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We're not sure yet either, to be honest. Should Hellknight be a 20-level standard class or a 10- (or 5?) level prestige class? Should it be a series of feats?
*shrug*
For now, I'd recommend going with fighter and doing everything you can to make him totally bad-ass. :D
Well it's great to here one of the guys in charge say that they have no idea either. I feel a little less stupid now.
I believe Dragon Magazine had 'alternate Paladin' versions as well, but I cna't recall which issue.
Even a Blackgaurd could work, I suppose.
And if its any help, I'd go with a ten level PrC off of fighter - I always hated the idea of level 1 'knights' (that a level 2 farmer could kill easily).
I would go for a PrC also. It makes sense next to the Red Mantis PrC and doesn't conflict with the Sable Company requirements either.
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Myself?
I'd have a Hellknight feat, named Devil's Blade or somesuch, which required a good attack bonus and maybe acceptance by the clerics of big Asmo. Anyone that has that feat can be a Hellknight.
Then, I'd have at least one 5-level PrC, such as Hellknight Devastator, which would require the Devil's Blade feat.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Since i never liked the "class-ification" of about any half-noteworthy organization in any world, i would suggest hellknight membership to mean "I am a Paladin, Fighter or some such", with maybe a feat or two specific to the group - but not a prestige class, let alone an entire base class
I vote for pretige class
Since i never liked the "class-ification" of about any half-noteworthy organization in any world, i would suggest hellknight membership to mean "I am a Paladin, Fighter or some such", with maybe a feat or two specific to the group - but not a prestige class, let alone an entire base class
Seconded.
Two words: Hellknight warlock.
I am wondering how you would stat up a low level hellknight for PFRPG. I want to throw one against my players to help establish the flavor of the setting, I'm just not sure how to write one up.
In one of the mid ROTRL's the Pathfinder story had the hero encounter a hellknight. You should be able to get some useful information from there. Sorry for the generalities, I'm at work and don't have my source material here.
As for Hellknights themselves, for the majority of members (especially lower level ones) it could be just a title, not a PrC. Hellknights with the PrC (if it exists) are among the higher ranking members.
You could differentiate between Hellknights and other with unique feats. A third level Hellknight fighter might be different from a third level regular fighter because of access to x or y feats that aren't taught to non-Hellknights.
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Contributor
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In one of the mid ROTRL's the Pathfinder story had the hero encounter a hellknight. You should be able to get some useful information from there. Sorry for the generalities, I'm at work and don't have my source material here.
The Guide to Korvosa also talks about Hellknights as 4th-level fighters (in the random encounter tables).
Pathfinder Chronicles: Organizations of Golarion.
1.) The Order of the Nail
2.) The Pathfinder Society
3.) The Sczarni
etc. etc. 32 pages. History, chain of command/organization, sample crunchy bits, sample stat blocks, hideouts/fortresses, plot hooks.
Myself?
I'd have a Hellknight feat, named Devil's Blade or somesuch, which required a good attack bonus and maybe acceptance by the clerics of big Asmo. Anyone that has that feat can be a Hellknight.
Then, I'd have at least one 5-level PrC, such as Hellknight Devastator, which would require the Devil's Blade feat.
I like this option. That way you could have Hellknight fighters, rogues, and warlocks, but still have a Hellknight prestige class (or a variety of prestige classes related to the Hellknights).
I'd do a PrC which is modelled around the most typical hellknight.
Then I'd remind everyone again that PrC and Organisation aren't the same, that you can be a hellknight (org) without levels of Hellknight.
I'm fine with a prestige class, but most of the Hellknights stomping around Korvosa shouldn't have any levels in it. Save it for the ranking members. Heck, make it a 3 or 5 level prestige class, for that matter. With the Church of Asmodeus backing them, a group of well-armed fighters in full plate carrying some infernal goodies and a ruthless belief in their law over everything else should be scary enough.
I have a question for the powers that be.
If you have someone who is wanted in Korvosa, would the Hellknights in Magnimar doing anything if they were aware of the charge? Or vice-versa?
I know that Hellknights deal in the "LAW", but do they enforce thru prisoner transportation? If they do, how do they arrange it with the local government, especially if the law that was broken in the other city is not illegal in the present city?
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Contributor
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I have a question for the powers that be.
If you have someone who is wanted in Korvosa, would the Hellknights in Magnimar doing anything if they were aware of the charge? Or vice-versa?
I know that Hellknights deal in the "LAW", but do they enforce thru prisoner transportation? If they do, how do they arrange it with the local government, especially if the law that was broken in the other city is not illegal in the present city?
I didn't know there were Hellknights in Magnimar. But then, my knowledge of that little backwater is pretty limited, I must admit. It's a nice place to visit now and then, I suppose, but not for too long.
Oh, sorry, you had a question. Right!
I'm sure Hellknights transport fugitives to wherever they are wanted, in order to stand trial. Breaking a law is breaking a law. You can run, but then the Hellknights can just add Resisting Arrest to your line of crimes.
I didn't know there were Hellknights in Magnimar. But then, my knowledge of that little backwater is pretty limited, I must admit. It's a nice place to visit now and then, I suppose, but not for too long.
Oh, sorry, you had a question. Right!
I'm sure Hellknights transport fugitives to wherever they are wanted, in order to stand trial. Breaking a law is breaking a law. You can run, but then the Hellknights can just add Resisting Arrest to your line of crimes.
How do they handle the interaction with the locals?
Cause that could be viewed as kidnapping.Hmm, yes, they are in Magnimar, they were invited by the Lord Mayor.
Mike, really, you need to travel a bit more. You seem to be getting a very Chellian attitude. Shakes his head.
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Contributor
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How do they handle the interaction with the locals?
Cause that could be viewed as kidnapping.
Wes can probably speak more to this, but they probably just arrest the guy. Being arrested is not the same as being kidnapped, unless you're unlucky and live in a foul dictatorship (like those poor Taldor people).
Hmm, yes, they are in Magnimar, they were invited by the Lord Mayor.
Mike, really, you need to travel a bit more. You seem to be getting a very Chellian attitude. Shakes his head.
Well, that seems appropriate, really, since my beloved Korvosa is still technically part of the empire. :)
I think Hell Knight should be a base Class.
Later on down the road could have 1 or 2 Hellknight Prestige Classes One for the Hellknights who want to specialize in the use of Hellish minions and magic rather then just their might. And another to further specialize their martial abilities and ability to hunt down their quarry.
Basically base Hellknight should be similar to a Paladin. A Martial class with a hint of Divine Magic.
Then a couple of 5 or 10 level prestige classes to enhance their capabilities.
Hellknight Packmaster: This prestige class would add a bit more Divine Magical Power to the Hellknight allowing him to conjur more or more powerful inernal assistance(usually Hellhounds :3 ) and some offensive spells.
Hellknight Executor: More focus on martial specialization. Maybe some info gathering/tracking help.
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There really are a lot of ways to go with hellknights, but there are a bunch of other classes that just beg for some attention that I'm looking forward to seeing too(bloatmages, acadamae graduates, pathfinders, ect).
I tend to think that hellknights would be best as fairly short prestige classes, maybe just 5 levels each, that could show the different aspects of the order. Perhaps one that is done as ranger class to emphsize tracking, one that is more fighter/combat specialist, and one that is a cleric/paladin fashion. Obviously that has conflicts with their alignment code, but truthfully the hellknight feels a lot like a paladin who focuses on law over good, taking a hellhound instead of a mount.
The other option I could see being done for them that could be pretty neat would be something like what was done with the knightly orders in the dragonlance campaign setting. Basically having the different orders that represent a different rank in the knighthood, each with their own focus on things, and allow them abilities and feats that make it easier to meet the prerequisites for the next level of knighthood.
My biggest problem with the dragonlance knighthood was that because they were such long classes, in order to advance you could never go too far in them, either you just took 2 or three levels in the lower ones to max out the top one, or you were just going to be lower rank forever. Having the lowest rank of a hellknight prc be something that characters from different backgrounds could get into at around 6th level, and having three different 5 level prestiges that sort of led into each other if you wanted your character to advance in the order would let you capstone the last class at 20th and be pretty perfect.
-Tarlane
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It looks like our DM is going to use the Knight from the PHB2 and the Paladin of Tyranny from the UA for his Hellknights. I think just using the Blackguard would work for Ranking members, without having to come up with a new PrC. But a Warlock/Knight Would be a scary Hellknight.
Or you could make an organization with the PHB2, DMG2, & Complete Champion.You could use the Domain Affiliations Law & Evil. That would work without needing a Class/PrC.
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Since i never liked the "class-ification" of about any half-noteworthy organization in any world, i would suggest hellknight membership to mean "I am a Paladin, Fighter or some such", with maybe a feat or two specific to the group - but not a prestige class, let alone an entire base class
I agree. In the Pathfinder campaign I'm running now, I use Hellknights as an organization rather than a class. For the most part, I use fighters, knights (PHBII) and the occasional cleric of mid to high level with exceptional ability scores and equipment to represent them should I need to build one for an encounter. No paladins, though. They don't all have to be evil, of course, but nothing about a Hellknight suggests "paragon of good" to me....
The other thing that I did with Hellknights to make them a little more fearsome in the world was make them all a minimum of 5th level. From 1st-4th, a prospective Hellknight is sequestered away in training, unseen by the rest of the campaign world.
So far, it's worked well. All of my players have developed a healthy respect for the Hellknights.
I would like to see them as an organization.
With two or three small prestige classes of 3 to 5 levels. This would allow a lot of variety in what you meet, but also allow certain features to shine thru.
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I think a Hellknight base class would be a little too much. The organization is too special to justify a base class. Base classes should be widely available for characters of different races, backgrounds etc. and not limited to members of a certain group.
A 5 level PrC would be cool! I love 5 Lvl PrCs!
Another option would be to introduce a chain of feats that can only be taken by Hellknights. Doing this, you'd be able to do Hellknights with different approaches like mentioned above (Ranger Hellknights for tracking down lawbreakers, Fighter Hellknights for protection and upholding of the law etc.), but would still make them recognizeable as Hellknights. But how could these feats look like? It would be cool if these would blend martial skills with the infernal aspect of the organization. One could be the ability to mark criminals with the Mark Of Asmodeus or Mark Of The Devil, which would work like Arcane Mark with the difference that it can't be erased, doesn't wear off and can only be seen by other Hellknights that have the feat. This way the Hellknights could track down criminals even decades after they escaped their clutches. Maybe these criminals don't even realize that they're marked. Just an idea...
I didn't know there were Hellknights in Magnimar. But then, my knowledge of that little backwater is pretty limited, I must admit. It's a nice place to visit now and then, I suppose, but not for too long.
Come on. City of monuments. The irespan alone is worth several visits. Marveling at the sheer scale of the thing, watching tourists dropping coppers from its top shouting "HERE TAKE IT!".... ;-)