I've been looking at the Aasimar and trying to come up with a way to Pathfinderise the race so that it keeps the +1 level adjustment.
Current Aasimar:
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma: Aasimar are blessed with insight and personal magnetism.
Medium sized
Aasimar base speed is 30ft.
Acid, cold, electricity resistance 5.
Light (Sp): Aasimar can use light once per day as cast by a sorcerer of their character level.
+2 Racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. [this would be Perception]
Darkvision 60ft.
Outsider: Aasimar are native outsiders.
Favoured class: Paladin
Level Adjustment +1
I don't want to add a third +2 Stat boost as this seems too strong??
How about....
+ 1 Racial bonus on all Charisma based skill checks [..personal magnetism..]
..and/or
Choose one of Acid, cold or electricity and increase the resistance to 10.
..and/or
Light (Sp) to be used 3/day.
..and/or
Darkvision 120ft.
A combination of 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of these??
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I've been playing around with converting aasimars and tieflings over to PFRPG too, but why keep the +1 LA? With the (slightly) increased power level of PF races, I don't think they need the LA, especially if you change their daylight power into light.
I kept the +2 to Wis and Cha, and added -2 to Con, to bring their ability adjustments into range with the other races, and kept pretty much everything else as is, although I like your idea of having them choose a specific resistance. IMO, those changes would make them LA+0.
If you really want to keep them LA+1, don't give them an ability penalty and keep their other abilities as is, maybe with the bonus to Cha skills you mentioned. I think that would just barely make them LA+1.
The resistance thing wasn't explained very well, I was thinking that they keep resistance 5 in the two they don't bump up to 10, giving 10, 5 & 5 [their choice].
Taking away the +1 is an option. Giving a -2 to one ability score is a good start but that still leaves them with three resistance 5's and Darkvision. The Light ability or the racial bonus to perception isn’t "worth" much IMO.
The resistances are key to the race and I would like to keep them so..
LA+0
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma & -2 Constitution
Acid, cold & electricity resistance 5
Darkvision 60ft.
LA+1
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma & -2 Constitution
Resistance 10, 5 & 5 in Acid, Cold and electricity [assignment player's choice]
+2 racial bonus to Perception
+ 1 racial bonus on all Charisma based skill checks
Light 3/day
Darkvision 120ft.
??
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LA+0
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma & -2 Constitution
Acid, cold & electricity resistance 5
Darkvision 60ft.
The aasimar doesn't fit quite as well into the PRPG model as the tiefling does, since the PRPG mode is to give a +2 bonus to a mental stat and to a physical stat, and then a penalty somewhere. They've also been fairly careful to not penalize stats that are important for the favored classes of the race in question (elf rangers pretty much being the sole exception), so I wouldn't recommend a Constitution penalty either.
I'd just give them the same floating +2 that humans and half-elves get - I'd even let them keep their Perception boost, since it's not really a particularly big deal.
Alternatively you've virtually created a racial / paragon level for aasimar, which i think works better than base LA+1 (IMHO).
I'd just give them the same floating +2 that humans and half-elves get - I'd even let them keep their Perception boost, since it's not really a particularly big deal.
So you'd give them a floating +2 stat boost as well as the +2 to Wis and Cha, and the resistances, darkvision and Perception boost with no -2 to any stat?
Doesn't that make them a little stronger than the other core races though?
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I'd just give them the same floating +2 that humans and half-elves get - I'd even let them keep their Perception boost, since it's not really a particularly big deal.
So you'd give them a floating +2 stat boost as well as the +2 to Wis and Cha, and the resistances, darkvision and Perception boost with no -2 to any stat?
Doesn't that make them a little stronger than the other core races though?
No, what you would do is give them a floating +2 instead of the Wis and Cha boost. Other than the daylight spell-like ability there is nothing here that is that much more powerful than anything that any other race has. The resistances for example is not anymore powerful than an elf's immunity to sleep effects and their resistance to enchantments. So as one person suggested, if you change daylight to light then I don't see a problem with it being a +0LA race.
But don't forget that making them native outsiders gives them some other immunities (charm person, etc.)
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But don't forget that making them native outsiders gives them some other immunities (charm person, etc.)
That's pretty much a wash, though, because some of those things they'd rather not be immune to, like enlarge person, and they have some extra vulnerabilities too, such as banishment, dismissal and extra effect from spells like unholy blight.
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LA+0
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma & -2 Constitution
Acid, cold & electricity resistance 5
Darkvision 60ft.The aasimar doesn't fit quite as well into the PRPG model as the tiefling does, since the PRPG mode is to give a +2 bonus to a mental stat and to a physical stat, and then a penalty somewhere. They've also been fairly careful to not penalize stats that are important for the favored classes of the race in question (elf rangers pretty much being the sole exception), so I wouldn't recommend a Constitution penalty either.
I'd just give them the same floating +2 that humans and half-elves get - I'd even let them keep their Perception boost, since it's not really a particularly big deal.
That's actually a really good idea, one that I hadn't considered. The aasimar's bonus to two mental stats kind of threw me, since it didn't match the mental/physical bonus of the other PF races. I think the +2 floating stat is a really good solution, and one I'll be adopting. Not sure what the OP feels about that, though...
Not sure what the OP feels about that, though...
Yeah I like it!
It keeps the changes simple but does take away the original Aasimar are blessed with insight and personal magnetism flavour.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think the aasimar could survive a -2 to con myself. Optionally give him a +2 to charisma and a floating +2 like humans and half elves.
The resistances are good at low levels but quickly bottom out. 1st level "I laugh at your puny ray of frost" 9th level "hah I'm only hurt 5/6 as bad as my fellows from that cone of cold." 15th "I've been wearing this ring of energy resistance for so long, I forgot about it."
Daylight is more problematic. I agree it shoyld be simply be light.
In either event, I don't think they should be in PFRPG core.
Now if planetouched are in a 'big book o'races then make them level +1 but include the LA buy off rules
So as one person suggested, if you change daylight to light then I don't see a problem with it being a +0LA race.
Where is the Daylight reference coming from? the FRCS lists the racial ability as Light[Sp] 1/day.
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It keeps the changes simple but does take away the original Aasimar are blessed with insight and personal magnetism flavour.
What about, in addition to the Perception bump, they also get a Diplomacy bump?
That would make them: +2 to any stat; acid, fire and electricity resistance 5; darkvision 60 ft.; +2 Perception, +2 Diplomacy; light 1/day; favored classes paladin (and cleric?). Looks pretty balanced to me...
SRD gives them daylight.
Thanks for that. I just read the same in the Planar Handbook too!
Although the changes suggested are all pretty sound one thing about them keeps nagging at me and thats because of the following sentence from FRCS.
Aasimar are blessed with insight and personal magnetism
Using the floating +2 stat boost just doesn't fit with that description of Aasimar so I think I'm going to use the following..
Pathfinder Aasimar:
+1 Wisdom, +1 Charisma
Medium sized
Aasimar base speed is 30ft.
Acid, cold, electricity resistance 5.
Light (Sp): Aasimar can use light once per day as cast by a sorcerer of their character level.
+2 Racial bonus on Perception checks.
Darkvision 60ft.
Outsider: Aasimar are native outsiders.
Favoured class: Paladin
LA +0
I don't see +1's, whether using point buy or random generated ability scores, as a problem and it keeps the flavour intended by the creators IMO.
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At the risk of repeating myself,
Aasimar are blessed with insight
+2 Perception...
and personal magnetism
and +2 Diplomacy.
Using the floating +2 stat boost just doesn't fit with that description of Aasimar so I think I'm going to use the following..
Pathfinder Aasimar:
+1 Wisdom, +1 CharismaI don't see +1's, whether using point buy or random generated ability scores, as a problem and it keeps the flavour intended by the creators IMO.
The big issue with using +1s is that they are either worthless, or as powerful as getting a +2. If they're enough to bump you up to a higher ability modifier, they're as good as getting a +2 would be; if not, you might as well not have them at all. That's why they're not used in species design - they're a bad idea.
For all practical purposes, players will try to slot their point buys or rolls such that they have odd scores in Charisma and Wisdom, so that they get bumped to the next highest modifier. You might as well keep the +2/+2 - they're going to get the benefits anyway.
The big issue with using +1s is that they are either worthless, or as powerful as getting a +2. If they're enough to bump you up to a higher ability modifier, they're as good as getting a +2 would be; if not, you might as well not have them at all. That's why they're not used in species design - they're a bad idea.For all practical purposes, players will try to slot their point buys or rolls such that they have odd scores in Charisma and Wisdom, so that they get bumped to the next highest modifier. You might as well keep the +2/+2 - they're going to get the benefits anyway.
I did hear you!
You're right people will use odd numbers but using odd numbers is fine, in fact with odd numbers you gain boosts at levels 4, 8, 12 etc. when you gain bonus stat points. I often have odd numbered stats at creation for this purpose.
Giving the +2/+2 is too strong with all the other stuff for a +0LA race, something else would have to give. Thats why you suggest using the floating +2. All I'm doing is making the pluses stick to Wisdom and Charisma in keeping with the original race design.
The floating +2 is only used with "Versatile races" such as Humans and Half-Elves and isn't appropriate IMO for Aasimar.
Anyhoo, the goal here was to create usable Aasimar stats for Pathfinder and we've ended up with a +0LA race that is balanced with the other races. We may end up using a different structure and disagree on the "best" format but until Jason and his team get to Aasimar I'm going to stick with +1's, they just feel right to me and keep the stats as close to the original race as possible.
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If you go back to the original (AFAIK) source material for aasimar, the 2e Planescape Monstrous Compendium II, they had +1 Str, +1 Wis, -2 Con, infravision 60', +2 to saves vs. charm, fear, emotion, and domination effects, and half damage from heat or cold. Optionally you could take a +1 to Cha instead of Str, and swap out the resistances to fire or cold for Detect Lies, Detect Evil, and Light 1/day.
This would probably translate to Pathfinder as +2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Wis, Darkvision 60', +2 racial bonus to Will saves vs. Enchantment effects, Fire and Cold Resistance 5, Outsider (native) type, and Daylight 1/day as a spell-like, Caster Level = total Hit Dice.
Edit:
Favored Class - Paladin or Cleric, choose at character creation. Automatic Languages - Common and Celestial, Bonus Languages (any)
If you go back to the original (AFAIK) source material for aasimar, the 2e Planescape Monstrous Compendium II,
Dude !
Pathfinder is a system compatable with 3.5 not 2.0!
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Where did Aasimar and Tieflings come from? 2e, and Planescape.
My reference to the 2e version was for an idea on where to go with the stat adjustments to keep to the template, when Pathfinder races get +2 to a physical and a mental stat, and -2 to one other stat. Aasimar had a Strength bonus in 2e, so that would probably be the way to go for Pathfinder if they want to keep to the same standard for races and yet have it actually have some basis in the rules, not just picking it out of thin air.
As opposed to +1 stat modifiers and no penalty, which seems to be your idea, and if that's what you want to go for in your game, hey, ok, whatever. I don't think it's balanced, and it's not exactly the way it's been done since the launch of 3e.
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How about this:
+2 CON, +2 WIS, +2 CHA
Medium sized
Aasimar base speed is 30ft.
Acid, cold, electricity resistance 5.
Light (Sp): Aasimar can use light at will as cast by a sorcerer of their character level.
Searing light (sp): Aasimar can use searing light once a day as cast by a cleric of their character level.
+2 Racial bonus on Perception Checks
+2 Racial Bonus on Sense Motive Checks
Darkvision 60ft.
Outsider: Aasimar are native outsiders (with all that that entails, including proficiency with all martial weapons).
Favoured classes: Paladin and Cleric
Level Adjustment +1
Or this:
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution
Medium-sized
Aasimar base speed is 30-ft
Outsider (Native): Aasimar are outsiders native to the Material Plane, and thus have the outsider (native) type. They gain the extraplanar subtype when not on the Material Plane. They are not subject to spells or effects that affect only humanoids, such as charm person and dominate person.
Low-Light Vision: Aasimar can see twice as far as humans
in conditions of poor illumination.
Celestial Resistance: Aasimar gain acid, cold, and electricity resistance 5
Keen Senses: Aasimar receive a +2 bonus on sight- and sound-based Perception checks. They can make a Perception check to spot a secret or concealed door if they pass within 10 feet, regardless of whether or not they are actively looking.
Cat-Like Reflexes: Aasimar gain a +2 racial bonus to Initiative rolls.
Celestial Fortitude: Aasimar gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws to resist poison and petrification.
Favored classes: Paladin and Cleric
Level Adjustment +1
Hm, I'm just gonna go ahead and make something up, I'm new to all this in general. So here is the aasimar as written by a wandering fool.
+2 STR, +2 WIS || Aasimar are super-naturally mighty and peircingly insightful
Large sized || The angels and assorted other celestials that began the aasimar line were larger than life and filled with primal creative engery, this continues deep into the bloodline
-4 size penalty to Sneak skill checks.
+4 size bonus to Close Combat skill checks for grappling.
Lifting and carrying limits are double of those of Medium characters
Can use larger weapons than Medium characters.
Space/Reach: 3m/3m. (10ft/10ft)
Aasimar base speed is 30ft.
Protection of the Anceastor (Su):
The aasimar is protected from attacks made or effects created by fiendish creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws to themselves and anyone within 20 feet of the aasimar. This ability can be cast once per day. || The angels that bore children with the early humans made a promise to protect their desendants.
+2 Racial Bonus on Sense Motive Checks. || Aasimar can read the hearts of others.
+2 Racial Bonus on Perception Checks. || Aasimar
Outsider (Native): Aasimar are outsiders native to the Material Plane, and thus have the outsider (native) type. They gain the extraplanar subtype when not on the Material Plane. They are not subject to spells or effects that affect only humanoids, such as charm person and dominate person.
Favoured classes: Cleric and Paladin
The way I see it they need to be useful for more than just paladins, in fact this race make great tyrants, I imagine a horrible queen claiming divine right to rule, forcing her anceastor to protect her from assassins each night...but should a person of pure heart come to slay her, she'll get no help!
I'd imagine they would have more interesting features than the old pictures I've seen of them. Maybe they could have feathers for hair? Maybe they're all born with holy scriptures covering their bodies? Anyway, key words for this race are something like: Glory, Gaze, Intimating, Bright, Bold and Sausage.
They are large and in charge, a teifling standing next to one of these, players would be hard pressed to say who was more cool or badass or whatever it is that made teiflings core for 4E.
So, um, does this even work as a race?