looks like fellow gamer Pognark has all ready beaten me to it though...
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and if a 12th level sorcerer targets a creature with a scorching ray with all possible rays striking the same target what damage is the sorcerer doing?
Edit: this isn't even a great spell to choose just the first one my head popped up with at work with no books around me, but I'm pretty sure with a 12th level wizard I could make your monk cry
I'm still not so sure it's all THAT bad. A fighter with a good selection of feats can still deal more damage than the afore mentioned battle-jumping Monk.
Of course, I don't think Battle Jump is OGL, being out of an obscure Forgotten Realms book, so I don't think Paizo can really do much about it.
Jump is still a weird action...it's not the same as, say, stealth or other acrobatics checks. It's the one skill in the game that doesn't really get too insane when you slap a +20 or more on it. It just lets you move a little further.
At least we're all in agreement that the style of it works. ^_^
Well OGL or not I can always house rule them to the frustration and annoyance of my players. Which is always what an evil DM should strive for.
Good times, good times...
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and if a 12th level sorcerer targets a creature with a scorching ray with all possible rays striking the same target what damage is the sorcerer doing?
Edit: this isn't even a great spell to choose just the first one my head popped up with at work with no books around me, but I'm pretty sure with a 12th level wizard I could make your monk cry
That's kind of the point where I don't think this Monk build is all that bad. Yeah, he hits hard, but my sorcerer is regularly dropping 15d6 fireballs (empowered) in battle, or triple scorching ray blasts.
I think he's right in line with the rest of our party for damage. he's just very flashy and unorthodox, so I think it gets a lot of attention when he says "I make a sixty foot leap and axe kick the golem in the skull twice, shattering him to pieces with my massive damage".
and if a 12th level sorcerer targets a creature with a scorching ray with all possible rays striking the same target what damage is the sorcerer doing?
Edit: this isn't even a great spell to choose just the first one my head popped up with at work with no books around me, but I'm pretty sure with a 12th level wizard I could make your monk cry
Why is the wizard always the standard of damage dealing everyone else needs to be keeping up with? And why do they need to keep up in the first place when there are so many other roles to fill. Just curious no need to answer.
Also spells ara a limited resource. FIsts are not.
Plus I already have a wizard that can tweak his character to create enough damage to make Gary Gygax cry if he here were with us today.
His name is Plognark.
and if a 12th level sorcerer targets a creature with a scorching ray with all possible rays striking the same target what damage is the sorcerer doing?
Edit: this isn't even a great spell to choose just the first one my head popped up with at work with no books around me, but I'm pretty sure with a 12th level wizard I could make your monk cry
That's kind of the point where I don't think this Monk build is all that bad. Yeah, he hits hard, but my sorcerer is regularly dropping 15d6 fireballs (empowered) in battle, or triple scorching ray blasts.
I think he's right in line with the rest of our party for damage. he's just very flashy and unorthodox, so I think it gets a lot of attention when he says "I make a sixty foot leap and axe kick the golem in the skull twice, shattering him to pieces with my massive damage".
I've got it all figured out. From now on all battles will mysteriously take place in low ceilinged areas.
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and if a 12th level sorcerer targets a creature with a scorching ray with all possible rays striking the same target what damage is the sorcerer doing?
Edit: this isn't even a great spell to choose just the first one my head popped up with at work with no books around me, but I'm pretty sure with a 12th level wizard I could make your monk cry
Why is the wizard always the standard of damage dealing everyone else needs to be keeping up with? And why do they need to keep up in the first place when there are so many other roles to fill. Just curious no need to answer.
Also spells ara a limited resource. FIsts are not.
Plus I already have a wizard that can tweak his character to create enough damage to make Gary Gygax cry if he here were with us today.
His name is Plognark.
Because the (well not necesarily wizard, but spellcaster) wizard is usually taking over the game at that point, and lets not forget that yes the fists are an unlimited resource, but they also only target one enemy at a time, and lets not forget that it is a one trick pony show, which means he gets to do it once and the enemy knows what to expect from him. The wizard on the other hand can deal more damage, to multiple targets and the enemy won't be as prepared to counter because the wizard has multiple things that all do damage in different ways, if he hasn't been spamming save or sucks.
Believe me I'm not one of those people who thinks that anything a martial character can do is okay because spellcasters are better (don't get me started on the tripping build nerf issue on which I say the nerf was a good thing) but I don't see the problem with this monk that is above level 10 doing wuxia like effects. and I don't even like wuxia.
I don't see the problem with this monk that is above level 10 doing wuxia like effects. and I don't even like wuxia.
I don't have a problem with the Monk. I'm his DM if I did I would not have allowed him to make the build he did. I have actually rewarded him for a creative build.
What needed clarifying for me was the adjustment in mindset to skills with +50 mods and the class abilities that create them. I was trained as a DM for years that a red alarm should go off in my head when I see mods that high. Now I have to adjust.
I also am required by DM law to double check all feats that allow that much damage based off a jump when the rules for jump have changed. My hands are tied on this one.
BTW what the hell is wuxia?
or you know nothing like a monk jumping over the wizard and falling smack dab into the invisible wall of force
I like it! Illusions would work nicely as well....
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BTW what the hell is wuxia?
Wuxia, roughly pronounced "woo seeyah" is Mandarin Chinese for "martial arts chivalry," or "martial arts heroes." It's a literary (and more recently film) sub-genre that focuses on heroes capable of greatly exagerated wushu (literally "martial arts") abilities. Jumping/flying, walking up walls, kicking helluva hard, etc. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; Hero and House of Flying Daggers are good examples of film presentations of wuxia.
BTW what the hell is wuxia?Wuxia, roughly pronounced "woo seeyah" is Mandarin Chinese for "martial arts chivalry," or "martial arts heroes." It's a literary (and more recently film) sub-genre that focuses on heroes capable of greatly exagerated wushu (literally "martial arts") abilities. Jumping/flying, walking up walls, kicking helluva hard, etc. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; Hero and House of Flying Daggers are good examples of film presentations of wuxia.
Ahh, thank you. Now I know. And knowing is half the battle. GIJoe.
2-Weapon Fighting (pre-req for 2 Weapon Pounce)
2-Weapon Pounce (for 2 attacks/charge)
That's a neat build, but unfortunately monks can't take those feats, due to the following:
There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.
So unless your monk is using a weapon, Pathfinder has changed this and I haven't noticed it, or you have a house rule, you can't use the two weapon feats.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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This is the figures we come out with:
Monk jumps, and with his berserk jump mod, he can easily get a 15 foot vertical standing leap. This puts him five feet over most foes, so suddenly he's treated as charging.
This adds 1d12 + 2d6 to his 2d6 unarmed strike, of which he gets TWO, because of his two-weapon pounce. Even though he's not using two weapons per se, his fists more or less count. Oh, he's got an STR of 16 as well.
The battlejump also doubles his base weapon damage. So when he jumps at an enemy, he gets two attacks:
Attack 1: 4d6 + 6 + 2d6 + 1d12 (13-58) - main hand
Attack 2: 4d6 + 2 + 2d6 + 1d12 (9-54) - off handOn top of this, he can add in fiery...
That's nothing... the Goliath Barbarian in my group blows that away everyday and twice on sunday. Sure it's not exactly a fair comparison but 6d6+1d12+6 is pitiful compared to:
4d6 Large Goliath greathammer
+18 str (two handed weapon, 34 str while raging)
+60 Leap Attack (Power attack for +15)
= For a non crit average of 92 points
He's Critted for over 300 points of damage!
But if you want more Jumpy goodness take Raptor School for a measly DC 25 jump check you get a +4 damage and if you're a Halfling check you the Races of the Wild's halfling monk substitution levels!
Here's my Hin Fist build for 3.5:
LN Small Humanoid (Halfling)
Init +8 (+8 Dex); Senses Listen +15, Spot +13
[Aura Moderate Lawful]
Languages Auran, Common
AC 31, touch 29, flat-footed 23 (+4 armor, +8 Dex, +1 size, +4 insight, +4 class, +2 deflection) [+2 dodge (if move 40’ in round), +2 competence (if move 10’ in round)]
hp 101 (15 HD)
[Immune Poison, Disease]
[SR 25]
Fort +11, Ref +17, Will +13 [+2 vs. Enchantment spells, +2 vs. Fear]
Spd 70 ft
Melee unarmed strike +20/+15/+10 (2d8+2) +2d6 Axiomatic strike, +2d6 skirmish, +1d12 Flying Kick, +4 Eagle Swoop
Melee Adamantine Sai +14/+9/+4 (1d3+2)
Ranged Shuriken +22 (1d2+2) (+11 BAB, +8 Dex, +1 size, +1 weapon quality, +1 racial)
[Space 5 ft; Reach 5 ft]
Base Atk +11 ; Grp +9
[Atk Options: Disarm, Eagle Swoop, Flying Kick, Leap Attack, Power Attack]
[Special Atks: Axiomatic Strike, Quivering Palm, Skirmish, Stunning Fist, Ki Strike (Magic, Lawful)]
Combat Gear: Adamantine Sai, 5 Cold Iron Shuriken, 5 Alchemical Silver Shuriken
Abilities Str 14, Dex 27, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 11
[SQ: Still Mind, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body (Heal 30hps), Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, Improved Evasion, Abundant Step (680’, 2 Med. creatures), Slow Fall 70’, Fast Movement +50’]
Feats Expeditious Dodge, Power Attack, Stunning Fist B, Weapon Finesse B, Flying Kick, Leap Attack, Improved Disarm B, Mobility, Axiomatic Strike, Raptor School
Skills Jump +38, Tumble +28, Escape Artist +17, Balance +13, Sense Motive +10, Move Silently +19, Hide +21
Possessions Monk’s Belt, Ring of Protection +2, Gloves of Dex +4, Bracers of Armor +4, Periapt of Wis +2, Potions: CSW (3d8+5), Darkvision, Displacement
Does anyone else think it's kinda weird that speed doesn't affect jumping distance anymore?
As a former track guy (long jump & triple jump), I can attest that speed matters FAR more than Dex, Str, or even skill. Really, an 18-Dex guy with 16 ranks in Jump and a speed of 20 ft. shouldn't be able to jump anywhere near as far as a 10-Dex guy with 6 ranks and a speed of 40 ft.
Jumping is not very powerful, especially at 12th level (remember, the Warlock's been flying 25 hours a day for ~ 7 levels by this point). This isn't an issue.
My argument for keeping the bonus based on speed is simple; if they're going to penalize you by increasing DCs if you're NOT running how can speed not be a factor? Movement is just an indication of speed, and if the DCs are based on the standard 30'/round movement the original 3.5 bonuses/penalties for non-standard movement (over or under 30'/round) should stick.
As a former track guy (long jump & triple jump), I can attest that speed matters FAR more than Dex, Str, or even skill. Really, an 18-Dex guy with 16 ranks in Jump and a speed of 20 ft. shouldn't be able to jump anywhere near as far as a 10-Dex guy with 6 ranks and a speed of 40 ft.
Are you suggesting that Carl Lewis is a better jumper than Harold Sakata or the Flying Karamazov Brothers?
Jumping is not very powerful, especially at 12th level (remember, the Warlock's been flying 25 hours a day for ~ 7 levels by this point). This isn't an issue.That is impressive. I need one of those warlocks that bend time! :)
Yes, the special "get an extra hour in the day" Invocation, very rare, very deadly. Makes you taste oregano, though, and no one's been able to find out why...
Actually, in all seriousness, that would be an awesome Greater/Dark invocation. Not sure how to implement it, though.