Greetings all.
Looking for some constructive suggestions from others who are also running this adventure. I've been running EtCR for over a year now (roughly 25+ sessions) and after many character deaths we're nearing the adventure's conclusion.
I'm curious as to how DMs dealt with Strahd's reaction to the PCs severing his connection to the land via the wilderness fanes. The adventure doesn't really address how Strahd would react to the characters once they start re-consecrating the shrines to the three Barovian saints. Did anyone have the Count try to prevent the PCs from achieving this goal and if so, how did they handle it and to what extent.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
My advice :
Don't run it. Don't play it.
That's almost as bad as Undermountain or any other infamous and annoying so-called super-campaigns.
These things are overwhelming with cliches and stereotypes, badly written and structured.
I never understood how these campaigns became famous.
But that's personal opinion. Not flaming or trolling.
Tastes and colors ;)
He's played 25 session now and is about to finish it.
I dont think "Dont run it" is good advice at this point. :)
Sorry I havent played it yet. I havent even had the time to read them yet honestly.
Just thought the advice the above poster left was funny. :)
I own all 4 expedition books so I hope they are cool.
I was joking, of course ;)
And it's just my personal opinion, nothing more.
I hope the OP won't take it wrong.
/peace :)
He's played 25 session now and is about to finish it.
I dont think "Dont run it" is good advice at this point. :)
Thats what happens when you rush to respond without fully reading the OP ;)
Anyway, I found the adventure to be good, but at the same time annoying for not addressing how to deal with the party's actions pertaining to some pretty major plot hooks such as this one.
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I'm running this right now, actually, we're just about done. They got rid of Strahd last session so now it's just clean-up et al next time.
As far as the shrines go I used the encounters as described for the most part. I decided that Strahd himself wouldn't ever be seen outside the castle - it's not his style - so threw some Strahd lackey's at them as they progressed. Alot of "You have angered the Master with your meddling vays!" Very campy, which the whole thing is anyway.
-Pete
As far as the shrines go I used the encounters as described for the most part. I decided that Strahd himself wouldn't ever be seen outside the castle - it's not his style - so threw some Strahd lackey's at them as they progressed. Alot of "You have angered the Master with your meddling vays!" Very campy, which the whole thing is anyway.
I don't know. I agree with it being beneath Strahd to show up in person to stop the PCs reaching the first two fanes, but have a hard time believing that he wouldn't personally take action against the party before they severed his connection from the third and final shrine.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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First, let me say that I'm impressed you toughed it out. I have it only because I'm a Ravenloft fan (Halfling Vistani? Feh)
As to how he'd react, I'd suggest it depends on how long between a power disruption and their attack. If he has days or weeks, I'd guess he'd retreat to his lab to research a new spell or 3, or animate some Strahd Zombies (bodies of former PCs?)to go after them. I'd play him as "it's urgent but I've time." when the first goes down, launch some "I'll get them and their pesky dog too!" plans when #2 goes down and "(un)Holy #$^#$#$, I'd better do something drastic." when #3 goes down
Not to thread-jack..but what is so bad about the "Expedition to..." series?
And isnt EtCR just an upgrade of the 1st edition mod?
How different is it for it to go from one of the best adventures of all time to something that doesnt seem so well received?
First, let me say that I'm impressed you toughed it out. I have it only because I'm a Ravenloft fan (Halfling Vistani? Feh)
Yeah, I know. I ignored a lot of the updates to the NPCs (i.e. Madame Eva as a hag)and stuck with the original I6 adventure and kept the vistani and Eva human.
As for your comments on the fanes, thats pretty much how I would think Strahd would react. With the first fane he wouldn't be to concerned and would assume that the fane's guardian would be enough to stop them. If they were successful, I would imagine that we send some minions to intercept them from reaching the second. With the completion of consecrating the second fane I would feel that Strahd would take drastic measures and personally get involved with stopping the PCs from reaching the third and final fane.
Not to thread-jack..but what is so bad about the "Expedition to..." series?
And isnt EtCR just an upgrade of the 1st edition mod?
How different is it for it to go from one of the best adventures of all time to something that doesnt seem so well received?
I can't speak for the other Expedition adventures which I don't own, but some of the updated material in EtCR attempted to integrate the gothic feel of I6 and blend it with the high fantasy of other campaign settings such as the Forgotten Realms or Ebberon which some found appalling.
Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)
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Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)
I tried running it but we ran into a TPK twice in two sessions and after that my players lost interest in playing. So sorry never got as far as you. My players managed to do two of the fanes but we ended when they died to the babaus of the Mountain fane. I hadn't planned on using any interference from Strahd other than what was written but now that you mentioned it, that would have been a good idea. Sorry I can't be anymore help.
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Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)
There is a absolute ton of problems in that particular module. I suggest that you dig around online for the errata. I ran it through the first time without looking for errata, three TPK's and a lot of confusion on my part reading through the module twice. WotC didn't put out anything official that I could find, but there are quite a few spots online that have a decent listing of errors and what to do to fix. Enworld for one.
After finding all of the errata I could online. It actually runs much smoother with less problems.
I redid the maps to match up hallways and tower entrances and exits so it was easier to follow for the DM side. There are some rooms that are empty, I would suggest you come up with something descriptive for those rooms, or just make the rooms disappear if you are running low on time.
My other suggestion, lose the teleport traps. It became a real headache DM wise, and the players were not having fun.
To speed up play, I fleshed out the fortunes ahead of time and made notes regarding the outcome of the cards drawn.
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Not to thread-jack..but what is so bad about the "Expedition to..." series?
And isnt EtCR just an upgrade of the 1st edition mod?
How different is it for it to go from one of the best adventures of all time to something that doesnt seem so well received?
Sorry to say this, but lack of editing. EtCR was, IMHO, not edited.
It reads as a rush job. It was extremely disappointing.I loved the 1st edition mod, campaign setting 2nd edition, etc. but this was a kick in the teeth. Almost every single stat block in the mod has an error.
If you can find all of fan based errata, since apparently WotC doesn't want to put out anything official, it is more than a dozen pages of errors.
Good luck.
I own it, but have not run it or played through it. I think there are several reasons why EtCR has not been well-received, plus I have some of my own observations that seem to make it difficult to use in whole.
First, one absolutely must not discount the authors of the original I6 - Weis and Hickman, who spawned a cottage industry of fantasy books, most of which were well-written. As authors, they told a compelling story. Part of the classic feel of I6 comes from the oft-overlooked ability of the adventure designers to incorporate literary devices into the backstory. The module was well-conceived as a story, featured a well-developed antagonist, introduced unique games elements and drew upon centuries of western literary device.
On the other hand, who wrote EtCR? The authors may be creative DMs, but I cannoot speak to how many compelling literary works they have since produced. Very few people could capture the spirit of Ravenloft like Weis and Hickman.
Additionally, the delve format really turned off a fair number of people. I find it annoying to read one-third ofhte story here, flip to another third of the story there, then search for the final third in a completely different spot. Were this a purely tactical game, that might fly, but introducing wargame tactics into the archetypal story module really skews the Gothic feel to something... lesser.
Finally, there's another reason I envision the module to be hard to run. There seems to be a trend to throw lots of CR [party level + 4] encounters to making it "challenging" and supposedly "memorable". I see this everywhere, from the adventure paths to modules and, well, maybe it's a breakdown in CR or maybe in design philosophy, but there are a lot of TPKs in these adventures. I believe many designers fell they have to make it hard to account for the min-max players. With the advent of 3.x, there are a lot more rules, and hence a lot more opportunity for abuse of rules.
In 1st ed. players had to use their brains to defeat the challenges, and still the DM could flat out say you succeed or you fail. Now, there seems to be a lot more number-crunching and less DM adjudication, ostensibly in the interest of fairness. Still, all those numbers detract from the story, and given how a certain percentage of players of these type games obsess over numbers, a perceived need by the authors to overload their encounters to make sure it's hard.
As a smart guy, I could take any AP adventure or Pathfinder module or Expedition, or nearly any recently published adventure and turn in into TPK after TPK simply by using smart tactics. Toss in EtCR where the bad guy is a genius with pretty much unlimited scrying, and I have no reason not to pull punches or play dumb. And slaughtering PCs every session just isn't fun for most people (caveat: I have played in games where the entire party is repeatedly slaughtered only to have the last survivor use a wish or something similar to start the battle over again, repeatedly, until the PCs won - it's fun once in a great while, just ot beat the odds). I understand beating the odds holds a great appeal, but examining the math, beating the odds doesn't happen very often. Facing encounter after encounter where one has to beat the odds means a lot of losing, even with smart players and maxed out builds and all the hokiness that the wealth of "numbers" of 3e brought with it. To offset this, I usually bump up the characters a level and allow them builds that effectively add +1 ECL to a "standard" adventuring group. Even this usually only evens the odds.
Back to EtCR, parts of it look like a lot of fun, both as player and DM. But the parts that are "too much", "too sparse in atmosphere", or "too many numbers" really detract from it. It's not the DnD of the early 80s where Ravenloft ruled as king of adventures. It's a different game, and it simply cannot capture that 1st ed feel.
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Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)
I'm about to start prepping it for my group, so I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread!
It will be their "big purpose" for being brought to Golarion - currently I'm leaning toward Ravenloft (the demiplane, that is) manifesting on Golarion (in and around Droskar's Crag) as part of a plot by Lamashtu. Desna brings our intrepid adventurers to Golarion to counter the threat of Strahd and thwart Lamashtu's plans to blah blah blah etc. ;)
( haven't got all the fiddly bits sorted out yet )
I started the Exp. Ravenloft module and was really enjoying it for what if offered. I owned the original as well and about the only thing I missed from the original was the carriage scene. Personally, I thought the return to version was excellent. If I had any criticisms, it would be that the land ties with Strahd were a bit complicated to follow and Madam Eva I would have made a vistani human again. The worst thing about the module is the delve format, but that is a design issue versus a well written plotline issue. I think the module is excellent and encourage others to check it out. It's like any other module, the more you tailor it to your campaign, the more you are likely to enjoy it.
My group has taken a hiatus from D&D but I have hopes of returning. The very last thing that happened is the Paladin dropped her magical sword in the river and lost it. Strahd's now attempting to acquire it before she is able to retrieve it. One more step in making it personal. She had a very nice sword. She also has a history of throwing magical swords in rivers (sigh) some people's paladins.
Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)
I'm DMing it, but you're further along than me (plus I'm not running the whole thing).
I'd be interested in some links to the fan-created errata people have mentioned, but I suppose I can try googling it someday.
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Wow, no other EtCR Dms out there? ;)I'm DMing it, but you're further along than me (plus I'm not running the whole thing).
I'd be interested in some links to the fan-created errata people have mentioned, but I suppose I can try googling it someday.
Here are links to the ones that I started out with, I am sure there are more out there.
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As a classic Ravenloft fan and Paizonian I figured I'd throw out a few Paizo links for Ravenloft.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft720mi.
-W. E. Ray
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** spoiler omitted **
As a classic Ravenloft fan and Paizonian I figured I'd throw out a few Paizo links for Ravenloft.
-W. E. Ray
Welcome back to the boards. err.. fixed them.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft720mi
** spoiler omitted **
As a classic Ravenloft fan and Paizonian I figured I'd throw out a few Paizo links for Ravenloft.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/archives/expediti onToCastleRavenloft720mi.
-W. E. Ray
Welcome back to the boards Molech. I've nothing to add to the on going conversation (sadly). But I am reading with interest. This is a module I'll probably pick up in the near future.
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Thanks for the welcome -- I wonder how many folks actually remember me.
As for buying the mod, really, use the same money to buy the original I6: Ravenloft instead. It's more than just worth it. If you want to get one of the new hardcover WotC adventure books, get Greyhawk.
It may sound like Paizo propaganda but truely, EtCG is the only one worth owning and it has the same "look" as all the others.
-W. E. Ray