Alchemy is special because it doesn't require the ability to cast arcane or divine spells--anyone can learn and use the Alchemy skill the exploit the fantastic properties of certain objects: plants, minerals, and creature parts, for example. That makes alchemy useful to all classes.
Among the most ridiculous and pointless rule changes that came about in 3.5 was limiting the Alchemy skill to spell casters only. What with Wizards, Sorcerers and Clerics at 2 skill points per level no real spell caster class could afford to spare the points for it short of Bards.
Please, please, don't let this retarded rule be kept in Pathfinder. I hope to someday be able to legally by R.A.W. play my favorite rogue character, a max-ranked master of Alchemical mischief and surprise.
I'll second this.
At the least, experts should have access to it as well.
All classes should be able to study/use it, but I can see why casters would be especially good at alchemy.
Thirded. I get that some alchemy is supernatural, and not appropriate for totally mundane concepts, so don't give mundane characters Alchemy!
But there's no reason a fighter, rogue, or expert who wanted to couldn't brew up some alchemist fire.
ETA: Making Brew Potion available to noncasters would also be awesome.
Why not roll Alchemy into Knowledge (arcana)?
I'm fine with Alchemy as a Craft skill. Though I do agree the spellcaster requirement could be dropped.
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Thirded. I get that some alchemy is supernatural, and not appropriate for totally mundane concepts, so don't give mundane characters Alchemy!
But there's no reason a fighter, rogue, or expert who wanted to couldn't brew up some alchemist fire.
ETA: Making Brew Potion available to noncasters would also be awesome.
I'm also ok with a craft (alchemy) being open to other classes, the idea of a rogue who makes alchemical surpises is intriguing.
I'd have to, respectfully, disagree with the idea of brew potion being available to non-casters however.
Bring back? Did Pathfinder change it?
As I'm almost 100% sure Craft is a class skill for all classes.
And Craft Alchemy falls under that.
Before that Alchemy as a skill was not available to all classes.
I'm not sure what you're referring to.
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There is a question that I hope someone might answer. In the Pathfinder RPG, craft subsets aren't listed. As I read Perform and Profession, they are now serving as one skill and no subsets. If this is the route craft is going, then alchemy shouldn't be included. However, if there remain subsets, then I haven't a problem with craft (alchemy). If you are talking about a non-spellcaster brewing magic potions, then how do you account for imbuing a potion with a spell? (That's the shortcoming of craft (alchemy) as I read it. Granted, if alchemy was included in Knowledge (arcana), then you still have that problem.)
Bring back? Did Pathfinder change it?
As I'm almost 100% sure Craft is a class skill for all classes.
And Craft Alchemy falls under that.
Before that Alchemy as a skill was not available to all classes.
I'm not sure what you're referring to.
NO... Craft remains unchanged in Pathfinder. But, if you check the Craft skill in the PHB (under the special heading), it does state the spellcaster restriction.
[X] Remove spellcaster requirement from Craft (Alchemy].
[ ] Leave spellcaster requirement at Craft (Alchemy].
Put me in for removing the spellcaster requirement.
Why, if given enough gold, couldn't a fighter go down to a shop and purchase Red Dragon spit glands (the same ones a wizard might use to make ink to write Fireball into his spellbook)* to ground up and make some alchemist's fire?
The character doesn't have to have access to spells directly for alchemy in a world filled with magic if he can seize it from a magical source.
* No, that's not an official rule - just a made-up example to get my point across.
Wow, I feel stupid. I never noticed that. I like non spellcaster alchemists, to yeah, I'm for changing this as well.
Yes, Alchemy for everyone!
Yes! Restore our 3.0 NPC Expert alchemists!
BOOYAH! (I meant "Yes" for the alchemie stuff. Just got carries along, sorry. Brew potions should and will surely stay a caster only thing)
i vote yes as well
Good catch Timespike
Furthermore, this alchemy could be used to crafting some herbs into healing or something like that. I like to have additional ways to produce stuff.
It's been done, back in 3.0 Tome and Blood had some alchemy items listed that included Healing Salve, an herbal salve which when used as part a successful heal check added an additional 1d8 to amount of hit points restored.
While I don't want to start a discussion, I really would like to see Profession (Herbalist/Apothecary) merged into the Heal skill, and see some healing salves, and antidotes made through this feat.
Remember: Healing arts in the medievil times was done mostly through the use of herbs and salves, so a "normal" will know quite a bit about that.
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I'm fine with Alchemy as a Craft skill. Though I do agree the spellcaster requirement could be dropped.
I agree. Although I *would* prefer making it a Feat ('Craft Alchemical Items') that is available to all (who would meet the prerequisites: Craft (Alchemy) 5 ranks or Profession (Herbalist) 5 ranks)). This Feat would also allow you to manufacture Poisons and Drugs, if you want to.
And definitely there should 'Craft Mechanical Traps' -feat in the game (with the prerequisites of 8 ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and/or Knowledge (Achitecture and Engineering)).
Thoughts?
Wow, I feel stupid. I never noticed that. I like non spellcaster alchemists, so yeah, I'm for changing this as well.
Wow, count me double for that.
Fixed the typo
I've always suspected the change went through like this:
"Alchemy isn't a Craft skill? That's silly. Switch it to Craft (Alchemy)."
...weeks later....
"Whoa, wait, look at all these thieves and fighters with ten ranks of Craft (Alchemy). That's supposed to be a class skill for the spellcasting classes, not everybody. Let's limit who can make stuff with it."
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I've always suspected the change went through like this:
"Alchemy isn't a Craft skill? That's silly. Switch it to Craft (Alchemy)."
...weeks later....
"Whoa, wait, look at all these thieves and fighters with ten ranks of Craft (Alchemy). That's supposed to be a class skill for the spellcasting classes, not everybody. Let's limit who can make stuff with it."
You know, I think you're spot-on!
I also don't think it's a problem. Very few people use alchemical items past level 3-4 anyway, so if the Fighter wants to spend one of his 2 skill points per level on it, good for him! And if Rogues can make poison, why not acid or alchemist's fire?
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Anyone with Craft(alchemy)should be able to make alchemical items.
I would rather see alchemical items (poisons and drugs included) made only by characters with 'Craft Alchemical Item'-feat. The difference to any "mundane" items (i.e. all he items made with other Craft "sub-skills") is that alchemical items offer mechanical advantage in situations -- just like potions and magical items, all of which are done by taking Item Creation Feats.
And Craft (Poisonmaking) is odd, because to me it would feel logical to assume that you need at least *some* knowledge about herbs and alchemy in order to manufacture poisons.
I remember one of the major changes from 3.0 to 3.5 was removal of the restricted skills, such as Forgery. It was a good change, and I don't know anyone who disagrees with it. I have no idea why Craft (alchemy) was exempt from this change.