Wait. Paizo is too pro-4E? Really?
"... the ones who catch feelings" Like the flu?
"Then they bash that poster and, eventually, everyone else ends up doing the same thing and it suddenly makes what they're doing right and what the poster did wrong when it's obviously the opposite."
What?! What are you talking about, man? No wonder you keep losing arguments. You need to use specifics rather than assume that everyone knows everything about your internet bizness.
Wow, my way of protesting 4E is to have nothing to do with it. Unless my mind changes over the course of the edition for some odd reason, I won't spend any more money on it and I've decided not to design for it. I'm cool with that, even if that means I can't scrape together another piece of design work as long as I live. Better to stand for what I believe in. I don't think I'd really get my point across by attacking people who do enjoy it, nor do I fault them for playing a game.
At the end of the day, it's just a game. It's something we do for fun and spend great amounts of our disposable income on. WotC didn't torture my kittens, set my house on fire, or sell the American middle class into indentured servitude. They just made some choices I don't like. So what? Get over it. Vote with my dollar. Vote with my time. Vote with my choice in companies and products to support.
We'll be seeing you soon Razz. I doubt it will take too much time to gain a little perspective. I think these boards are great and I'm personally very happy I decided to give them a chance.
I don't like 4E either, but ranting about it will not change the direction WotC has chosen. Rather, I will simply not buy, DM or otherwise engage myself with 4E. Yes, occassional venting can relieve oneself, but you can find other venues for that, yet still come here for other discussions.
I like razz! Sorry guys, but it was entertaining to me and I am a firm believer in freedom of speech/expression. Even if that means letting some people spew some ridiculous garbage along the way.
I was also entertained by Razz and don't dig the censorship. But they're not my boards and they're still the best around and if Razz can't see that it's his loss.
Also, I love these threads where guys announce they're leaving. It's 100% pure fun. Thanks for the drama Razz.
I like chocolate milk!
I like chocolate milk!
ME TOO!!!!
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I like razz! Sorry guys, but it was entertaining to me and I am a firm believer in freedom of speech/expression. Even if that means letting some people spew some ridiculous garbage along the way.
Just for the record, Paizo did not violate Razz's 1st Amendment right. Paizo is a private business entity and does not in any way shape or form appear to be a "state actor." The 1st Amendment applies to the government, whether state or federal, and those who are so closely entwined with government as to take on this burden (like a corp that owns a town and won't let people proselytize). Until Paizo founds "Paizoton" they cannot have violated anyones Constiutional rights. Also, like ALL of the Bill of Rights, the freedom of speech is subject to limitations (obscenity, falsity, reasonable and fair time/manner/place retsrictions, etc) and is not blanket permission to state whatever a person wants, HOWEVER a person wants. Finally, there is a distinction between political speech and just "spewing garbage." The 1st Amendment was written to protect the former, I can't think of a single legal system that seeks to protect the later.
As for Razz leaving, well I hope you either return to Paizo after a much needed break or find a place more suited you point of view. Either way, good luck in your every endeavor.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ok Kruelaid, you've asked us to avoid china bashing on the boards, so their government wouldn't block the site, and I've respected it but I have to step in here.
You're worried about a private company moderating their boards but turn a blind eye to an entire nation being censored?
I personally can't wait to recieve my set of the 4e core rulebooks.Lafyatis, c'mon over to Paizo's 4E board if you have any questions.
Sounds like a plan!
Don’t…care.
I was in the supermarket this morning and your dignity was plastered all over the side of a milk carton with a huge on it.
For cripes sake, if you are going to go, just go. Don’t whine about the how or the why, just slip quietly into the night.
Don’t…care.
I was in the supermarket this morning and your dignity was plastered all over the side of a milk carton with a huge on it.
For cripes sake, if you are going to go, just go. Don’t whine about the how or the why, just slip quietly into the night.
/agree
The whole idea of starting a thread to announce your departure seems a bit self-important to me.
I suppose it's generally bad to lose a forum members, but in the time I've been here I can't see any constructive contribution made by Razz, so I'm not too bothered. A lot of juvenile behavior if you ask me.
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Ok Kruelaid, you've asked us to avoid china bashing on the boards, so their government wouldn't block the site, and I've respected it but I have to step in here.
You're worried about a private company moderating their boards but turn a blind eye to an entire nation being censored?
Trust me, it doesn't take many comments like this to get the site blocked.
We're serious about our rules in the 4E threads. Name-calling is instant post-suppression, whether or not you're doing so on the way out the door.
So far after reading the 4E stuff its not that bad, they have condensed the skills too much and have gone the Star Wars way with the skills but these can be 'Undone' easily enough. I personally was planning on instead of the characters getting the level by level skill bonus of half the level skill increase to instead give the characters 5 skill points to distribute among skills. Keep the trained skill bonus's because a character trained in a skill can do slightly more than an untrained character.
The trained skill choices will grant a +3 bonus( instead of the +5)but the rest of the rules will remain the same.The alignment system and accompanying personality system is among the most advanced character generation system that I've seen yet and I will be using it in my game regardless whether its a Pathfinder game, old 3.5 or other.
The powers do appear to be annoying in some places, a lot better in others ( fighters are excellent, fun in 4E by the looks of things) but the long and short of it is 4TH EDITION IS A VERY DIFFERENT GAME, same as Runequest, Gurps, LOTR and others. I'd say pathfinder is the future gaming platform for me but I'll give 4E a proper go, if I or my players arn't enjoying it then it goes on the shelf or in the Bring and Buy sales.
So endeth the lesson.
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Razz probably feels he's won this argument on the internet. And you know what they say about that. ;)
Anyway, I found the easiest way to not be worried about what's going on with 4e is to not visit that part of the boards. The day that Pathfinder RPG was announced, I basically stopped going to or posting on the 4e boards. Not that I have any disrespect for the people there, I just have no reason to care what is discussed there anymore.
Razz was, honestly, one of the worst posters I've seen here (despite his posts being amusing in a bad sort of way). And that says a lot, given the heated arguments that occurred on the 4e boards before PRPG was announced (and I am guessing some still occur since then, but I just don't read them).
I know for a fact that the Paizo folks are a LOT more forgiving of venting or rants than any other forum I've been on... I, personally, think that's a good thing but it can lead to people escalating their posts beyond acceptable limits. When those (loose) limits are reached and overstepped, action has to be taken to keep things from tipping over the brink into chaos.
Good job Paizo-board-moderator-folk-types. :)
Ya know, with the inordinate amount of mental health care professionals and counselling opportunities in our world today, I am frequently dismayed when some people do not take advantage of them.
;-)
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Ya know, with the inordinate amount of mental health care professionals and counselling opportunities in our world today, I am frequently dismayed when some people do not take advantage of them.
;-)
To do so you must be aware of your problems. But if you are, do you really need health care professionals?
A conundrum! :-D
Ya know, with the inordinate amount of mental health care professionals and counselling opportunities in our world today, I am frequently dismayed when some people do not take advantage of them.
;-)
You got that right. Thing is if you don't like something by all means make a statement but be sure its your opinion and don't waste time and energy trying to convince the rest of the world.
IT IS A GAME....if you don't find it fun don't do it and find something you do like.
Ya know, with the inordinate amount of mental health care professionals and counselling opportunities in our world today, I am frequently dismayed when some people do not take advantage of them.
;-)
Or, you could come joing a fun support group like mine! Put some of that energy to good use.
...
This place is too pro-4E?
I...
I...
*faints*
You're worried about a private company moderating their boards but turn a blind eye to an entire nation being censored?
I'm sure it's got nothing to do with turning a blind eye and everything to do with wanting to have continued access to this board.
I like chocolate milk!
I hear you like cereal, too. And have both scurvy and gingivitis. :P
(Yay, Foster's! The cartoon, not the beer.)
I just have a few things:
1) lolz
2) Paizo is a business. WoTC is a business. There is no place for sentimentalism in politics, business politics especially.
3) We are talking about a ROLEPLAYING GAME here. How opinionated can one really be?
Finally, there is a distinction between political speech and just "spewing garbage." The 1st Amendment was written to protect the former, I can't think of a single legal system that seeks to protect the later.
North Korea's? ;)
3) We are talking about a ROLEPLAYING GAME here. How opinionated can one really be?
I know a guy who almost literally believes that 3e is the work of the devil, refuses to play in 3e games and has near-explicitly stated that he believes D&D officially died in 1999 when AD&D 2e went out of print.
To be fair, I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with 3e myself (I think I'm probably going to go to Castles and Crusades -- and, no, I'm NOT leaving here in a self-indulgent schiesse-fit, :D in fact I plan to buy Pathfinder modules to convert to C&C)
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I like razz! Sorry guys, but it was entertaining to me and I am a firm believer in freedom of speech/expression. Even if that means letting some people spew some ridiculous garbage along the way.
The problem is that most people demand to be able to exercise the government imbued right of freedom of speech, but fail to excerise their god-given ability of freedom of thought.
Furthermore, Paizo as a private business has as much of a right to remove clients as they wish no less than someone has the right to free speech. Just like a sign you see in business windows "we reserve the right to refuse service"
Finally, freedom of speech is still not 100% free; like most rights and freedoms, it does come with limitations: It is act actually illegal for instance to threaten to kill someone. It is illegal to yell FIRE in a crowded building when it's not true - in order to start a panic. It is illegal to make comments of a sexual harrasment nature.
Like all things, rights and freedoms come with responsibility to not abuse them.
Now I'm not saying Razz or anyone else did or did not abuse them - but I am supportive of Paizo for moderating someone who does.
Robert
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I hate 4E. That said I would help Sebastian with his plot questions for his 4E game. I would talk rationally with a 4E supporter on the street. I want to have the right to rant(and I do) and I want 4E supporters to have the right to rant. No personal attacks, just a discussion.
The idea that Razz wants to silence a certain group or he walks is ridiculous. I think we need to have him right up a list of demands, rename the boards as Razz's Thought Board, and require anyone who wants access to hook electrodes to their crotch that can be activated by Razz anytime someone disagrees with his Creed.
I'm not saying I disagree with him but I am a bit embarrassed that he is on the same 'side' as me.....*ZAPPPP!!!!* Gaaaahhhhhh! Damn, that stings....I always hated his avatar al*ZZZAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!!* AhHHHHHHhhhhh! whoa.
I'm not saying I disagree with him but I am a bit embarrassed that he is on the same 'side' as me.....*ZAPPPP!!!!* Gaaaahhhhhh! Damn, that stings....I always hated his avatar al*ZZZAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!!* AhHHHHHHhhhhh! whoa.
Remember...think happy thoughts, or you'll be wished to the cornfield... >:D
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Finally, freedom of speech is still not 100% free; like most rights and freedoms, it does come with limitations: It is act actually illegal for instance to threaten to kill someone. It is illegal to yell FIRE in a crowded building when it's not true - in order to start a panic. It is illegal to make comments of a sexual harrasment nature.Robert
Razz isn't that bad :) Just remember that one man's "garbage" is another man's treasure.
3) We are talking about a ROLEPLAYING GAME here. How opinionated can one really be?I know a guy who almost literally believes that 3e is the work of the devil, refuses to play in 3e games and has near-explicitly stated that he believes D&D officially died in 1999 when AD&D 2e went out of print.
To be fair, I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with 3e myself (I think I'm probably going to go to Castles and Crusades -- and, no, I'm NOT leaving here in a self-indulgent schiesse-fit, :D in fact I plan to buy Pathfinder modules to convert to C&C)
I love C&C. It's a fun, very reminiscent of old school D&D, and all of my 1st, 2nd, and OD&D stuff is as easy as pie to covert to it. I get burned out on 3rd edition, and I find that C&C hits the spot whenever that happens. It's also my preferred choice to introduce young people to gaming. Let us know how your conversions go of Pathfinders stuff.
*Places smelling salts under DaveMage's nose*...
This place is too pro-4E?
I...
I...
*faints*
Ack! Football practice!
Wait....wh?
Wild, weird stuff....
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Razz isn't that bad :) Just remember that one man's "garbage" is another man's treasure.
Finally, freedom of speech is still not 100% free; like most rights and freedoms, it does come with limitations: It is act actually illegal for instance to threaten to kill someone. It is illegal to yell FIRE in a crowded building when it's not true - in order to start a panic. It is illegal to make comments of a sexual harrasment nature.Robert
I feel really sorry for that other man.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Blaah ...Blaah..BlahhAs an EvE Online player I shall respond to this post like we do on the EvE Forums....
"Can I have your stuff?"
Dude! There's ANOTHER EVE player on here! GET YOUR ASS DOWN TO THE SEVEN SWORDS THREAD!
I will no longer be continuing with any discussions here at Paizo.Have fun at Dragonsfoot, Razz. I don't think anyone cares one bit that you are "leaving." Good riddance.
Sorry, you don't speak for me.
Razz, if you're still reading this dogpile thread--and I can see why you would save yourself the trouble--let me just reiterate a point I made earlier, restated.
You obviously have a lot of passion for the game of D&D, and the way it's been played prior to 4th edition. Why not take that love of the game and pour it into the development of Pathfinder, which, in my humble opinion, is the spiritual successor to the game you've loved over the years. Even if you don't agree, there is a 3rd edition forum for you.
Just stay away from the 4th edition threads, and let go of that unhealthy anger and bitterness. No one took away the game you love; the current owners just took it in a different direction. You don't have to follow, and you don't have to stop playing your favorite version(s) either.
i know i dont post much, but....i figured this was the place. razz, and im sure that your reading these, the only truely gygaxian game ended with ad&D. the man himself said that he didnt like 3e. im sure he would like 4e even less. go to the ad&d threads. play the OD&D. thats whats gygaxian.
i like 4e. i like 3e. hell, i even like chocalate milk.
get together, drink beer, role dice
I like chocolate milk!
i very rarely laugh out loud when reading these boards. but that was funny.
Maybe we should have an “I'm Leaving Because I Am Not Getting My Way” forum. Teter?
Maybe we should have an “I'm Leaving Because I Am Not Getting My Way” forum. Teter?
~WHAPS CourtFool with a fresh Perch~ Take that, you miscreant!
Found a thesaurus I see.
Found a thesaurus I see.
~Throws the Dictionary at you~ Take that you Fool!!!
~Throws the Dictionary at you~ Take that you Fool!!!Someone call the humane society!
P.S. - for future reference, technically, Playboy is not considered a "dictionary" and a thesaraus is not a dinosaur.
I just read Playboy for the articles. Honest.
Maybe we should have an “I'm Leaving Because I Am Not Getting My Way” forum. Teter?
That actually isn't a bad idea, given the number of "I am leaving because ..." threads.
As far as the rest goes, this is the 3rd forum I've watched Razz leave from, and I'm waiting on this post to appear on the 4th. Goodbye Razz.
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You have my deepest sympathies.
That actually isn't a bad idea, given the number of "I am leaving because ..." threads.As far as the rest goes, this is the 3rd forum I've watched Razz leave from, and I'm waiting on this post to appear on the 4th. Goodbye Razz.
Sebastian offering sympathies? Let me see....yep, that is #6 on the "Ten Sure Signs of the Coming Apocalypse". Damnit! Pull yourself together man! You're better than that.
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You obviously have a lot of passion for the game of D&D, and the way it's been played prior to 4th edition. Why not take that love of the game and pour it into the development of Pathfinder, which, in my humble opinion, is the spiritual successor to the game you've loved over the years. Even if you don't agree, there is a 3rd edition forum for you.
Just stay away from the 4th edition threads, and let go of that unhealthy anger and bitterness. No one took away the game you love; the current owners just took it in a different direction. You don't have to follow, and you don't have to stop playing your favorite version(s) either.
Well said!