One suggestion that keeps cropping up in the playtest threads is something along the likes of:
"While I wouldn't want to see proposed new rule XX as part of the Beta/Final, I would like to see them included in the book as variants."
Regardless of the novelty of the rule, I don't want to carry around a phonebook for a rulebook (e.g. Hero System 5th edition) and hope that Paizo does not populate the Beta with sidebars.
If we were to see an "Unearthed Arcana" for Pathfinder someday, that would be a great place for all these variants to find a home.
|
One suggestion that keeps cropping up in the playtest threads is something along the likes of:
"While I wouldn't want to see proposed new rule XX as part of the Beta/Final, I would like to see them included in the book as variants."
Regardless of the novelty of the rule, I don't want to carry around a phonebook for a rulebook (e.g. Hero Syetem 5th edition) and hope that Paizo does not populate the Beta with sidebars.
If we were to see an "Unearthed Arcana" for Pathfinder someday, that would be a great place for all these variants to find a home.
Variants take up minimal space and even if all of the most likely options were included, would add maybe 3-10 pages at most, I'd think. That's negligible and allows individual groups to tailor the game to their needs.
....
I like sidebars dammit.
:P
I want an annotated sidebar on my sidebar.
Seriously though...I do like sidebars, and have no problem if there are more than a few in the book.
I have to agree, I don't want to see too many sidebars either. I also want the optimal rules pulled out of their sections and put into an Optimal Rules chapter. I don't believe optional rules that some or most DMs won't use should be in the player sections of the book.
That would be fine too.
Perhaps they can do the chapter in sidebar format.
I don't mind sidebars... in fact, as long as they aren't on every page, I like them.
I like the thread title - perhaps thats what Paizo can call their own version of Uneratherd Arcana.
"The Big Book of Sidebars"
There are sidebars in the 3.5 DMG I just found yesterday, which suprised the crap out of me. While part of me thinks that keeping sidebars "next to" the material they relate to is a good idea, it may not work as well in practice. Having an "optional rules" section in the back might be better, as players can learn "the main rules" and know EXACTLY where to look for "the variant rules".
I favor design notes as sidebars!
I favor variant rules as an appendix!
I favor referencing the variant rule appendix in design note sidebars!
I love the sidebars!!!
I enjoy them, too--and some seem essential like the starting hit points box. But my concern is that the complete Pathfinder RPG book is meant to supplant both the PHB and the DMG. That's a sizeable amount of real estate to cover without including variants.
Also, extensive sidebars of variants in the final product would weaken the Pathfinder brand for me--giving the appearance that Paizo might be lacking in confidence and direction in their own rules.
Also, extensive sidebars of variants in the final product would weaken the Pathfinder brand for me--giving the appearance that Paizo might be lacking in confidence and direction in their own rules.
Well, that would be one way of looking at it.
I would see them so confident of their product that they have no issue with putting in some of the variants that their fans and customers have been lobbying/playtesting for.
A final decision has to be made on several subjects, and Paizo will make their decision. But there is a lot of people who would like to see Favored class give a skill rank rather than an HP. Others would rather see 4 skill ranks as a minimum, other want them to stay as is. Others..... I could go on, but most are small variants and deal more with style of play than altering the basics of the game. Would it really matter/bother you if a few of them are put in the book?
Would it really matter/bother you if a few of them are put in the book?
A few of them? Not at all. Something like the 1st-level hit points options sidebar seems entirely fitting in the final book.
But I don't want to see one at every "decision point", i.e. races, classes, skills, feats, combat, magic, etc. That would say to me that Pathfinder's vision of 3.75 is unclear or that it has become nothing more than a giant-sized Unearthed Arcana for 3.5 itself---which is not what I think Paizo intends it to be.
PFRPG should have variant rules - about as many as the 3.5 core rules.
For everything else, let them do their own Unearthed Arcana (with a different name, of course) filled to the brim with rules variants.
|
|
Given that the Pathfinder book will combine the PHB, DMG and MM, and will necessarily focus primarily on the PHB, I expect the GM section will be about as heavy as that in the D20 Modern book, and most other single-core-book systems.
I'm not holding my breath for extensive rules, let alone extensive optional rules. But I will happily shell out $20 for a Game Master Guide as thick as the average issue of Pathfinder if it contains nothing but optional rules and expanded campaign rules.
Since the core book won't be able to fit in as many magic items either, I hope we'll see magic item compendiums as well, with hopefully some improved rules for magic item creation.
|
|
PFRPG should have variant rules - about as many as the 3.5 core rules.
Leave them out or give them their own section, don't clutter the PHB chapters with any.
For everything else, let them do their own Unearthed Arcana (with a different name, of course) filled to the brim with rules variants.
I'm fine with optional rules, I just don't think they should be side by side with the "core rules." It makes variant rules as valid to use as the "core rules."
And they are, but they aren't.
Paizo isn't going to be designing products around their variant rules, they're going to stick to the basic rules, just like the have with Pathfinder so far. Pathfinder stuff is designed to be used with the PHB, DMG, and MM.. not ToB: Book of Nine Swords. This has been stated many times. I doubt they'll consider all the alternate rule possibilities when 3P takes over all the product lines.
PFRPG should have variant rules - about as many as the 3.5 core rules.Leave them out or give them their own section, don't clutter the PHB chapters with any.
Did I say anything about clutering the players' sections with them? If they're done like 3e, they'll be found in the GM's sections
Pathfinder stuff is designed to be used with the PHB, DMG, and MM.. not ToB: Book of Nine Swords.
Are you sure you wanted to quote me? Because I haven't mentioned ToB anywhere. I went and checked.
I was talking about a Pathfinder version of Unearthed Arcana, where they could park their ideas about rules variants, use the open content from UA, and all that.
And Paizo has used stuff from there in the past. Not all that often, but it's there. For example, the war college fighter from the Gazetteer bears some resemblance to the Thug fighter variant.
Future PF products that will use the PF rules instead of 3e could occasionally refer to that book instead of UA, with relevant information reprinted as usual, and the PFUA could be open like UA.
Choice is good.
A big book is good, if it has an index and a clear structure.
A printable web resource of alternate rules, edits and other gems from the editorial process would be sweet.
Sidebars are better than art. If they have to choose, I would hope that the designers will give us what they think best, and I doubt that we will see a lot of variant rules. Just some very good ones.
I think the sidebars are a heck of a lot more useful in the playtest phase than they would be in the finished book. I would personally prefer an official stance on the various rules rather than a bunch of variant options. I think its important with all the modules as well as the monthly adventure path, that the game can have a single voice with regard to the rules. Certainly everyone will house rule everything. I mean that's granted. No use gumming up the game with a bunch of rules that may or may not be used by any particular group. It just bodes ill for writers down the line.
Sidebars are better than art.
YES!!! I'd happily do without any art at all except on the cover, if it meant more sidebar-y goodness inside!
